Awwww- Poor Politicians get an increase

Martyr

the reason TD's are getting a rise is because they know the majority of docile irish will more than likely say something like "they deserve to be rewarded"

rewarded for WHAT? - flushing the country down the toilet?

The EU pumped money into this country for years, but most people here actually believe success was due to the ingenuity of FF or bertie ahern's economic policies - ahahaha, even funnier **** again.

they're like a bunch of tamed monkeys in the dail.

Dannyboy83

I think its clear now.

Yes, its clear. They are surrendering.

They can't believe the Irish people haven't tore them from their seats in Dail Eireann, and they're forcing us to do it.

Let me know if there is a riot in Dublin, I will drive up our half assed motorway to participate

gandalf

It’s time to contact your TD's and demand that they take a cut across the board. If enough people start clogging their letterboxes and email boxes with the same request they will have to take notice.

If there are any lurkers from the opposition parties take note of the brownie points you'll win if you take the lead on this and implement a large percentage decrease in wages in your party and force the other parties to follow. Do that and we will take you seriously as leaders and people who might be able to get us out of the quagmire that we find ourselves in.

Pride Fighter

Martin Ferris is accepting his pay rise but is donating it to charity. A class touch IMO.

ednwireland

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Martin Ferris is accepting his pay rise but is donating it to charity. A class touch IMO.

how is this a "class touch" the public exchequer figures are in the toilet and money is taken out and given to charity, the point is this adds to the current deficit giving it away is not helping the situation (although the charity (s) concerened i'm sure are deserving causes) BUT the problrm is this is sucking more money out of public funds which then has to be borrowed, doesn't anyone see this as a slight problem and the very thing the govand td's should be trying to minimise. or am i been stupid here or something

gandalf

Well I suppose its a start. It would be a far better gesture to refuse it, take a cut and stand with the workers of the state who are taking a kicking at the moment!

Daithinski

yop wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/83643000-hike-for-tds-as--workers-pay-is-cut-1669838.html


Sweet god. How the hell can they justify this?? :rolleyes:

The Loreal TD's. Because they are worth it.

Presumably they can justify it the same way they can justify their 12 day's off over paddy's week. (nero fiddling while rome burned?)

ie they just vote themselves days off / pay rises and the rest of us can just go and sh!te.

I think now is the time for some kind of protest march against the double standards of the government (and all other TD's too). It is a farce that they are getting away with this cr@p.

You cannot justify their behavior, they are milking the dail for all it is worth while at the same time making a balls of everything that their grasping little fingers touch.

deadhead13

Last year, during the outrage over the proposed ministerial pay raise Mary Hannifin was on the 6 o'clock news defending it. Her rational went as follows - "highly paid politicians discourages corruption." The irony that Bertie Ahern was making another trip to the Mahon tribunal that week completely passed her by.

Another justification I have heard for our politicians being so well rewarded is - otherwise the "talented" td's would leave politics and take up better paid occupations.

Ever feel like your being had?

thebman

I don't oppose this. I oppose the standard wage but not an increase to long serving TD's. If they get re-elected time and time, they are doing a good job or can be assumed to be. If they are not that is a failure on the electorate not the individual TD.

The standard wage for them should be cut though. It does not stop corruption, it does not encourage the brightest that much is clear so cut it immediately.

Making our politics appear more respsectable would improve peoples opinion of our political system and they may be more willing to enter it. Of course the current lot wouldn't agree with that statement now would they?

Never stepping down, refusing to take cuts when expecting them from the people, they have a sense of entitlement that they don't deserve so it the cut has to be forced on them from pressure by the people.

Liam Byrne

deadhead13 wrote: »

Her rational went as follows - "highly paid politicians discourages corruption."

No chance of ethics and moral stances discouraging them, then ? Says a lot for the kind of scum we vote in.......

Can we swap Cowen for Obama ? We'd get someone with vision AND have to pay him less, while the U.S. would get the kind of brainless, unimaginative, idiotic and indemocratic plonker that they've been used to for the last 8 years......

givyjoe81

P. Breathnach wrote: »

What you are setting out is not a principle. Were it a principle, then you should be complaining about all those political representatives who already are in receipt of the long-service increments.

Your apathy to this story strikes me as bizarre, unless iv mistaken you for someone else, you are a public servant are you not? Assuming the story is true, no matter how badly it is reported, are you seriously telling me, as a public servant, you have NO PROBLEM with this pay increment been given the green light?

I find that astonishing considering some of the justification for protests against the levy been thrown around by public servants, i.e. its not fair etc, considering bankers etc and in this case politicians. Is it because these chaps are fellow public servants you aren't too bothered about their salaries going up?!

Oh and bman, your logic is shocking.. So you think if someone is voted in time and time again they must be doing a good job, or can be assumed to be doin so... holy christ you do realise Fianna Fail are being voted in time and time again!

thebman

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Oh and bman, your logic is shocking.. So you think if someone is voted in time and time again they must be doing a good job, or can be assumed to be doin so... holy christ you do realise Fianna Fail are being voted in time and time again!

