TK Maxx "flouting planning laws"

Stan Nangle

Sully wrote: »

Keep the politics to the other thread folks and keep to the topic.

As for why we are in the current miss - I don't think any specific party is to blame nor do I think any specific party if voted in would transform the place.

As for judgement day - I think a new county council is in order for Waterford. Between the constant planning problems and the Tramore road it just bugs me that this crowd are running the county.

With respect Sully, this thread IS about politics.

The Planning Rules that TK Maxx have fallen foul of (for better or worse) were voted into being by our elected representatives on the County Council.

As I mentioned above, they are now arguing about who did or didn't vote for the rules (hypocritical to the last - Councillor Anne Marie Power being a notable exception).

I would also note that Fine Gael control the City and County Councils, not Fianna Fail.


And I can guarantee that the Green Party would transform the place :eek:

KingLoser

And I can guarantee that the Green Party would transform the place

Green Party? Transform Waterford?

I object!

takola

Stan Nangle wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose that was pushing it a bit far.

Waterford is fine the way it is. :rolleyes:


We have two wind turbines in Waterford - 1.7MW

Carlow has 11.20MW
Wexford has 80.90MW
Cork has 130MW
Donegal has 212MW

Even Kilkenny now has 5 Wind Turbines in Listerlin.

Waterford has 2!

Lets keep it that way, shall we?

Ok, I'm sorry, I think I'm missing something here. Could you please tell me what wind turbines have to do with TK Maxx and planning laws?

You are correct, this thread is about politics. However, we'd prefer that it not be derailed into a "Support the Green Party" thread which so far is what I am seeing. There's a specific topic here, please keep it to that.

We'd appreciate it if people wouldn't use this board as a means of self promotion.

AdMMM

Jesus, and to think that earlier on today I thought I might be pushing the boundary here for criticising what I felt to be ulterior motives!

Firstly, from a capitalist side of things, Stan should asked to make a contribution towards Boards to be allowed canvass on the site. Effectively this is what he's trying to do as I'm pretty sure that ranting about speed limits and the lack of wind turbines in Waterford has absolutely sweet eff all to do with TK Maxx.

My only words of advice to you are that there's more to this election than speed limits and green energy. Local elections are won based on a proven track record of working for the community. You, my friend, are a member of the Green Party. Need I say more?

I pretty much share the views of Merlante in this thread, only he expresses himself far more effectively than I could ever hope to. If he were running in this election, I'd be more likely to vote for him (take that however you wish)

longshanks

stan nagle, you've made a load of posts on this thread and all i can see from those posts are a whole load of smiley's. and you reckon this is an incentive to vote for your bunch?
you're a grown man stan. a grown man using smiley faces. do you think 13 year old girls are voting? why don't you try writing in pink? or how about grn prty 4ev?

robtri

i was going to post my opinions on tk maxx.... but after reading the last couple pages.... whats the point....
just move this to the politics forum......

Bards

Sully wrote: »

Keep the politics to the other thread folks and keep to the topic.

As for why we are in the current miss - I don't think any specific party is to blame nor do I think any specific party if voted in would transform the place.

As for judgement day - I think a new county council is in order for Waterford. Between the constant planning problems and the Tramore road it just bugs me that this crowd are running the county.

This is the Waterford City Forum - we can only elect councillors to the City Council. The City Council has no say on the tramore road. that falls to the mob in Dungarvan and the Waterford County forum

TIme for a poll to see how many of us live in the City vis the County

Cabaal

wtf lads politics to another thread/forum, this thread is about TK Maxx in all fairness

scout353

Could Stan Nangle be the first politician to be handed a ban for hijacking threads!!!!!

Or maybe the Boards mods are in cahoots with the green party and will allow any and all posts from them without interuption.....must go and check the golf forum in case that has been hijacked too by anti golf course developemnt propoganda!!

Now back to the TK MAxx thread...................


Everyone knows TK Maxx is a clothing and household retailer..........to have to watch them close their outlet at the cost of jobs would be ludicrous. Let's hope some common sense prevails here!

