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** Police officer shot dead in Armagh

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    #182
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    This Police officer shooting is regrettable, but inevitable. The GFA was entered into with good faith by all sides, but unionist domination and suppression of nationalist ideals including the Irish language act has led to the continuing feeling that nationalists are indeed still second class citizens whose culture is secondary within the 6 county statelet.
    The murder of these 4 men is justified because a poxy language act was not passed? Are you serious?


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    #183
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Whats fully Irish?
    I speak English, Russian and Polish but my Irish is fairly poor and I'm not really bothered.

    So if I don't speak Irish the RIRA will shoot me too?

    What if they want me to wear a kilt and a tweed coat, and smoke a pipe?
    Will they do me for that too?

    RIRA=TALIBAN

    Well many in the north are bothered. Irish doesn't have official recognition in the 6 counties as a result of the unionist leaders blocking it. This has led to a feeling of cultural inferiority.

    You don't fully understand the complexities i feel with some of your trite comments.


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    #184
    BennyLava
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭BennyLava


    Not hard to see who these scumbags sympathizers are from this thread


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    #185
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    This has led to a feeling of cultural inferiority.


    the poor lads :rolleyes: are they feeling inferior are they. You want to feel superior then move to a Gaeltacht area. Oh i forgot, standing behind a gun and killing unarmed people is how you get your cultural equality. I'd like to know how many of these scum can speak Irish. I've met a good few Northerners and the obligatory "póg mo thóin" was as much as they knew. so dont give us that rubbish. There are more Polish speakers in the Republic than Irish speakers in Northern Ireland, so I would like to see a Polish Language Act to make it an official language so they dont feel culturally inferior. That is of course providing that scum up North dont kill them all as collaborators.


    cultural inferiority - leads inevitably to cold blooded murder ffs


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    #186
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    junder wrote: »
    Utter rubbish, the fact that sinn fein are now the largest nationalist/republican party shows that the majorty of nationalist/republican people support the power sharing executive and not fringe luntics like the RIRA and the CIRA, your entire post stinks of tacit support of the murder of these 3 people,

    Fair comments and i agree with your analysis for the most part. However there is a significant minority that support the dissidents. As someone pointed out earlier the men of 1916 had no mandate and very little support and they have become national icons with the passing of time. I'm not for a moment suggesting dissident republican groupings will become iconic, they will not ever imo. I don't support them but i can see their point of view.
    The GFAs failings have been shown up in the past few years. In reality that agreement was a band aid trying to cover a cancer.


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    #187
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Well many in the north are bothered. Irish doesn't have official recognition in the 6 counties as a result of the unionist leaders blocking it. This has led to a feeling of cultural inferiority.

    You don't fully understand the complexities i feel with some of your trite comments.

    No offense was intended, I appreciate the fact that you've remained civil and reasonable.
    But who exactly you are speaking for?

    Where have they referred to cultural inferiority and the Irish language act?


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    #188
    Can'tseeme
    Registered Users Posts: 611 ✭✭✭Can'tseeme


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Well many in the north are bothered. Irish doesn't have official recognition in the 6 counties as a result of the unionist leaders blocking it. This has led to a feeling of cultural inferiority.

    You don't fully understand the complexities i feel with some of your trite comments.

    That's a battle that will be won politically. The stormont insitutions have only settled down. Give it a chance to work ffs.


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    #189
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    prinz wrote: »

    cultural inferiority - leads inevitably to cold blooded murder ffs

    It often has done in the 6 counties yes. It is a very divisive area and always has been. It needs to be addressed. Calling them nutcases or whatever is fine, im sure the vast majority will agree with you, but it doesn't solve the problem.


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    #190
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    However there is a significant minority that support the dissidents.

    I like how you try and use language to cover up facts.

    There is no such thing as a significant minority in democracy.

    You are a minority or a majority.

    The majority support the peace process and Sinn Fein.

    The dissidents want to abandon the will of the majority of the people, force their political views on people who don't want them through violence and terror, in the guise of a quest for the right to be an independent, democratic republic.

    That is a lie. The truth is they are entering into tactics no better than any despot dictator organization such as the Taliban or Khmer Rouge.

