"... and he earns more than Barack Obama"

Permabear

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Sleepy

donegalfella wrote: »

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Agreed. Which is why we need to shoot all those in power and redesign the system

Just because the turkeys won't vote for Christmas of their own choice doesn't mean that it shouldn't be forced upon them.

Sleepy

donegalfella wrote: »

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What you're failing to realise is that we, the Irish public, don't have to give a stuff about our politicians post-office earning potential. TBH, if it was up to me they wouldn't even get a pension unless they'd served the people for more than 10/20 years.

We, the people, employ these people to run our company. It's the exact same as choosing an employee to work for you - you pay them in accordance to what value they bring to your organisation. Their career after the position you've hired them for is none of your concern.

jim o doom

Sleepy wrote: »

What you're failing to realise is that we, the Irish public, don't have to give a stuff about our politicians post-office earning potential. TBH, if it was up to me they wouldn't even get a pension unless they'd served the people for more than 10/20 years.

We, the people, employ these people to run our company. It's the exact same as choosing an employee to work for you - you pay them in accordance to what value they bring to your organisation. Their career after the position you've hired them for is none of your concern.

jeeze - posting what I was about to post before I post it

It is not our concernt what their wage is once they leave power. It is our concern what they earn when in power. Our taxes pay their wages when in power - what private companies and individuals pay them for speaking after they have left power, is up to those private individuals - and not a concern of the electorate in general.

ceegee

jim o doom wrote: »

It certainly does. on a personal level for anyone in power, having to reisist wage cuts.

Now correct me if I read it comepletely wrong; but the OP was intially complaining about the comparison between Cowen and Obama, correct?
Why should we care about either persons earning potential once they leave office? we shouldn't and we don't. We care about what they do in power and what they get paid when in power - once the leave power, they are no long "supposed to be serving the public good".

Therefore the comparison remains valid - from the publics perspective - which is what the OP was complaining about..

Their future earning potential is important because it explains WHY other countries can offer lower salaries to their heads of state: if they werent there would the US president accept that wage?

To use sports as an analogy, its kind of like the Olympics, they dont need to offer prize money to attract pro's because winning a medal increases the athletes market value more than any paycheck other events can offer.

Permabear

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jim o doom

ceegee wrote: »

Their future earning potential is important because it explains WHY other countries can offer lower salaries to their heads of state: if they werent there would the US president accept that wage?

To use sports as an analogy, its kind of like the Olympics, they dont need to offer prize money to attract pro's because winning a medal increases the athletes market value more than any paycheck other events can offer.

That's actually a very good point and I do accept it somewhat - but the fact it can also be taken that perhaps the electorate of other countries in the free world would not be willing to accept the ridiculous high wages that our government see's fit to award itself.

It must also be taken into account that whilst the earning potential of an exiting taoiseach and an exiting president; the exiting taoiseach also gets a VERY significant pension.

This pension is FAR higher than even the high end of the average industrial age. Not only that - but whilst he may not be able to demand the payments for speaking that an ex US president may get - he will still be able to go around as an ex doing talks for significant money. Less money yes - but plenty of it nevertheless.

We must also take into account again that the person who is being paid these obscene wages is asking us as a people to collectively tighten our belts. Now are we as a collective going to be able to get massive wages when we finish working or retire? no we are not.

Another important point is the term spent in office. An american president gets a maximum of two 4 year terms, or 8 years in office. Taken from wikipedia about our previous leader Bertie Ahern; 1994 he was elected sixth leader of Fianna Fáil. Under Ahern's leadership Fianna Fáil led three coalition governments. After Éamon de Valera, Bertie Ahern's term as Taoiseach was the second longest. Ahern resigned as Taoiseach on 6 May 2008.

That is a term of FOURTEEN years - 2 years short of double what an American president can work as - at the high wages he receives.

Mad Finn

I feel a song coming on:

"O'Leary, O'Lowry, O'Rourke and O'Hara
There's no semi state boss paid less than Obama.

Tooraloo, tooralooo etc etc"

jim o doom

donegalfella wrote: »

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A good and true point which I find NO fault with at all in fact - but the fact remains, regardless of him being "impervious to appeals" and regardless of what his earning potential (including whatever massive pension he will receive).

The public are still correct in comparing his wages to others in power - and try to get away from say Obama and look at the UK, which I have mentioned several times in previous posts - it's a very similar governmental model & yet still there is a big discrepancy between what their MPs and Prime minister receive when compared to our own government.

And again - his imperviousness to public appeal is based on his personal needs or wants. His personal needs and wants are not what the public cares about.. and on that basis they will continue to compare his ability as a leader and CERTAINLY his wage to other leaders; especially in light of his ham fisted budgeting methods and requests for us all to be more frugal.

gurramok

ceegee wrote: »

Their future earning potential is important because it explains WHY other countries can offer lower salaries to their heads of state: if they werent there would the US president accept that wage?

To use sports as an analogy, its kind of like the Olympics, they dont need to offer prize money to attract pro's because winning a medal increases the athletes market value more than any paycheck other events can offer.

Let see. Can you name any country of less than 10million population where the president/prime minister/ruler is paid more than Biffo?

Hint: You won't find one in the OECD.

Unless we are the only small country on the planet and every other country is huge and they can pay them lower salaries based on 'potential pay after leaving office', your argument is rubbish.