As the sign suggests at the top of the roundabout TK Maxx is located in the Butlerstown Retail Park. Surely if a development is a retail park then all units within the development should be allowed to....................retail!!!! (afraid to put a smiley here!!)

merlante

Trotter wrote: »

One person's free choice to spend money in town does not outweigh another's free choice to spend it outside of town. It is up to the city council to create the atmosphere to attract people. If those don't exist, nobody has the right to interfere with my free choice to spend my money somewhere else.

I and many others do have a car. Therefore there's a market for shopping for people with cars. Nobody has the right to tell me I cant go shopping in my car. If I want to give my money to a business person who has seen the niche reflecting that I want to drive to an integrated out of town shopping complex, then it really is nobody else's concern.

Instead of putting energies into forcing me to shop in the centre,(not you SSE, in general I mean) the people with a vested interest in the centre should attract me in, not force me.

It boils down to free will and choice. I hate shopping. I like shopping in a place where I can see/buy what I need in a very short time. I earn the money I spend, so I'm free to spend it where I want.. be that Newry, Dundrum, Biddy's corner shop, Waterford City Centre, or an out of town centre.

That's all great Trotter, but all the evidence suggests that lots of people like yourself, exercising their free choice to shop out of town, and lots of businesses satisfying this demand, has an overall detrimental affect on city centres, public transport, pollution, commuting times, and a hundred other things. That's why councils are supposed to plan the development of towns and cities, because if they don't, everything goes to **** in the medium to long term.

So it doesn't boil down to free will and choice. It boils down to proper planning. If you want **** planning you might be happier in the endless suburbs of some sprawling US, car dependent city.

sunnysoutheast

Freddie59 wrote: »

Are you a member of the Green Party by any chance?

Absolutely not.

My point is that Waterford, for various reasons (lack of recent investment is one), has an opportunity to learn from the mistakes other cities and towns around the world have made. Namely that allowing or enabling the growth of out-of-town shopping sucks the life out of the city centre, increases car dependency, creates traffic and is socially divisive. This issue goes far beyond one shop in one retail park.

Unfortunately, and this is a good point well made by others, the major retail infrastructure renewal project in the City Centre is behind schedule and probably at significant risk of cancellation because of misguided objections from people who should have known better. If the Newgate centre doesn't get built, and soon, the point will be moot.

Anyway, this debate seems to have descended off-topic into some sort of election manifesto, so I'm out.

SSE

the_syco

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I simply want to see a compact city centre

Well, that's the problem. Big store doesn't equal compact, and to prevent big stores, have a high rent, or just don't allow big stores. This leads to the big stores being pushed out from the city centre.

The board ruled that TK Maxx, along with a Mothercare outlet that was due to open at the park, contravened planning laws, as outlets at the park can only sell items that are deemed to be "bulky".

Ehhhh... so if a large hardware store opened, they could sell the entire kitchen, but not include screws, as they were not bulky? :eek:

Lets see how Tescos can open one of their Mega stores (like the new one in Maynooth) in Waterford, without selling non-bulky stuff?

longshanks wrote: »

also its a bit rich that noel frisby objects thus threatening jobs, purely on a self serving basis.

Unless it's a local resident complaining about noise or polution levels, the reason for objections is usually the above.

Stan Nangle wrote: »

If you want change, you have to vote for change.

Off topic, but the Greens won't get any of my votes. Useless shower of so & so's, being the lapdog of FF.

Stan Nangle

Okay, the response to Longshanks at the top of page 5 was a bit OTT.

Apologies for the rant.

Sully

Bards wrote: »

This is the Waterford City Forum - we can only elect councillors to the City Council. The City Council has no say on the tramore road. that falls to the mob in Dungarvan and the Waterford County forum

TIme for a poll to see how many of us live in the City vis the County

TKMaxx issue is a Waterford County issue and is hence a County Council issue. This thread is basically about the issues with TKMaxx planning and the County Council. Not city council.

You will find my point was that if the county council keep making these constant mistakes then they should be replaced.

