What are Germany's motives?

Dannyboy83

Communicationb wrote: »

TBH I think there is alot of playing to the audience with the whole flat cap out in the countryside brigade...to see Ireland as some sort of mystical land full of fairys and green grass...we are having the last laugh by getting them here as tourists, taking their money and showing them the real Ireland:D..traffic jams, crap roads, crap health care, gombeenism etc..but the pubs are great craic..

True (and funny:D, I lol'd) but nobody ever won tourists by showing them the reality.
Think of ads for India, you don't see the destitution and poverty.
Think of Paris - Brie and chardonnay, but no Muslim riots

Dannyboy83

Sand wrote: »

Nah, we really are about as relevant to world affairs as say...Uzbekistan.

Uzbekistan can't make up their mind if they are pro-Moscow or pro-Washington (not that US financial donations alleviate the confusion)

I wouldn't ever say we are a major player, but I think we've done well for a small country just climbing out of colonialisim, poverty and papal subservience.
We have had a few diplomatic coups going back to De Valera, so we would be underselling ourselves there.

When when I think of recent times, we have been at the forefront of the EU, *at stages* e.g A10 accession, EU Constitution.

This is what makes it seem like the Germans are angry about our 'about-face' on the EU project. And the obligatory pissing of their money down the lavatory at a Galway Tent.

Karlusss

The weird thing about this is that the people who passed Lisbon/got Lisbon passed are exactly the people who AREN'T part of the corrupt political class - the far left, the far right and the "ordinary people" who don't think critically enough to notice well-packaged bullshit.

So there is essentially nobody in the polity of this country as a democratic entity who aren't to blame.

It's exactly like what people say about middle America, that they never ever see news from outside their own country, that they're completely self-centred and isolated. That's us now. "Little Ireland" that nobody notices is dead. We're being watched and held to account. And we deserve it.

Dannyboy83

Karlusss wrote: »

We're being watched and held to account. And we deserve it.

Being watched - Yes
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/eu-warning-over-debt-1645335.html

Being held to account - No. Or not yet at least mate.

I think a large section of the electorate would be quite relieved if Fianna Fail were held to account.
God knows, there would probably be some soverign dipsh1t going over to bomb Brussels then of course.

Karlusss

Yeah, a lot of the electorate would be relieved if they were "held to account" - the same electorate that voted No to Lisbon, that has elected Fianna Fail and Fine Gael in rotation consistently since independence... it's hypocrisy. People just want to see someone being blamed so they can feel better about themselves and forget that they share some of the fault.

As for the country being held to account - public opinion in Europe has an impact on how European governments deal with us. That counts.

Scofflaw

Karlusss wrote: »

Yeah, a lot of the electorate would be relieved if they were "held to account" - the same electorate that voted No to Lisbon, that has elected Fianna Fail and Fine Gael in rotation consistently since independence... it's hypocrisy. People just want to see someone being blamed so they can feel better about themselves and forget that they share some of the fault.

As for the country being held to account - public opinion in Europe has an impact on how European governments deal with us. That counts.

Perhaps if we say "a big economy did it and ran away"?

Oh, wait, that probably won't work on the Germans.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dannyboy83

Karlusss wrote: »

Yeah, a lot of the electorate would be relieved if they were "held to account" - the same electorate that voted No to Lisbon, that has elected Fianna Fail and Fine Gael in rotation consistently since independence... it's hypocrisy. People just want to see someone being blamed so they can feel better about themselves and forget that they share some of the fault.

As for the country being held to account - public opinion in Europe has an impact on how European governments deal with us. That counts.

I wouldn't say its hypocrisy, just blind ignorance.
A lot of people believed the lies and the promises, like they always have.
A lot of people probably didn't want to believe anything else.
And those who spoke up were conspiracy theorists and were advised to commit suicide.
Or in the case of the German Ambassador, they were punished.

The Anglo affair is fairly unprecedented stuff though, even by Irish corruption levels.

NI has had peace for a decade. SI has had prosperity for a decade.

Now thats in jepoardy and people are bound to be angry, because they believed that this government could and would act accordingly when the time counted.
But the silence is deafening.


As for the Lisbon treaty, I wouldn't pretend to know why that was voted out by the Irish people.
But it does seem to have been more of a 'dirty protest' than anything else, now that the sh1t is sticking to us.

Fratton Fred

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

:D PMSL
Something like that anyway.

The thing is, I didn't know we were self publicists, were we?
I mean, we never expounded the virtues of the Celtic Tiger, in a Third Reich or Stalinist fashion - did we?

No, it was more in a Harry Enfield "We're considerably richer than you" type of way.

The government duped the population into believing they were the second richest country in the world and the Irish people lapped it up and went out and bought themselves another one bedroom shoebox for €300,000 to rent out to a polish immigrant. As you rightly say, anyone who said otherwise was politely told they should hang themselves :eek:

It was obvious that an economy that was based almost entirely on house prices and those house prices were 20 odd times the average wage was going to collapse. Again plenty of people were saying this inside and outside of Ireland. Now that has happened there is an embarrassed accusation made against other countries that they are laughing at Ireland,

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

As for the Lisbon treaty, I wouldn't pretend to know why that was voted out by the Irish people.
But it does seem to have been more of a 'dirty protest' than anything else, now that the sh1t is sticking to us.

