price increases

pjproby

considering most people who are working are being asked to take a wage reduction, either directly or by tax increases, why are prices increasing at all. just got the invoice from ntl with their usual, albeit small, annual increase.
surely prices should be decreasing in line with wages.

TheDriver

my local centra put up the price of my usual sandwich by 20c last month. So esb, gas, oil etc all coming down yet costs going up????

julien69

My local prostitue went from charging 30euros for a bj to 35.Ill be shopping around id say.This is digraceful.How can it be justified in these harsh times.:cool:

talkingclock

just dont complain. keep your head in the sand and pay what you get asked for. be it your spar or your local prostitute. do your patriotic duty and feed their families. don't mind your own family. just pay any price they want without moaning.

OP: it's pure irish greed.

It's a joke, and now there on about a €2 increase on 20 cigarettes, they say the increase would generate up to €420 million in Government revenue for the State.

I say it will drive more people to quit and more people up north to buy them, so much for the €420 million in Government revenue, more like an increase in northern revenue :rolleyes:

1huge1

hellboy99 wrote: »

It's a joke, and now there on about a €2 increase on 20 cigarettes, they say the increase would generate up to €420 million in Government revenue for the State.

I say it will drive more people to quit and more people up north to buy them, so much for the €420 million in Government revenue, more like an increase in northern revenue :rolleyes:

I don't think the €2 extra in taxes for cigarettes will generate as much revenue as they predict, I think they are going way past the optimum tax level.

1huge1

1huge1 wrote: »

I don't think the €2 extra in taxes for cigarettes will generate as much revenue as they predict, I think they are going way past the optimum tax level.

It won't be anywhere close, sure we all know what they are like with their figures of late, way off the mark !!

beertons

hellboy99 wrote: »

It's a joke, and now there on about a €2 increase on 20 cigarettes, they say the increase would generate up to €420 million in Government revenue for the State.

I say it will drive more people to quit and more people up north to buy them, so much for the €420 million in Government revenue, more like an increase in northern revenue :rolleyes:

They lost a million a day the last time they put up cigs. They can't afford to put them up €2, they'll go up to about €8.50. Funny how they can never give an exact figure on how much in taxes they make off tobacco every year. And on what failed project it was wasted on.

Xterminator

hellboy99 wrote: »

It's a joke, and now there on about a €2 increase on 20 cigarettes, they say the increase would generate up to €420 million in Government revenue for the State.

I say it will drive more people to quit and more people up north to buy them, so much for the €420 million in Government revenue, more like an increase in northern revenue :rolleyes:

for those who quit, within 2 years the country will save 10 times that in the health system, from the knock on benefits to the smokers who quit, and their 2nd hand smoke.

However addicts will usually keep buying, but maybe it will make them cut down!

In the mean time a higher price should also put off yound people from starting the habit, as they will find it a little harder to buy them.

Slow Motion

The additude towards smokers (yes I am one) in this country is really pissing me off. Sure tax the hell out of them they are only filthy smokers and a drain on the health system! Bollox to that, I pay for the health system like everybody else, however as a smoker and a drinker I contribute much more in tax than those who don't! Yes it is an addiction (smoking), however where is the help for us addicts to get off fags? It's minimal as the government have no interest in wanting us to stop as we are too valuable to the tax take! What about those smokers like my mother, 80 years old on a state pension, her few smokes a day are one of the few pleasures she has there is no chance she will give them up so she will have to pay whatever price they are.

It's a soft target and will only be the first of many. If the money raised from tax on cigarettes was ringfenced for specific purposes I would not feel able to make this post, however I have absolutely no confidence that will happen it will just get chucked into the black hole this bunch of muppets have created and no benefit will accrue from it other than to act as a sop to all the militant anti smokers out there! Jesus on a stick is there any original thinking to be had from this government and those who say sure if they want to smoke let them pay for the privelage :rolleyes:

Xterminator

Xterminator wrote: »

for those who quit, within 2 years the country will save 10 times that in the health system

Then you get into the debate about people living longer, how much would really be saved in 10 - 40 years and is the health system going to cost more in the long run.

Nody

hellboy99 wrote: »

Then you get into the debate about people living longer, how much would really be saved in 10 - 40 years and is the health system going to cost more in the long run.

I've yet to see any calculation which did not showed a great saving for the country. Yes, there are people who will live to 100+ smoking every day but they are the exception, not the rule as shown in the studies. Same goes for Alcohol, even with tax it is a big loss over time for the country.

