** Police officer shot dead in Armagh

prinz

realismpol wrote: »

And then you'll have 500,000 hostile unionists carrying out bombings and attacks on gardai and other republic of ireland based forces ....

That was also the speciality of the various IRA groups and splinter groups.

People need to remember they are not only against the UK, these groups are against the Republic of Ireland as a state as well. I would like to see a United Ireland, if the majority want it, and by peaceful means. However hell will freeze over before I allow this country or the UK be dictated to by murdering cowards of any terrorist grouping, republican or otherwise. I love democracy. And in this case the people have already spoken.

irishgrover

yoshytoshy wrote: »

When things like this happen ,I sometimes find myself saying things I shouldn't. It's more got to do with the chaotic nature of things ,than my views on things.

Condolences to the families of the people killed ,hopefully we can all move on without letting this get the better of us.

+ 1

Mr.Micro

Once again a tiny minority of individuals wreak havoc and cold blooded murder and destroy the lives of the victims, their families and the community as a whole, bringing back fear, reprisals and tensions, added to this damage to the economy. Instead of moving forward these people are entrenched in the past , often citing history and people they never knew and cannot bear to see Ireland at peace. These are the real traitors to our country IMO, serving their own ends and motives, no better than gangsters.

KevR

prinz wrote: »

However hell will freeze over before I allow this country or the UK be dictated to by murdering cowards of any terrorist grouping, republican or otherwise. I love democracy. And in this case the people have already spoken.

Very well said!

RDM_83

Mean in this in the way by calling something a "cowardly attack" your just using stereotypical phrases that preclude proper analyses. Robert Fisk in one of his books made the point that a terrorist attack is always called "cowardly" even if it is against a military target on a suicide mission.
ps not saying this wasn't a cowardly attack

Anyway this will fade out of media outcry, the loyalists have been shooting each other and at the cops for years since the GFA much as members of the British establishment would love to use this to remilitarise the North the Middle East using up the troops and helicopters and the signing over off majority of bases lands to local councils precludes it.
ps thank god they didn't shoot a UVF man

realismpol

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Once again a tiny minority of individuals wreak havoc and cold blooded murder and destroy the lives of the victims, their families and the community as a whole, bringing back fear, reprisals and tensions, added to this damage to the economy. Instead of moving forward these people are entrenched in the past , often citing history and people they never knew and cannot bear to see Ireland at peace. These are the real traitors to our country IMO, serving their own ends and motives, no better than gangsters.

Yeah i think you hit the nail on the head. There is much evidence out there to suggest that many people exist amongst us who are purely pyschopaths and just have an urge to kill no matter what. The affonts and excuses they use i.e al qaida, real ira, taliban to the rest of logical thinking people are farcical but to them they are just veils used to placate their bloodlust. Some people just like to kill thats just the reality of it.

prinz

RDM_83 wrote: »

Mean in this in the way by calling something a "cowardly attack" your just using stereotypical phrases that preclude proper analyses. Robert Fisk in one of his books made the point that a terrorist attack is always called "cowardly" even if it is against a military target on a suicide mission.

Whats your point? By definition a terrorist attack is not desgined to be an end to the means, but a means to an end. It's very object being to create fear and install terror in all who stand in it's way. I couldn't care less what you think is stereotypical or not. Maybe you should take a highlighter to Robert Fisk and make a note of his use of stereotypes ( better still take 7 or 8 hightlighters - you'll need them all. ) A suicide bomber who hides his bomb, and blows it up next to a patrol of footsoldiers is still a coward. A proper analysis indicates, gunning down two pizza delivery men and four unarmed soldiers, then calmy walking over and executing the wounded soldiers, and lying in wait for a policeman to respond to call. What is that if it isnt cowardly?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

do you think people who sit on ships and fire missiles, or fly in planes and drop bombs are cowards too? or is it a happy coincidence that all the cowards are on our enemies side.

djpbarry

FTA69 wrote: »

As I said on another thread, the British Army have no right to be in this country...

That's probably why the British Army are not in this country.

FTA69 wrote: »

No, what's "lazy" is you comparing the resistance to the Brits colonising this country with reactionary murder of civilians based on their religion by British-backed death squads.

