Random Disconnects

paddyk · 11-03-2009 7:14pm #1

I have been having issues with random disconnects since Friday evening. I have been on to BT tech support who are being very helpful.

A new Modem is on the way as there does not appear to be a fault on the line. My modem is renewing my IP address every 2 to 3 minutes. This can go on for an hour at least, sometimes longer.

Eventually it will make a connection and hold it and all is well.

I was informed by BT that Eircom is replacing cables in my area with Fibre optic to my local cabinet.

Right enough for the last 3 days there have been engineers at the cabinet.

Now my line stats are poor, I am 5 Klms from the exchange, according to BT. Will the fibre optic from the exchange to my local cabinet, which is only 100 yards away, help improve my line or will the fact that copper will still connect me to the cabinet negate the fibre optic.

Sorry for long post, trying to give as much info as possible.:o

cpu-dude · 12-03-2009 4:17pm

The change from Copper to FO will definately make a difference but only if the cabling in your house itself is not an issue (assuming you had no problem since Friday, I'd say it's fine). See how your connection is after you recieve the new router and then post your line statistics.

dub45 · 12-03-2009 4:30pm

What are your line stats?

exaisle · 12-03-2009 5:34pm

Random Disconnects? I'll show ya random disconnects....

I'm attaching a jpeg of my current Signal-to-Noise level. I've been having random intermittent disconnects since January. I'm a BT subscriber and while the BT tech support people have been very helpful, they seem as if they are hamstrung by Eircom's unwillingness to properly investigate the problem.

Everybody (myself included) seem to think that it's a hardware problem. I've plugged the modem directly into the socket....there are NO extensions on the line and the problem still arises. The distance from the socket to the modem is about six feet. The Eircom cable from the pole is the one which goes into the socket.

Even though I have reported faults several times, which have been passed on the Eircom, not once have I had anybody to the house to check what seems to be a large join just before it enters the house. Furthermore, I dont have an NTU box so it's impossible to tell where Eircom's responsibility starts or ends.

Current Attenuation is 55dB although a neighbour's is 51dB. Noise levels can be anywhere from about 14.5db downwards. My next door neighbour (25 metres away) has similar problems and has been greeted with the same indifference by Eircom.

Eircom say my loop length is 6.1km even though it's pretty obvious where the cable goes when it leaves my house (its a rural area so it's not as if the loop is travelling up and down a housing estate). The distance to the exchange is about 4.65km, travelling on the road parallel to the cable. The latest from Eircom is that "anybody with line attenuation of more than 50dB will have problems". My argument is that if they got their finger out and fixed their end, the SNR would rise and alleviate any problems which the high attenuation caused. I'm left wondering why I didnt have any connection problems before January 09?

Sorry for the length of this post.....I wanted to put as much info up as possible.

D.

cpu-dude · 12-03-2009 6:03pm

exaisle wrote: »

Random Disconnects? I'll show ya random disconnects....

I'm attaching a jpeg of my current Signal-to-Noise level. I've been having random intermittent disconnects since January. I'm a BT subscriber and while the BT tech support people have been very helpful, they seem as if they are hamstrung by Eircom's unwillingness to properly investigate the problem.

Everybody (myself included) seem to think that it's a hardware problem. I've plugged the modem directly into the socket....there are NO extensions on the line and the problem still arises. The distance from the socket to the modem is about six feet. The Eircom cable from the pole is the one which goes into the socket.

Even though I have reported faults several times, which have been passed on the Eircom, not once have I had anybody to the house to check what seems to be a large join just before it enters the house. Furthermore, I dont have an NTU box so it's impossible to tell where Eircom's responsibility starts or ends.

Current Attenuation is 55dB although a neighbour's is 51dB. Noise levels can be anywhere from about 14.5db downwards. My next door neighbour (25 metres away) has similar problems and has been greeted with the same indifference by Eircom.

Eircom say my loop length is 6.1km even though it's pretty obvious where the cable goes when it leaves my house (its a rural area so it's not as if the loop is travelling up and down a housing estate). The distance to the exchange is about 4.65km, travelling on the road parallel to the cable. The latest from Eircom is that "anybody with line attenuation of more than 50dB will have problems". My argument is that if they got their finger out and fixed their end, the SNR would rise and alleviate any problems which the high attenuation caused. I'm left wondering why I didnt have any connection problems before January 09?

Sorry for the length of this post.....I wanted to put as much info up as possible.

D.

Your attenuation correlates to your supposed loop length (which is quite far for a definite stable connection, although it does depend on the quality of the line too). Can we see your line statistics as well please?