How ever taking it a step further though where is the tax for McD, people who don't excercise etc.? That is a big cost for society as well or how about another gazillion different things people should be doing?

the groutch

Slow Motion wrote: »

The additude towards smokers (yes I am one) in this country is really pissing me off. Sure tax the hell out of them they are only filthy smokers and a drain on the health system! Bollox to that, I pay for the health system like everybody else, however as a smoker and a drinker I contribute much more in tax than those who don't! Yes it is an addiction (smoking), however where is the help for us addicts to get off fags? It's minimal as the government have no interest in wanting us to stop as we are too valuable to the tax take! What about those smokers like my mother, 80 years old on a state pension, her few smokes a day are one of the few pleasures she has there is no chance she will give them up so she will have to pay whatever price they are.

It's a soft target and will only be the first of many. If the money raised from tax on cigarettes was ringfenced for specific purposes I would not feel able to make this post, however I have absolutely no confidence that will happen it will just get chucked into the black hole this bunch of muppets have created and no benefit will accrue from it other than to act as a sop to all the militant anti smokers out there! Jesus on a stick is there any original thinking to be had from this government and those who say sure if they want to smoke let them pay for the privelage :rolleyes:

imo smokers should be made to pay for the decades of poisoning innocent bystanders before the smoking ban

K4t

the groutch wrote: »

imo smokers should be made to pay for the decades of poisoning innocent bystanders before the smoking ban

Agreed.

And what about all the young people I see smoking at school everyday? A €2 tax might discourage them from buying cigarrettes. Surely that is a good thing.

K4t

K4t wrote: »

Agreed.

And what about all the young people I see smoking at school everyday? A €2 tax might discourage them from buying cigarrettes. Surely that is a good thing.

It may or may not, and if for say the government do put €2 on a pack with the hope of generating more revenue, what would happen then if sales see a dramatic decrease, what will they do for extra revenue

Slow Motion

the groutch wrote: »

imo smokers should be made to pay for the decades of poisoning innocent bystanders before the smoking ban

Thanks for your reasoned and well thought out rebuttal of my post, I am ovbiously completely in the wrong about everything!:rolleyes:

cooperla

Xterminator wrote: »

for those who quit, within 2 years the country will save 10 times that in the health system, from the knock on benefits to the smokers who quit, and their 2nd hand smoke.

However addicts will usually keep buying, but maybe it will make them cut down!

In the mean time a higher price should also put off yound people from starting the habit, as they will find it a little harder to buy them.

To the best of my knowledge health costs related to fat people now cost the EU more than smoking related health costs.

Given the rubbish diet many people seem to live on, the government would be better off adding €2 tax on each takeaway and 50 cents to each bag of crisps' or chocolate bar.

Also, the lower healthcare costs won't be seen immediately (you're looking at long term savings instead of anything in the short term AFAIK). I think this is one of the reasons we consistently see small increments on the price of cigs, as a large increase in price would mean the government would have to pick up the tab for a large short term fall in revenue without any real change in health care costs.

Slow Motion

cooperla wrote: »

Given the rubbish diet many people seem to live on, the government would be better off adding €2 tax on each takeaway and 50 cents to each bag of crisps' or chocolate bar.

You see that would never work as it would be politically incorrect to target fat people, not to mention that a lot of the government are obese, smokers however are just evil inconsiderate bastards and deserve everything they get, and if they complain, well then they will just get shot down by those with the advantage of the moral high ground!

techdiver

cooperla wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge health costs related to fat people now cost the EU more than smoking related health costs.

Given the rubbish diet many people seem to live on, the government would be better off adding €2 tax on each takeaway and 50 cents to each bag of crisps' or chocolate bar.

Also, the lower healthcare costs won't be seen immediately (you're looking at long term savings instead of anything in the short term AFAIK). I think this is one of the reasons we consistently see small increments on the price of cigs, as a large increase in price would mean the government would have to pick up the tab for a large short term fall in revenue without any real change in health care costs.

I agree their should be a tax on "un-healthy" food. Another source of revenue and will hopefully encourage people, including myself, to eat healthier.

The problem is at the moment is that some fast food is too cheap. You can nearly feed a family in McDonald's for a lesser cost and effort of buying fresh meat/fish and veg. There is something wrong with that picture.

techdiver

techdiver wrote: »

I agree their should be a tax on "un-healthy" food. Another source of revenue and will hopefully encourage people, including myself, to eat healthier.