Murder is murder is murder. But anyway, you might explain what is being “resisted” in murdering a pizza delivery man?

prinz

Theres a difference between fighting a war, and shooting policemen in the head as they sit in a car.

I'm not getting into this again. You cannot equate the legitimate armed forces of a state, and terrorist scum. I don't agree with every war going on, or that has gone on. But I know a coward when I see one, no matter what side they're on.

As an add-on there have been many examples of cowardly murderous acts performed by different armies of the world. However as this thread concerns the unfortunate PSNI officer, that act was as cowardly as the double (so far) killing on the weekend

turgon

Captain Mords Spiced Bum wrote: »

do you think people who sit on ships and fire missiles, or fly in planes and drop bombs are cowards too? or is it a happy coincidence that all the cowards are on our enemies side.

There cowards by virtue of the fact theyre to afraid to admit that the way of life they lead is detested by everyone and not wanted by anyone.

A brave man was one who refused to take up the pistol when his family was attacked, reserving himself for pacifist action only.

Zambia

Sadly without work and jobs within easy reach, more young people will fall into this line of thinking. They will not be happy with their lot and want to fight someone for whatever reason gives them a sense of identity.

The main piority now is for the ramping up of all operations to keep hauls like this one out of the hands of these young men.



If not you guys are screwed, as the mindset up north changed very little where it mattered.

P. Breathnach

turgon wrote: »

There cowards by virtue of the fact theyre to afraid to admit that the way of life they lead is detested by everyone and not wanted by anyone...

With great regret, I have to disagree. There are some who support what they do. A number of people who have posted in this thread seem to lean that way.

Cardinal Blue

Northern Ireland is such a quagmire that it was never really resolved to everyone’s satisfaction. In a way given the situation and history of the north it’s impossible to keep everyone happy , as such simmering resentments will always lie under the surface, passed down from one generation to the next. Hopefully the worse is behind us and this will not escalate further.
I think the real danger will lie if the security services over react as the killers want, or that if innocent people(civilians) are killed , this will lead to retaliation from the other side (ie:tit for tat killings). If that happens the situation could spiral out of control. Hopefully all sides will give careful consideration to any actions they take before proceeding with what needs to be done.
But having said that and given the history of northern ireland, I think the problems will never fully go away , and may resurface again in 10, 20 or even a 100 years time.

prinz

Cardinal Blue wrote: »

I think the real danger will lie if the security services over react as the killers want, or that if innocent people(civilians) .

I agree with what you have said above. I'd just like to say that as far as I'm concerned a family-man and career PSNI officer, responding to a womans call for police assistance without regard to his or his colleagues welfare is an 'innocent' man, murdered because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Or as some reports have suggested because he was in the right place at the right time because he was specifically targeted by these scum.

Can'tseeme

Make no mistake about it. This an attempt to undermine Sinn Fein's position in the peace process. Especially since Sinn Fein signed up to policing. The transfer of policing powers to this island which look like will happen this autumn, will be a big plus to help Sinn Fein get community support for policing in Republican/nationalist areas. Dissidents are trying to put Sinn Fein between a rock and a hard place. They're trying to put them standing side by side with the crown forces and Unionists.

The sooner these idiots are rounded up the better. They've no support in any community in Ireland, there is an alternative solution to politics in the North and a proper political path for nationalist/republicans to follow. With equality for the people in the north.

This is also no excuse for loyalists to get involved.

Wheely

Wheely wrote: »

I love the way you choose the weaker arguments to respond to. Why not respond to oscar bravo. Where was Lloyd George and his threat of immediate and terrible war in 1998 when both the Republic and Northern Ireland voted in favour of retaining the partition, in our case by amending our Constitution. Pure democracy alright!

FTA-Waiting for an answer!!!!!

prinz

Wheely keep waiting :rolleyes: the one man one vote only applies when we say what scum want to hear. Vote any other way and their republican ideals go out the window and the voice of the majority falls on deaf ears.

Moocawn

These thugs want an end to British rule in Northern Ireland. A large percentage of our exports go to the U.K. We cannot function without them and at this stage are happy with the ways things are. No one wants to go back to the ways thing were pre good friday agreement and if these people aren't caught soon there is a real risk of this happening.

prinz

Traitors. Not even traitors as they dont recognise this state. I'd call them enemies of the state and they should be hunted down as such.