It looks like a Telephone line fault, whether it's internal or not I'm not too sure. Why don't you have an NTU? You should get Eircom out to fit one.

PS: Your neighbour could be on a different loop that yourself so there is no point in comparing his with yours.

exaisle · 12-03-2009 6:55pm

Thanks for the reply.

Line stats attached. Please note that BT have temporarily reduced my speed to 1meg. I've had a reliable 2mb service since installation a couple of years ago.

I mentioned to BT that I didnt have an NTU. They passed it on to Eircom who passed it back. A BT tech person is visiting tomorrow morning to fit it. Maybe he will be able to shed more light...or at least he may be more motivated to do so.

By the way, when you mention that my neighbour might be on a different loop, does the fact that there is only one thick telecoms cable running down the road (from which all the connections to houses come) make any difference?

Regards to all in "rural Ireland"....

E

cpu-dude · 12-03-2009 7:10pm

exaisle wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

Line stats attached. Please note that BT have temporarily reduced my speed to 1meg. I've had a reliable 2mb service since installation a couple of years ago.

I mentioned to BT that I didnt have an NTU. They passed it on to Eircom who passed it back. A BT tech person is visiting tomorrow morning to fit it. Maybe he will be able to shed more light...or at least he may be more motivated to do so.

By the way, when you mention that my neighbour might be on a different loop, does the fact that there is only one thick telecoms cable running down the road (from which all the connections to houses come) make any difference?

Regards to all in "rural Ireland"....

E

Well you are getting a lot of HEC Errors which usually means your line is on too high of a profile (which isn't the case too much because your now on 1MB) but more so because of the poor quality of the line.

I would wait until your NTU is fitted (which is definitely essential especially since you need the Broadband to be filtered correctly) and if your HEC Errors keep occurring, contact BT and request a Telephone Line fault to be logged for this issue.

Also, we can't see the loop itself because it's been buried underground ever since the phone lines were planted - who knows what direction it could be going in? Attenuation is never usually affected too much by poor wiring (as it's distance related) and it might be in this case.

Do you get any noise or interference on your landline phone?

exaisle · 12-03-2009 7:37pm

The phone lines aren't planted here....(welcome to rural Ireland).....except when theyre hanging from the poles and lying in the ditch. (see attached)

The phone line is fine...havent had any problems on that score.

As regards attenuation, could a bad or faulty connection not cause a certain amount of resistance on the line...and would that not be reflected in higher attenuation and a certain amount of noise?

The really strange thing is that this has only become an issue since early January...and despite multiple fault reports, I still havent seen an Eircom person..... Perhaps it's not that surprising after all...

Regards,

E

cpu-dude · 12-03-2009 7:48pm

Holy good jasus! By the looks of that picture, a fallen tree could be the cause of the line issues - that's appauling. I'm pretty sure Eircom are aware on the poor setup in your area (it is rural after all) so it might be worth your while getting yourself and a few neighbours to all contact Eircom (or even ComReg) on the issue.

Has your neighbour been affected since last week as well?

paddyk · 12-03-2009 10:30pm

These are my stats and I realise They are not good.

noise margin upstream: 19 db
output power downstream: 18 db
attenuation upstream: 30 db

noise margin downstream: 6 db
output power upstream: 12 db
attenuation downstream: 53 db

I am syncing at 5500 kbs down and 508 up/

Speedtest is roughly 4500ish and usually a steady 424 up.

With tech support I have gone through modem straight to eircom box etc. Still get random drops which can last for 10 minutes or several hours. Modem keeps trying t sync.

Have replaced internal cables and BT replaced filter. Just the modem left to check and A new one is in the post.

I know my stats are bad, According to BT I am 5.5 Klms as the cable is laid from Tallaght exchange.

I'm just hoping when the Fibre optic is laid, if ever, it may help my stats:D

Wife has just said she hears a bit of noise on the phone. I cant hear it, but might get BT to check that out.

exaisle · 13-03-2009 1:00pm

Well, the BT engineer arrived out this morning and fitted an (Eircom) NTU. He mentioned that the kind of "box" I had (installed by Eircom) contained a capacitor which occasionally gave problems.

When he did a DSL test with his equipment, the attenuation figure was 51dB (down from 55dB), but when I reconnected the modem it was back to 55dB. Then we put a filter on a second line which enters the house, and he tested the DSL line again and it showed 49dB! So, I reconnected the modem and I'm still getting 55dB.