They do that then it starts to look like your being told what you can and cannot do and looking like we are a police state, we don't want that.

It's not up to the government to help you out if you like to eat too much and your overweight. We all know what health problems can occur if you put on an awful lot of weight on, for some that's a choice you have made and one you are responsible for, just like smoking.

If you ask me they should never bring in a "fat tax" and leave cigarettes as is. At the end of the day the governmet have made their own mess and a shame of running the country, they need to start telling themselves and all the big shots around them first what they should be doing. They need to cut their own wages big time, cut taxes, VAT, VRT, etc... prices need to be coming down across the board in order to boost our economy, they should be encouraging the people to spend their money here, not the other way around and putting everything up and driving thousands of us across the border everyweek.

darc

There'll be no €2 increase on cigs. This was called for by ash & Irish cancer Society. AFAIK, neither of them are working in govenment!

Same groups come out with same stuff every time there is a budget.

I predict no extra duties on alcohol / cigs / petrol.

Extra duty on diesel & home heat oil, increase in prsi ceiling, increase in levy (to be replaced by higher tax rates in next budget) and also enforce it for all earners over €10k. Decrease in Jobseeker allowance, decrease in early child allowance, decrease in childrens allowance.

the groutch

darc wrote: »

Extra duty on diesel & home heat oil, increase in prsi ceiling, increase in levy (to be replaced by higher tax rates in next budget) and also enforce it for all earners over €10k. Decrease in Jobseeker allowance, decrease in early child allowance, decrease in childrens allowance.

if they did that, they'd risk a major backbench revolt imo

Xterminator

cooperla wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge health costs related to fat people now cost the EU more than smoking related health costs.

Given the rubbish diet many people seem to live on, the government would be better off adding €2 tax on each takeaway and 50 cents to each bag of crisps' or chocolate bar.

Also, the lower healthcare costs won't be seen immediately (you're looking at long term savings instead of anything in the short term AFAIK). I think this is one of the reasons we consistently see small increments on the price of cigs, as a large increase in price would mean the government would have to pick up the tab for a large short term fall in revenue without any real change in health care costs.

So because there is a problem with obesity in western society, you are excused?

the 2 issues are unrelated. I agree they both need action. dont you?

However i never heard of anyone dying from second hand fat?

and also cancer medicenes for 1 year, will cost a lot more than insulin and blood pressure tablets. Those cancen treatments are us$ 30,000 per month.

source =http://www.assertivepatient.com/2007/02/the_high_cost_o.html

so i reject your fat people self justifcation.

cooperla

Xterminator wrote: »

So because there is a problem with obesity in western society, you are excused?

the 2 issues are unrelated. I agree they both need action. dont you?

However i never heard of anyone dying from second hand fat?

and also cancer medicenes for 1 year, will cost a lot more than insulin and blood pressure tablets. Those cancen treatments are us$ 30,000 per month.

source =http://www.assertivepatient.com/2007/02/the_high_cost_o.html

so i reject your fat people self justifcation.

Well, first of all, I don't think US costs is too appropriate here given the larger costs of medicine in the US versus Europe, but here's another US stat: http://www.karlloren.com/diet/p69.htm. While the costs are not exactly appropritate the US does seem to be providing a trend as to where we are heading.

Secondly, I'm not arguing against price rises for smokes. My main point was that a sharp rise in prices will probably lead to a large drop in revenue (from people smoking less and people buying cigs outside the republic), while very little immediate costs savings will be seen in healthcare.

Thirdly, I took a shot at obesity because it is a major problem which I do not seeing as being dealt with - i.e. people are ignoring it. Article from UK on future projections:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-488004/Half-Britons-obese-2050-landmark-study-warns.html


Now, back to taxation. This antique idea (from government and economists, etc) of looking at the old reliables is no longer appropriate IMO. I think the government is doing the right thing in incremental increases in smoking. I'm not sure about their apparent policy on drinking (i.e. raising the prices does not stop binge drinking). Increases taxes on petrol has some justification but I think government has more work to do yet to get people into more efficient cars. As for taxation on unhealthy foods, I was slightly exagerating in my last posts on the level of taxation I would like to see. Putting it very simply (and not understanding fully what exactly is taxed in grocery stores) I like to see zero tax on healthly foods and all unhealthly food taxed.