(Other posts in this thread not related to this topic split to the Local Elections topic. Keep it there please).

robtri

Sully wrote: »

TKMaxx issue is a Waterford County issue and is hence a County Council issue. This thread is basically about the issues with TKMaxx planning and the County Council. Not city council.
.

no matter what way you look at it.... the planning for the park is Bulk items retails.... not clothing,
TK Maxx, should have done their due deligence and verified that the planning on the site is correct for their type of business...

at the end of the day, its TK Maxxs fault.....

just because we think its stupid or crazy doesn't make it right....

ec18

Sully wrote: »

TKMaxx issue is a Waterford County issue and is hence a County Council issue. This thread is basically about the issues with TKMaxx planning and the County Council. Not city council.

sure about that? i would say it's in the city limits

durrus

100% this development is in the County Councils area. Just on their side of the boundry. If it had been in the city area it's unlikely it would have ever gotten through as the city tends to be much tighter on it's retail strategy.

Trotter

merlante wrote: »

So it doesn't boil down to free will and choice. It boils down to proper planning. If you want **** planning you might be happier in the endless suburbs of some sprawling US, car dependent city.

I'd have to respectfully disagree merlante. I'll spend my money where I'm attracted to spend it. If I'm spending it out of town, that means I wasn't attracted to the town in the first place. If there was no Butlerstown centre, I still wouldnt shop in town. I'd wait until the weekends and go where there is a nice experience.

I'm ruled and restricted enough by the government as it is, statistics on best practice will never make me decide where to spend my money. I pay my tax, the rest is mine to spend, wherever I feel happy to spend it.

There just can be no obligation for someone to spend their money in a city centre that at this point in time, is disgusting.

merlante

Trotter wrote: »

I'd have to respectfully disagree merlante. I'll spend my money where I'm attracted to spend it. If I'm spending it out of town, that means I wasn't attracted to the town in the first place. If there was no Butlerstown centre, I still wouldnt shop in town. I'd wait until the weekends and go where there is a nice experience.

I'm ruled and restricted enough by the government as it is, statistics on best practice will never make me decide where to spend my money. I pay my tax, the rest is mine to spend, wherever I feel happy to spend it.

There just can be no obligation for someone to spend their money in a city centre that at this point in time, is disgusting.

I'm not telling you how to spend your money. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. What I'm saying is that out of town shopping causes a number of serious problems for an urban area, many of which have been mentioned. The only way to prevent this is good urban planning, which is what the council is attempting to do.

You being attracted to town has nothing to do with out of town shopping being good or bad. Neither is my opinion. The facts are the facts. It's exactly the same with global warming, one person says that everyone using cars will eventually cause catastrophic climate change, another person says, I respectfully disagree because I've bought a car with my hard earned money and will drive it wherever the hell I please.

At the end of the day, it's the local and central planning authorities that have to be on top of problems such as out of town shopping and urban sprawl, because people on their own will do what they like.

Bards

...and another problem with local govt is that waterford has three local authorites for the City and immediate adjoining areas all having their own agenda

Sully

robtri wrote: »

no matter what way you look at it.... the planning for the park is Bulk items retails.... not clothing,
TK Maxx, should have done their due deligence and verified that the planning on the site is correct for their type of business...

at the end of the day, its TK Maxxs fault.....

just because we think its stupid or crazy doesn't make it right....

Id love to know the full story. TKMaxx say its not their fault, Council say the same. Board said that it was the zoning of the land was the problem and the council criticised the board for doing what they did.

ec18 wrote:

sure about that? i would say it's in the city limits

Yes its county. The county council have had a lot of their planning applications they approved overturned by the board over various issues (mostly land being zoned incorrectly) and some have been interviewed in press having a go at the board for enforcing the planning laws (which they made a balls of) and doing a vote of no confidence to send a strong single to the board.

Trotter

merlante wrote: »

At the end of the day, it's the local and central planning authorities that have to be on top of problems such as out of town shopping and urban sprawl, because people on their own will do what they like.

Ok I see your point in general but there are so many things that the city council could do in order to provide people with a choice.

Taking Waterford on its own, its just a nasty city centre now. The centre could be so much more than it is. Why the council don't start with JR square and work their way out is beyond me. Their addition of the black "thing" and the "information centre" really make me wonder what on earth they are thinking.