    You either respect democracy or you don't.


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    #191
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    . As someone pointed out earlier the men of 1916 had no mandate and very little support and they have become national icons with the passing of time.

    While I don't agree with what they did in 1916, or the countless innocent lives that were lost because of the actions of a few, I do however have a certain degree of respect for them. They were men who tried their best, to put on a uniform and fight like men. They put their lives on the line, and it cost them

    The scum behind the last 3 murders are now at home with their wives and children after killing 2 unarmed lads in their early twenties and a police officer on duty. What should their families feel? The policeman's wife and kids? I only hope that they dont grow up to be bitter and resentful but proud of their father, who was murdered upholding the rule of law and order and keeping the peace for the people of Northern Ireland, ALL the people of Northern Ireland ( and look how they repaid him ).That said I couldn't blame them if they do become bitter and resenttful.

    These cowards are animals, hiding in bushes, killing unarmed men and pizza boys. Safe behind a balaclava and a get-away car. Scum.


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    #192
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    No offense was intended, I appreciate the fact that you've remained civil and reasonable.
    But who exactly you are speaking for?

    Where have they referred to cultural inferiority and the Irish language act?

    The Irish language act might not mean much to you or to most people (here in the 26C). It is however a 'live issue' in the north, where nationalists have traditionally seen themselves as 2nd class citizens. Things have moved on to a degree but not enough i would argue. There have been many heated debates about it in the assembly, and unionists have used their veto to block it. The language act of course is not the reason for the attacks obviously, but issues like this assume more relevance in the divisive atmosphere that is the north. It certainly is a factor if not the main one.


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    #193
    Jip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    The Irish in the north will never acqueise to be anything less than fully Irish with full legislation to protect their culture and will ALWAYS aspire to be part of a United Ireland.


    You've asked them all have you or at least got a majority saying so in the recent survey you've carried out ?


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    #194
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    This Police officer shooting is regrettable, but inevitable. The GFA was entered into with good faith by all sides, but unionist domination and suppression of nationalist ideals including the Irish language act has led to the continuing feeling that nationalists are indeed still second class citizens whose culture is secondary within the 6 county statelet. That the British Govt didn't intervene to ensure the Irish language passed has also fed into this sense of disenfranchisement felt by many nationalists.

    The Irish in the north will never acqueise to be anything less than fully Irish with full legislation to protect their culture and will ALWAYS aspire to be part of a United Ireland. If these people are ignored they will revolt, they have in the past and they will in the future. Whats been seen in the last few days is the continuation of the fight against British rule in Ireland in the form of attacks against the Security personnel upholding the status quo. Irish Republicanism is one of the most enduring political philosphies in Europe, and quite simply will continue in some guise until unification. Unless the nationalist community are treated with respect by unionism and the British establishment expect more of the same to continue with or without the support of mainstream republican/nationalist political parties.

    Hi erin,
    Three questions for you:
    1.) Was the shooting of the two soldiers equally regrettable? Or was is more acceptable
    2.) I genuinely personally believe that we should seriously curtail spending on supporting the Irish language in the Rep. Of Ireland. If others shared my believe and funding was cut this may seriously lead to the disenfranchisement of (R/C) IRA members on both sides of the border that you don't recognize. Do you think that would make me a justifiable target to the current active members of the IRA


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    #195
    Wheely
    Closed Accounts Posts: 400 ✭✭Wheely


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    However there is a significant minority that support the dissidents.

    I will second Guanyin here. The significant minority argument is of no relevance-a significant minority would like to see a return of slavery in certain Southern United States. A significant minority would like to see a return to Nazism in Germany and Austria. A return of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. A return of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and so on and so forth in regions all over the world. So what?

    In a democracy, which we are, minorities significant or not use the democratic process to get their point across. They do not use murder. Your point of of NO relevance.


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    #196
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,078 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Do they have the equivalent of Madrassas up there, where the easily influenced can be persuaded that they are quite within their rights to carry out their Neanderthal acts?


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    #197
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    GuanYin wrote: »
    I like how you try and use language to cover up facts.

    There is no such thing as a significant minority in democracy.