Permabear

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Daithinski

donegalfella wrote: »

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However, Cowen is already wealthy from his various property deals / empire. (Maybe not as much now as the property market is gone to sh!te.)

He was making plenty of hay while the sun of the celtic bubble shone.

Its not like hes relying on his pay as a taoiseach, he already has his millions made.

Ask his tax evading/defaulting, estate agent brother.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0328/breaking58.htm

Permabear

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ceegee

gurramok wrote: »

Let see. Can you name any country of less than 10million population where the president/prime minister/ruler is paid more than Biffo?

Hint: You won't find one in the OECD.

Unless we are the only small country on the planet and every other country is huge and they can pay them lower salaries based on 'potential pay after leaving office', your argument is rubbish.

And how many countries with under 10 million people have a higher minimum wage than us? or average wage?

K4t

donegalfella wrote: »

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That doesn't matter a damn! Brian Cowen's job is Taoiseach of Ireland.
His pay should have absolutely nothing to do with his possible earning prospects after he leaves that job. It's this kind of attitude that really sickens me.

old boy wrote: »

they keep trotting out the line we need to pay big money to attract the right type of person, be jaysus if thay are the right type of person i shudder to think what we would got with 50 grand a year less. naw we would have just the same kind of fly by night. seing whats above in the dail many people would have trouble selecting a decent cabinet.

It's cringeworthy alright. It's ok though, the bankers are ONLY going to be able to earn €800,000 from now on. We might have to up that to get the best 'talent' though.

jimmmy

turgon wrote: »

Bear in mind that Barack Obama is both head of government and head of state. So maybe ye should add both Cowens and McAleeses salary's together for an accurate comparison.

Excellent point seldom made

Sleepy

jimmmy wrote: »

Excellent point seldom made

Is it? Consider the fact that most US presidents work for very long hours every day and that they work far more days than our elected officials, who spend vast amounts of their 'working' day engaged in party business, kow-towing to the 'pillars' of the communities (because lets face it most of our electoral regions are little more than that), sipping champagne at the Galway Races, watching 'de dubs', flying off in the Air Corp chopper to open a crisp packet in Kerry and the fact that our President has next to no duties and I'd say that if Obama isn't actually doing more work than Cowen and McAleese he's certainly more productive...

jimmmy

Sleepy wrote: »

Is it? Consider the fact that most US presidents work for very long hours every day and that they work far more days than our elected officials, who spend vast amounts of their 'working' day engaged in party business, kow-towing to the 'pillars' of the communities (because lets face it most of our electoral regions are little more than that), sipping champagne at the Galway Races, watching 'de dubs', flying off in the Air Corp chopper to open a crisp packet in Kerry and the fact that our President has next to no duties and I'd say that if Obama isn't actually doing more work than Cowen and McAleese he's certainly more productive...

I agree with you ; both Cowen and McAleese deserve a big pay cut given their work to date + performance, and the state of our economy.

gurramok

ceegee wrote: »

And how many countries with under 10 million people have a higher minimum wage than us? or average wage?

Probably one- Luxembourg with a population of less than half a million.

Whats the minimum wage got to do with it? People on minimum wage did not get successive benchmarking pay awards since 2002 and regular yearly pay hikes unlike our Taoiseach and TD's.

If your implying that the cost of living is so high that our leader needs to be the best paid in the EU, that is simply delusional as the man can afford the lifestyle of a millionaire unlike those on low pay.

Finland which is just behind Ireland in the cost of living stakes and has about the same population pays its Prime Minister €122,400, http://www.vn.fi/tietoa-valtioneuvostosta/perustietoa/en.jsp

Can you justify Biffo's pay now?

Permabear

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gurramok

donegalfella wrote: »

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So?

You're comparing one of the richest countries on the globe to Ireland? :rolleyes:

Anymore you can find? I can tell you there are not many countries who pay more than ours, its a single digit list. Straws and clutches come to mind

Highest paid PM in the OECD says alot.

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gurramok

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yes and you replied earlier to my post as to why bigger countries pay less because 'their leaders earn more after leaving office unlike the smaller countries'

Then i asked which small countries pay even near what Biffo gets and you're answer is one of the richest countries on the planet Singapore which is in the Premier League compared to Second Division Ireland.

Last time i checked, Ireland is not among the richest countries on the planet no matter how the Irish propaganda surveys paint it.

Anymore countries you can name? Maybe an oil-rich Gulf state? :rolleyes:

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gurramok

Irrelevant.

Ireland's GDP is larger than its GNP by a fair bit because of MNC's. GNP is a fair representation as the GDP is seriously distorted plus the recent housing bubble has inflated things a bit!

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gurramok

donegalfella wrote: »

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It is irrelevant. Irish GNP is forecasted to decline by 8%-13% depending whose economist one believes while nearly every other country in the Top10 list you presented plus most other industrialised countries are forecasted not even to have near that much of a decline. Hint being, our status will fall down that list partly due to a housing bubble.

You are now comparing us to Third World countries to say how lucky we are. Whats that got to do with the topic?

Every other first world country is in the same boat in wealth terms when compared to Third World countries.

Permabear

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gurramok

So you're saying Biffo's pay should not be cut and should be increased as we are 'still among the richest' no matter how silly that sounds?

Whats your stance on the pay issue? Pay cut or pay increase?

Permabear

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