My mother in law voted no because she didn't want the EU to be able to force abortion on Ireland or send Irish troops to war. The EU has now secifically stated in the treaty these things won't happen in an attempt to appease the Irish populace.

the rest of europe is thinking "What the **** has abortion or troops going to war got to do with Lisbon?".

You can draw your own conclusions from that.

Fratton Fred

Ironbars wrote: »

Scofflaw has a point, just look at this recent have I got news for you and how it potrays our glorious leader...............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J-lkE3oTmo

Of course if the same thing was said about the german or French head it would be an acceptable piece of satire, but because it is ireland it is yet terrible and an afront to Ireland.

Are you going to wheel out the "No Blacks, Irish or Dogs" signs next?

palaver

thebman wrote: »

I'd expect them to blow that out or proportion since they wouldn't fully understand what happened.

For example, they could easily not know or not pick up on the different IRA organisations (PIRA, CIRA, RIRA) and just group them all as one. As such it may look like an attack by Sinn Fein/IRA to them instead of the reality that it is a separate group.

I don't think the details would travel very well to Germany. Even if the press picked up on them, the public wouldn't be paying attention to such details.

Details do travel well to Germany. There are quite a few German journalists who actually live in Ireland, some even more than 20 years. So they know exactly what is going on here, know the details, and not only about the different groups up North but also about the economy and wheeler-dealers who run it to the ground.

What the general public reads and understands is a completely different matter, though. But then, this applies to the Irish (and any other) public as well.

jimmmy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The government duped the population into believing they were the second richest country in the world and the Irish people lapped it up and went out and bought themselves another one bedroom shoebox for €300,000 to rent out to a polish immigrant. As you rightly say, anyone who said otherwise was politely told they should hang themselves :eek:

Excellent post ; that sums up the celtic tiger years better than anything else I have read in a long time.

Dannyboy83

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No, it was more in a Harry Enfield "We're considerably richer than you" type of way.

The government duped the population into believing they were the second richest country in the world and the Irish people lapped it up and went out and bought themselves another one bedroom shoebox for €300,000 to rent out to a polish immigrant. As you rightly say, anyone who said otherwise was politely told they should hang themselves

It was obvious that an economy that was based almost entirely on house prices and those house prices were 20 odd times the average wage was going to collapse. Again plenty of people were saying this inside and outside of Ireland. Now that has happened there is an embarrassed accusation made against other countries that they are laughing at Ireland,



My mother in law voted no because she didn't want the EU to be able to force abortion on Ireland or send Irish troops to war. The EU has now secifically stated in the treaty these things won't happen in an attempt to appease the Irish populace.

the rest of europe is thinking "What the **** has abortion or troops going to war got to do with Lisbon?".

You can draw your own conclusions from that.

I agree with the first part.
With the 2nd part, while I understand the broader picture and the implications of the EU bullying us and telling us what to do, I utterly detest the fact that abortion is not allowed in this country.
Its just like Gay marraige.
There is no reason against allowing it, other than the emotional trauma to people whom it neither concerns nor will be experiencing it.
Usually the No side like to make a cluster bomb of it with various other components like hate messages or religious nonsense.

For that reason, I would be in favour of it, as they will have to make laws inclusive rather than exclusive.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Of course if the same thing was said about the german or French head it would be an acceptable piece of satire, but because it is ireland it is yet terrible and an afront to Ireland.

Are you going to wheel out the "No Blacks, Irish or Dogs" signs next?

The above (funny, I lol'd) video was simply supposed to support the point that the British Media are unfairly focusing on Ireland.
5000 articles in the British Media about our impending nuclear implosion.

Hyping up our failure like that knackers our confidence and our reputation and clearly Brian Clow(e)n doesn't need any help in that crusade.

The ironic thing is that Gordon Brown is laid waste to the British Economy, after he claimed the was the man who "brought an end to the cycle of boom/bust"

Ironbars

fratton fred wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironbars
Scofflaw has a point, just look at this recent have I got news for you and how it potrays our glorious leader...............


Of course if the same thing was said about the german or French head it would be an acceptable piece of satire, but because it is ireland it is yet terrible and an afront to Ireland.

Are you going to wheel out the "No Blacks, Irish or Dogs" signs next?

I dont think anyone believes this to be an afront to Ireland. Its very funny but I used it to show you that your opinion that the UK are so insular they dont notice us paddys and our predicament is a fair bit of the mark.
Nothing more

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That is just an inferiority complex. The UK is too concerned with the problems it is experiencing to care too much about what is happening in Ireland. the only news reports I have seen of late about Ireland is regarding Anglo Irish, which considering the name is relevant.

Oh yeah, and the one about the Polish man with 22,000 speeding tickets:D

Fratton Fred

Ironbars wrote: »

I dont think anyone believes this to be an afront to Ireland. Its very funny but I used it to show you that your opinion that the UK are so insular they dont notice us paddys and our predicament is a fair bit of the mark.
Nothing more

The UK is far from insular, in fact the fact that the tepegraph has some very good articles about ireland proves otherwise. Incidentally, there are 6500 results on the french economy, 2300 on the greek one and 3600 on the German economy. The telegraph has been very busy by the sounds of things.

The UK is not taking delight at "The Dumb Paddys", far from it. There are 5300 hits on the Indo.ie site about the UK economy, are the Irish taking great delight in the UK's plight (Actually, don't answer that because I have no doubt many are).