Liam Byrne

What worries me is that those involved are standing over their murders.....when they murdered people like Jerry McCabe, the people of Omagh, etc, they always had some half-assed excuse or whatever.....

Hopefully that's not a sign that they truly don't give a b****x what the majority of people think of them.....

As for the poster who said these scum want to see Sinn Fein standing with the unionists, etc.....that's typical of the mindset of apologists and ****-stirrers. I'm not saying the poster is one (they may well have merely meant that that's the mindset of the murderers, not the poster themselves).

The fact is that if SF position themselves as being completely against violence and criminality, it shouldn't matter who they're "joining" in that stance.

I mean, if there's an anti-abortion group or something that doesn't agree with crime, and you don't agree with crime, it doesn't mean you've joined the anti-abortion group, does it ?

RiverWilde

Irlbo wrote: »

So you are disgusted by the murder of British soldiers and sercurity services,but advocate the murder of Irish republicans,your some tulip,tell you what,take a trip up to West Belfast and tell some of the residents how you feel about republicans and your ideas of having the SAS murder them,see how long you remain intact,theres a ferry leaving the harbour for Britain tommorow,go home

Get a life!

The democratic will of the people has spoken - namely the end of terrorism and the adoption of democracy as the way civilized people do things.

It is a blatant insult to nationalists to refer to these murdering bastards by that name.

So long as the majority of people in the North want to remain part of the UK that's how it will remain. If you don't like that's just tough.

Riv

fortuneteller

Did anyone hear the Joe Duffy show today?Some bleedin dub was on telling joe that he,and a few of his skanger mates have applied to join the psni, and join in the fight against the Real IRA.Ive heard it all now!

irishgrover

Irlbo wrote: »

So you are disgusted by the murder of British soldiers and sercurity services,but advocate the murder of Irish republicans,your some tulip,tell you what,take a trip up to West Belfast and tell some of the residents how you feel about republicans and your ideas of having the SAS murder them,see how long you remain intact,theres a ferry leaving the harbour for Britain tommorow,go home

not that I'm advocating the murder of anyone by anyone, but in the mindset of the republican movement it always seems to revert back to the fact that if you don't agree with their ideology, you don't belong here, you must be a west Brit, why don't you go back there... (regardless of who you are or where your are from)

Can'tseeme

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What worries me is that those involved are standing over their murders.....when they murdered people like Jerry McCabe, the people of Omagh, etc, they always had some half-assed excuse or whatever.....

Hopefully that's not a sign that they truly don't give a b****x what the majority of people think of them.....

As for the poster who said these scum want to see Sinn Fein standing with the unionists, etc.....that's typical of the mindset of apologists and ****-stirrers. I'm not saying the poster is one (they may well have merely meant that that's the mindset of the murderers, not the poster themselves).

The fact is that if SF position themselves as being completely against violence and criminality, it shouldn't matter who they're "joining" in that stance.

I mean, if there's an anti-abortion group or something that doesn't agree with crime, and you don't agree with crime, it doesn't mean you've joined the anti-abortion group, does it ?

Mate, you got me wrong there. I'm glad to see Sinn Fein standing side by side with Unionists to show a united front against what happened. I'm a supporter of the Sinn Fein strategy on accountable policing, that represents all communities in the north and policing powers transfered from London to Belfast.

My point is, dissidents are trying to disrupt this, to try and show that Sinn Fein are not 'true republicans' as they see it and are taking the side of the crown forces, instead of republicans.

Complete b*ll*cks of course but it's the fact that policing is close to being nailed down here, that has the dissidents coming out of their holes again.

GuanYin

MODERATOR NOTE

I really don't care about which side you take on this issue. There a couple of things that are not OK in this forum.

One of those is glorifying the murder or celebrating/wishing/triumphing the murder of anyone.

I'm not even going to think twice about banning someone from this forum.

We can all discuss this like adults. I expect people to discuss the issue like human beings too.