Until then, I really can't see myself going into the city centre unless I have to.

longshanks

Trotter wrote: »

Ok I see your point in general but there are so many things that the city council could do in order to provide people with a choice.

Taking Waterford on its own, its just a nasty city centre now. The centre could be so much more than it is. Why the council don't start with JR square and work their way out is beyond me. Their addition of the black "thing" and the "information centre" really make me wonder what on earth they are thinking.

Until then, I really can't see myself going into the city centre unless I have to.

nasty city centre? get over yourself boy, we all know at this stage you don't like it, you say it in every post. quit your whinging if you've nothing new too add, there's plenty of us still like waterford, even if it is imperfect.

durrus

longshanks wrote: »

nasty city centre? get over yourself boy, we all know at this stage you don't like it, you say it in every post. quit your whinging if you've nothing new too add, there's plenty of us still like waterford, even if it is imperfect.

Couldn't agree more.

cityboi

move TK Maxx into Railway square and solve the problem!

decies

Agree about that information centre though whats the bloody point its hidious and never seen anybody use it.The city centre needs a splash of colour or something.I noticed now we have cctv cameras to look at people that dont go there anymore :rolleyes:. Bottom line is COUNCIL MUST DO BETTER.

Freddie59

decies wrote: »

Agree about that information centre though whats the bloody point its hidious and never seen anybody use it.The city centre needs a splash of colour or something.I noticed now we have cctv cameras to look at people that dont go there anymore :rolleyes:. Bottom line is COUNCIL MUST DO BETTER.

Do ya know what?

I'm just sitting here at the minute thinking of the lunacy of all this.

* We're in a recession - heading for a depression.

* Almost for 400,000 unemployed.

* We have a council and planning authority arguing over what a shop can sell (bulky or non-bulky items).

* We have the IDA spending a fortune offering incentives for businesses to locate here.

* We have people using the planning process as a plaything from the security of a State Job.

* And now we want to throw 60 people on the dole.

* Two people who are not even FROM Waterford are 'exercising their democratic right' in frustrating development.

In the name of all that's Holy - what are they thinking of?

WHAT kind of message is this sending out to retailers thinking of locating here???

Trotter

longshanks wrote: »

nasty city centre? get over yourself boy, we all know at this stage you don't like it, you say it in every post. quit your whinging if you've nothing new too add, there's plenty of us still like waterford, even if it is imperfect.

Since when are you a moderator? We talk all the time about the state of the city here, so if I give my opinion once or 20 times its no skin off your nose. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean you need to get personal.

Kotek Besar

I was just speaking to a friend of mine who works as a sales assistant in TK Maxx, Waterford. He said that they all had a meeting the other day, and weren't told much.. basically that meetings between TK Maxx and the council were ongoing, and *informally* that should any TK Maxx staff be lucky enough to find themself another job, it might be a good idea to take it.

No exactly promising.

merlante

Trotter wrote: »

Ok I see your point in general but there are so many things that the city council could do in order to provide people with a choice.

Taking Waterford on its own, its just a nasty city centre now. The centre could be so much more than it is. Why the council don't start with JR square and work their way out is beyond me. Their addition of the black "thing" and the "information centre" really make me wonder what on earth they are thinking.

Until then, I really can't see myself going into the city centre unless I have to.

Nasty city centre is a bit extreme? But then it's all opinion.

Personally, I'm a fan, I'm living in a picturesque part of the old city, and my garden wall is a 769 year old church. I will admit that the centre is blighted by blotches of decay, including the very recent and sad decline of cathedral sq., but it has a lot of charm. JR square has won awards, in fairness, and the pedenstrianisation of those streets was the best thing that ever happened to the city centre. I'm not a huge fan of the information arch either. I think the centre is a pleasant place to walk around in general, with plenty of quaint streets and history. But I do realise that there is not an awful lot of pride in what is there amongst Waterford people. As someone who has lived in other places, Waterford people are very down on the city's natural assets.

I wouldn't know what to do with myself in the suburbs personally.