Yes I'm aware of that, that is a failure of the electorate to realise that change is required.

You can't blame FF for the people being ignorant of what they are up to. All the information is available, people are refusing to read it.

I also said I wanted the base salaries reduced immediately. They should be rewarded over time and getting re-elected showed be viewed as their performance report by the their employers (the people), if they get back in they should get a pay increase because they are obviously doing a good job in the eyes of the electorate (the people).

That is a good, accountable system assuming the people do their job.

BroomBurner

givyjoe81 wrote: »

Your apathy to this story strikes me as bizarre, unless iv mistaken you for someone else, you are a public servant are you not? Assuming the story is true, no matter how badly it is reported, are you seriously telling me, as a public servant, you have NO PROBLEM with this pay increment been given the green light?

I find that astonishing considering some of the justification for protests against the levy been thrown around by public servants, i.e. its not fair etc, considering bankers etc and in this case politicians. Is it because these chaps are fellow public servants you aren't too bothered about their salaries going up?!

P/ Breathnach is a retired public servant, so the levy, etc. doens't effect them directly. Nobody really gives a sh!t unless something effects them directly.

As a current public sector worker, I am mad as hell that this payrise went through. It was on the table weeks ago (was mentioned on this forum several times) and it was passed as there were other things keeping people distracted.

Roll on March 30th.

Dannyboy83

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Don't look to camels for your metaphor. Try sheep: one jumps when going through a gateway, and all the others follow, jumping in the same place.

This long-service increment has been a feature of the payment of political representatives for (okay, let's have more animals) donkey's years -- the donkey being McCreevy.

Now concentrate on this point: it's a detail, a relatively small detail. If a lot of energy is expended on getting excited about approximately 3% of an Oireachtas member's pay, or perhaps 1.5% of all payments to that member, then we are taking our eye off the ball.

P.Breathnach, I have to admit I always really enjoy reading your comments, I tend to seek them out in these discussions.
You usually pick up on small details that others miss or come up with interesting points.

1 thing I don't understand however, is where you draw the line.
Where/How do you determine 'enough is enough'?

Its fine to say that nobody protested before, you should have protested in the past. The protest has to start somewhere, don't you agree?

Oscar Wilde
"Morality, like art, means drawing a line someplace."

"Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion."

If Reform needs to start somewhere, would this not have been a good starting place?

ixoy

BroomBurner wrote: »

As a current public sector worker, I am mad as hell that this payrise went through.

This is seperate to annual increments right? It's a pay rise for the level they're at (and Principal Officers if I recall correctly) rather than the years-of-service? Understandably you'd be annoyed - if I'm on a pay freeze, I'd really like to think it's across the board.

For what it's worth, are increments in danger of being frozen (i.e. those increments based on years of servic?

P. Breathnach

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

P.Breathnach, I have to admit I always really enjoy reading your comments, I tend to seek them out in these discussions.
You usually pick up on small details that others miss or come up with interesting points.

Thank you.

1 thing I don't understand however, is where you draw the line.
Where/How do you determine 'enough is enough'?

I'm still working on it!

I'm one of the lucky ones, married to another of the lucky ones: never unemployed, never broke, now getting a decent public service pension while Herself still works. Paid tax at 60% when it seemed necessary, and didn't complain. Bought a house we could (just about) afford. Don't change cars very often.

Then the Celtic Tiger came. Our lives didn't change a great deal, but our pay improved. We saw people around us living higher on the pig's back, and it wasn't obvious they had the income to support the lifestyle. We also saw a few who really did seem to have the income. And we went on with our quiet and fairly comfortable lifestyle, not getting carried away.

Then we saw house prices hit the stratosphere, and were glad we had bought our home years ago. We didn't consider "releasing capital" to buy an apartment in Budapest or wherever, or even a buy-to-rent in a Dublin suburb. It dawned on me -- too slowly, I admit -- that we were witnessing a bubble, and I became very concerned about the cosy relationship between the construction/property interest groups and the government, and about the lending policies of financial institutions.

And here is where things really went wrong: I didn't do anything about it, and lots of people like me didn't do anything about it. My excuses? First, I wasn't 100% sure that "they" were wrong and I was right. Second, I don't now how to stop a runaway train if I am not at the controls (or, indeed, if I am at the controls, but I could probably figure it out).

Its fine to say that nobody protested before, you should have protested in the past. The protest has to start somewhere, don't you agree?

Agreed, but with this proviso: there should be a clear objective, and it should be fair. Denying some politicians an increase that others have already received is not a good target, and it fails the fairness test. Deny them all their long-service increments, or deny none of them.

I'll say where I stand: I think our TDs are not grossly overpaid (we ask a lot of them, particularly as constituency representatives). Their expenses system is an insult to us (I find the idea of paying an allowance for turning up at the Dáil particularly vexing). Ministerial pay, both for cabinet members and junior ministers, is far too high, and most of the extra money paid for committee work is unjustified. Overall, though, we should pay enough to make the job interesting to people of ability; it's our fault, as an electorate, that we have filled many of the positions with people of insufficient ability.