    You are a minority or a majority.

    The majority support the peace process and Sinn Fein.

    The dissidents want to abandon the will of the majority of the people, force their political views on people who don't want them through violence and terror, in the guise of a quest for the right to be an independent, democratic republic.

    That is a lie. The truth is they are entering into tactics no better than any despot dictator organization such as the Taliban or Khmer Rouge.

    You either respect democracy or you don't.

    Its important to go back to how the northern statelet was created in the first place to get a full picture of the current problems. The British Govt refused to recognise the democratically expressed wishes of the Irish people for an independent republic in 1919. Then when the Govt of Ireland act was introduced and partition was foisted upon us with the threat of a bloody and immediate war if we rejected it, it set a dangerous precedent. All the trouble in the north has been born from this event. Unification is a moral imperative, although as i've stated i do not support the attacks i would prefer a peaceful political outcome to prevail.


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    #198
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    The Irish language act might not mean much to you or to most people (here in the 26C). It is however a 'live issue' in the north, where nationalists have traditionally seen themselves as 2nd class citizens. Things have moved on to a degree but not enough i would argue. There have been many heated debates about it in the assembly, and unionists have used their veto to block it. The language act of course is not the reason for the attacks obviously, but issues like this assume more relevance in the divisive atmosphere that is the north. It certainly is a factor if not the main one.

    So every vote at stormont that goes against the wishes of nationalists will result in bloodshed? nice democracy. why not just scrap Stormont and go back to killing each other?

    You are making excuses for these people.


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    #199
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Originally Posted by Erin Go Brath View Post
    . As someone pointed out earlier the men of 1916 had no mandate and very little support and they have become national icons with the passing of time.

    You mean rammed down our throats in school in my experience?


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    #200
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    The Irish language act might not mean much to you or to most people (here in the 26C). It is however a 'live issue' in the north, where nationalists have traditionally seen themselves as 2nd class citizens.


    This isn't the 26C or the 26 counties or anything of the sort. I take it you're referring to the sovereign state that is the Republic of Ireland, which has removed all claims on any further territories from our Constitution?

    And they will remain second class citizens ( if there is such a thing - a citizen is a citizen regardless ) as long as murdering scum go around killing police officers for doing their job in their name / with their support - explicit or implicit. If you want to be a "first class citizen" then support the state and it's organs, and agents on the ground, and effect change by political means.


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    #201
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    There have been many heated debates about it in the assembly, and unionists have used their veto to block it.
    There have been many heated debates in the Dáil, and Fianna Fáil keep using their veto to block opposition proposals - but you don't see anyone suggesting that that's a justification for dissident Fine Gaelers to start shooting soldiers and police officers.

    I guess sociopaths only need the flimsiest of excuses to indulge their bloodlust.


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    #202
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Its important to go back to how the northern statelet was created in the first place to get a full picture of the current problems. The British Govt refused to recognise the democratically expressed wishes of the Irish people for an independent republic in 1919. Then when the Govt of Ireland act was introduced and partition was foisted upon us with the threat of a bloody and immediate war if we rejected it, it set a dangerous precedent. All the trouble in the north has been born from this event. Unification is a moral imperative, although as i've stated i do not support the attacks i would prefer a peaceful political outcome to prevail.

    None of the people fighting were born then and dead people don't get a vote.
    Those people's wishes don't count as the landscape has changed. The people whose wishes do count, the current inhabitants of the island of Ireland and significantly, the north, have voted democratically to have the current government in place.

    The people killing and fighting have no mandate from the people and no majority support.

    They are terrorists, criminals and they should be hunted down as such.


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    #203
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Its important to go back to how the northern statelet was created in the first place to get a full picture of the current problems. The British Govt refused to recognise the democratically expressed wishes of the Irish people for an independent republic in 1919. Then when the Govt of Ireland act was introduced and partition was foisted upon us with the threat of a bloody and immediate war if we rejected it, it set a dangerous precedent. All the trouble in the north has been born from this event.
    I'm pretty sure I've pointed out more than once in this very thread that an overwhelming majority on both sides of the border voted - without threat of war - to legitimise and copperfasten that partition.