There will be a forum announcement to reflect this.

junder

its one of lifes terrible ironys that more people die in the name of rightousness and justice then ever die in the name of evil, its a sad fact that these 3 men were killed in the name of the republic and therefor in the mindset of the killers rightouslly killed. I am extremely angered that 3 of my collegues have been murdered, espically those 2 soliders who were hours away from being deployed to afghan, bad enough that those soliders and thier familys were worried about thier tour in afghan, but to then die within thier own nation is a disgrace and i am sure thier familes are struggling to get thier heads round that. However i for one will not give in to rightous anger and i will be imploring my community to do the same.
You can justify the action of the RIRA or the CIRA overtly or tacitly all you want but it was murder pure and simple by terroists, not freedom fighters, not soldiers not noble or fearless, but cowards

Erin Go Brath

This Police officer shooting is regrettable, but inevitable. The GFA was entered into with good faith by all sides, but unionist domination and suppression of nationalist ideals including the Irish language act has led to the continuing feeling that nationalists are indeed still second class citizens whose culture is secondary within the 6 county statelet. That the British Govt didn't intervene to ensure the Irish language passed has also fed into this sense of disenfranchisement felt by many nationalists.

The Irish in the north will never acqueise to be anything less than fully Irish with full legislation to protect their culture and will ALWAYS aspire to be part of a United Ireland. If these people are ignored they will revolt, they have in the past and they will in the future. Whats been seen in the last few days is the continuation of the fight against British rule in Ireland in the form of attacks against the Security personnel upholding the status quo. Irish Republicanism is one of the most enduring political philosphies in Europe, and quite simply will continue in some guise until unification. Unless the nationalist community are treated with respect by unionism and the British establishment expect more of the same to continue with or without the support of mainstream republican/nationalist political parties.

Dannyboy83

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

This Police officer shooting is regrettable, but inevitable. The GFA was entered into with good faith by all sides, but unionist domination and suppression of nationalist ideals including the Irish language act has led to the continuing feeling that nationalists are indeed still second class citizens whose culture is secondary within the 6 county statelet. That the British Govt didn't intervene to ensure the Irish language passed has also fed into this sense of disenfranchisement felt by many nationalists.

The Irish in the north will never acqueise to be anything less than fully Irish with full legislation to protect their culture and will ALWAYS aspire to be part of a United Ireland. If these people are ignored they will revolt, they have in the past and they will in the future. Whats been seen in the last few days is the continuation of the fight against British rule in Ireland in the form of attacks against the Security personnel upholding the status quo. Irish Republicanism is one of the most enduring political philosphies in Europe, and quite simply will continue in some guise until unification. Unless the nationalist community are treated with respect by unionism and the British establishment expect more of the same to continue with or without the support of mainstream republican/nationalist political parties.

Whats fully Irish?
I speak English, Russian and Polish but my Irish is fairly poor and I'm not really bothered.

So if I don't speak Irish the RIRA will shoot me too?

What if they want me to wear a kilt and a tweed coat, and smoke a pipe?
Will they do me for that too?

RIRA=TALIBAN

junder

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

This Police officer shooting is regrettable, but inevitable. The GFA was entered into with good faith by all sides, but unionist domination and suppression of nationalist ideals including the Irish language act has led to the continuing feeling that nationalists are indeed still second class citizens whose culture is secondary within the 6 county statelet. That the British Govt didn't intervene to ensure the Irish language passed has also fed into this sense of disenfranchisement felt by many nationalists.

The Irish in the north will never acqueise to be anything less than fully Irish with full legislation to protect their culture and will ALWAYS aspire to be part of a United Ireland. If these people are ignored they will revolt, they have in the past and they will in the future. Whats been seen in the last few days is the continuation of the fight against British rule in Ireland in the form of attacks against the Security personnel upholding the status quo. Irish Republicanism is one of the most enduring political philosphies in Europe, and quite simply will continue in some guise until unification. Unless the nationalist community are treated with respect by unionism and the British establishment expect more of the same to continue with or without the support of mainstream republican/nationalist political parties.

Utter rubbish, the fact that sinn fein are now the largest nationalist/republican party shows that the majorty of nationalist/republican people support the power sharing executive and not fringe luntics like the RIRA and the CIRA, your entire post stinks of tacit support of the murder of these 3 people,