The only thing I've noticed is that the noise level has remained at a reasonably respectable 13dB since he installed the NTU. I'm going to install a different modem later today and see what happens.

Just by way of background info, I've done a bit of research in the area. There are four houses connected from the same telegraph pole here, all within 100 metres of each other. The nearest two to the pole show attenuation of 55dB, the two furthest both show 51dB.

Regards,

E.

cpu-dude · 13-03-2009 1:25pm

exaisle wrote: »

Well, the BT engineer arrived out this morning and fitted an (Eircom) NTU. He mentioned that the kind of "box" I had (installed by Eircom) contained a capacitor which occasionally gave problems.

When he did a DSL test with his equipment, the attenuation figure was 51dB (down from 55dB), but when I reconnected the modem it was back to 55dB. Then we put a filter on a second line which enters the house, and he tested the DSL line again and it showed 49dB! So, I reconnected the modem and I'm still getting 55dB.

The only thing I've noticed is that the noise level has remained at a reasonably respectable 13dB since he installed the NTU. I'm going to install a different modem later today and see what happens.

Just by way of background info, I've done a bit of research in the area. There are four houses connected from the same telegraph pole here, all within 100 metres of each other. The nearest two to the pole show attenuation of 55dB, the two furthest both show 51dB.

Regards,

E.

The attenuation isn't going to change much anyway, that's not going to be too much of any issue - it's the poor quality on the wiring to your house which needs to be attended to because seriously, a tree, wind or even heavy rain looks like it could affect those cables.

cpu-dude · 13-03-2009 1:29pm

paddyk wrote: »

These are my stats and I realise They are not good.

noise margin upstream: 19 db
output power downstream: 18 db
attenuation upstream: 30 db

noise margin downstream: 6 db
output power upstream: 12 db
attenuation downstream: 53 db

I am syncing at 5500 kbs down and 508 up/

Speedtest is roughly 4500ish and usually a steady 424 up.

With tech support I have gone through modem straight to eircom box etc. Still get random drops which can last for 10 minutes or several hours. Modem keeps trying t sync.

Have replaced internal cables and BT replaced filter. Just the modem left to check and A new one is in the post.

I know my stats are bad, According to BT I am 5.5 Klms as the cable is laid from Tallaght exchange.

I'm just hoping when the Fibre optic is laid, if ever, it may help my stats:D

Wife has just said she hears a bit of noise on the phone. I cant hear it, but might get BT to check that out.

Your are on too high of a profile and your Noise Margin is very low. With that attenuation, you theoretical max profile should be 2-3MB.

Contact BT and request to get your Broadband dropped to about 3MB and see if it makes a difference. Your connection may have been intermittent before, you just may not have noticed it as much.

exaisle · 13-03-2009 1:31pm

I agree...the attenuation shouldnt vary much, but isnt 4dB just too much of a difference for lines coming from the same pole? :-)

However, I agree ENTIRELY with your comment re. poor wiring.

cpu-dude · 13-03-2009 1:37pm

exaisle wrote: »

I agree...the attenuation shouldnt vary much, but isnt 4dB just too much of a difference for lines coming from the same pole? :-)

However, I agree ENTIRELY with your comment re. poor wiring.

That's true, maybe it shouldn't vary but the wiring outside might be the reason for it or even just the specific router that you are using (after all, the test on the line showed your attenuation at 51, not 55).

Does your neighbour have the same router as you? If not, bring his over to your house and compare the results. Modems and routers lie a lot about stats, sometimes the need to be reset or updated (with new firmware) in order to get the true line statistics.

exaisle · 13-03-2009 11:30pm

Curiously, my neighbour (he of the 55dB attenuation) just phoned. For the last half hour, his line attenuation is down to 12.5dB and he is connecting at 1.7 megs. His output power is 16.5 dBm (mine is 1.3dBm).

Can he expect something to go on fire soon? We're both about 4.6 miles from the exchange...

E

exaisle · 18-03-2009 4:30pm

Can anybody tell me whether it would be unusual for a Signal to Noise ratio to go from 10-12dB up to a relatively steady 15dB in a matter of minutes because of the good weather?

Graphs attached...

E

cpu-dude · 25-03-2009 11:19am

exaisle wrote: »

Can anybody tell me whether it would be unusual for a Signal to Noise ratio to go from 10-12dB up to a relatively steady 15dB in a matter of minutes because of the good weather?

Graphs attached...

E

Noise Margin should normally fluctuate but only by very small amounts. You and your neighbour need to get onto Eircom ASAP about that wiring - your problem is never going to go away unless you do bud.

Random Disconnects

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