    Partition is a fact. Get over it.
    Unification is a moral imperative, although as i've stated i do not support the attacks i would prefer a peaceful political outcome to prevail.
    There is no political end - none - to which murder is an acceptable means. To talk of a "moral imperative" as justification for murder is, to put it kindly, oxymoronic.


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    #204
    Vananna
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Vananna


    I just hope that this isn't going to turn into all out war again. The people of Northern Ireland are jjust starting to enjoy a peaceful way of life. I hope the perpetrators are found and brought to justice.


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    #205
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,078 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    GuanYin wrote: »
    None of the people fighting were born then and dead people don't get a vote.
    Those people's wishes don't count as the landscape has changed. The people whose wishes do count, the current inhabitants of the island of Ireland and significantly, the north, have voted democratically to have the current government in place.

    The people killing and fighting have no mandate from the people and no majority support.

    They are terrorists, criminals and they should be hunted down as such.

    I think that the main reason for partition was that a couple of hundred thousand (if not more) armed loyalists would have gone on the rampage and made the Irish Civil War look like a paint-ball afternoon. The British had no choice in the matter, and neither did the pro-treaty faction.


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    #206
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    Let's dispense with this 'significant minority' nonsense once and for all.

    There are no elected members of the NI Assembly or the Dail representing the 32CSM or any other flimsy (i.e. without proper organisation or support) dissident political parties. I won't refer to them as Republican as that indicate support for an egalitarian, democratic and free nation.

    Sneaking up and shooting policemen in the back of the head and attempting to murder teenagers delivering pizzas does not represent freedom, fairness or anything even closely related.

    In recent by elections (as pointed out in the Irish Times today) the fools who stood as dissidents in Upper Bann polled 300, SF polled 11k and SDLP polled 4k. A majority of republicans overwhelming rejected and continue to reject your nihilistic violent fantasies.

    Republicanism = Democracy in it's purest form. Recognise the will of the people and fooooook off. Cretins.


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    #207
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I am pie wrote: »
    In recent by elections (as pointed out in the Irish Times today) the fools who stood as dissidents in Upper Bann polled 300, SF polled 11k and SDLP polled 4k.
    It bothers me that 300 people would vote for proponents of this sort of behaviour.


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    #208
    smashey
    Registered Users Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    Vananna wrote: »
    I just hope that this isn't going to turn into all out war again. The people of Northern Ireland are jjust starting to enjoy a peaceful way of life. I hope the perpetrators are found and brought to justice.
    I'm from Donegal, now living in Tyrone and the events of the past few days have saddened me. Apart from the completely senseless loss of life, neither I nor anybody I know wants a return to the dark days of the 70's and 80's. The perpetrators of these crimes should realise how good they have it now in comparison with then.


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    #209
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    ****BREAKING NEWS***
    18 year old kid arrested for suspected murder of Police officer.
    ******************
    That guy probably wasn't even born for most of the troubles


    That just shows how important it is to tackle their lies on places like Boards.ie.
    Don't allow confused young people to be indoctrinated by criminals



    They've got CCTV footage showing the first attack.
    And police are saying they've found some forensic clues from the car recovered in the first attack


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    #210
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    ****BREAKING NEWS***
    18 year old kid arrested for suspected murder of Police officer.
    ******************
    That guy probably wasn't even born for most of the troubles


    That just shows how important it is to tackle their lies on places like Boards.ie.
    Don't allow confused young people to be indoctrinated by criminals

    ...I'm sure he was just fighting for his right to speak Irish, what 'ya think Erin Go Brath... poor guy


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    #211
    Tom65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭Tom65


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    ****BREAKING NEWS***
    18 year old kid arrested for suspected murder of Police officer.
    ******************
    That guy probably wasn't even born for most of the troubles


    That just shows how important it is to tackle their lies on places like Boards.ie.
    Don't allow confused young people to be indoctrinated by criminals



    They've got CCTV footage showing the first attack.
    And police are saying they've found some forensic clues from the car recovered in the first attack


    Jaysus, he would've been 3 for the 1994 IRA ceasefire. I know I'm not much older, but at least I can remember it. Also, I'm not going around killing policemen.


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