Ibrahimović Worlds Best - Fact or Myth

redout

After last nights performance this deserves a thread. Most persons I know say "whats the hype all about" and I am one who shares this view. Last night he was far from good and watching the game on Sky I had Andy Grey and more importantly Martin Tyler saying they didnt understand the hype neither. Now never mind the first imbecile who spurts ****e as often as a baby but the Tyler knows his stuff. They kept going on about missing in big games and Grey mentioned he hasnt scored against any of the top sides in Serie A this year (dont know how true that is) and that he has never scored a knockout goal in the Champions league. According to Uefa he had five shots wide and one which hit the bar (always looked like it was going over) and the comical air kick with about five mins to go which I presume doesnt count as a shot. A lot of reports on the guy say that he often goes missing in games especially big ones but that when he is playing good he is great. As regards player ratings for last nights match Sky gave him a 6, the Guardian a 6 and Setanta 5.5 . I think the Guardian summed him up well with "Showed sporadic glimpses of his talent but Mourinho's claim that he is the best player in the world is faintly ludicrous"

Links to ratings:
http://www.skysports.com/football/match_facts/0,19762,11065_3095277,00.html
http://www.setanta.com/uk/Articles/Football/2009/03/11/Champs-League-Man-United-v-Inter-statsratings/gnid-43980/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/mar/12/championsleague-manchester-united

Discuss.

Samurai

a poor mans larsson!

Mitch Connor

Samurai wrote: »

a poor mans larsson!

A rich mans Berbatov.

He is a very good player imo, and in the right side he could be one of the very best. I think he has been hampered by the lack of talent in the sweden team, and the poor performances in general of Inter during his time there.

The guy has fantastic ability, his attitude is sometimes lacking, but he does need the support of the players around him.

Worlds best though? No.

For strikers, I would have Villa, Eto'o and Torres ahead of him for a start.

weemcd

showed again for the ~teenth time he can't do it at the highest level. Its all well and good showing flashes of brilliance against the likes of sampdoria/atlanta/etc. havnt seen him to the job against any big opposition in the cl.

destroyer

I thought he played quite well last night, won a lot of long balls
and held it up very well, was unlucky not to score,but best player in
the world?...Thats just more Mourinho nonsense

Boskowski

He is fantastic on the ball. His touch, the way he controls it, his awareness under pressure, the way he moves the ball around, he is clearly a genius in that respect. I absolutely love watching players like him.

Unfortunately though that's all very nice but it doesn't make him a great player. To be great a player a few more things are needed of which he doesn't have enough. More show than dough.

But he is still an outstanding footballer.

eagle eye

Is he the best player in the world? Simply answer is no. I don't even have to discuss it. Lionel Messi is the best player in the world and getting better.

His goal last night against Lyon was such a gem. I can't get a video for it but he has scored so many gems lately it probably doesn't even rate as this best this season.

Bubs101

I don't think he's the best player in the world, Ronaldo and Messi have that sewn up for the next few year but I do think he's the best forward around. I haven't seen enough of Villa to compare but I'd definitely have him above Torres and Eto'o. Firstly, his physique means he's great in the air, he can hold the ball up effectively and is hard to push of the ball. None of those mentioned above can do that.

But the strange thing is he is by far the best at his feet. Combines insanely brilliant creativity with a ferocious shot. When he plays well inter win and he's behind nearly every decent thing they come up with. Didn't see the second match but it was true in the first. The thing about him is that he likes time, time to think, time to line up a shot, time to dribble and playing English teams doesn't suit him. To judge him on 4 games isn't proffesional for a pundit. There's only one man I'd trust when it comes to his opinion on Ibra and that's James Richardson. Having said all this he's my favourite player at the moment so I am enamoured with him

inforfun

eagle eye wrote: »

Is he the best player in the world? Simply answer is no. I don't even have to discuss it. Lionel Messi is the best player in the world and getting better.

His goal last night against Lyon was such a gem. I can't get a video for it but he has scored so many gems lately it probably doesn't even rate as this best this season.

Here you go, Messi

Ibrahimovic the best in the world? Not a chance.
I can think of 20 players who are better/more usefull.

anonymous_joe

We all know Leo Messi's the world's best.

Ibra is fantastic, one of the best, no, the best striker in teh world in terms of talent.

He's more subtle than Berbatov, and not as strong as Drogba, and probably not as explosive as Eto'o, but he's a fantastic talent, with superb control and vision. His problem is that the team he's playing in is not as strong as the Inter teams of the past, and is unbalanced, and overly favouring the defensive aspects of the game.

An Inter team with a couple of wingers getting up to help him, Cambiasso guarding the defence, and two midfielders to to offer support in the centre of the pitch would really let him lose. As it was, the Inter midfield had three defensive midfielders in it last night, a striker on the left wing, and Stankovic floating about not doing much. Put Ibrahimovic as the fulcrum point of United (replacing Berbatov) and I'd reckon he'd score more and create more.

He was fantastic at Ajax and at Juve, and has been Inter's star player this season again.

Tom65

I think he has the ability and technique to be one of the best players, but I so rarely see him using it. His finishing last night was atrocious, and when you're the best player in the world you score those, or at least one of them. He doesn't perform well enough to be the best player/striker in the world.

~Rebel~

Bubs101 wrote: »

I don't think he's the best player in the world, Ronaldo and Messi have that sewn up for the next few year but I do think he's the best forward around. I haven't seen enough of Villa to compare but I'd definitely have him above Torres and Eto'o. Firstly, his physique means he's great in the air, he can hold the ball up effectively and is hard to push of the ball. None of those mentioned above can do that.

? Torres is fantastic in the air, gets stuck in and is hard to knock off the ball. Much faster too, and does it consistently in big games as well as small.

I like Ibra, i like watching him, you never know what he's gonna do next, but i would have Torres ahead of him every day of the week. Far better all round player imo, particularly against good sides.

Those 2 together could make an awesome partnership though.

gustavo

weemcd wrote: »

showed again for the ~teenth time he can't do it at the highest level. Its all well and good showing flashes of brilliance against the likes of sampdoria/atlanta/etc. havnt seen him to the job against any big opposition in the cl.

One could certainly say the same about Cristiano Ronaldo and any number of English Premier League players

SlickRic

he's never 'best in the world' class, but anyone can surely see he's a very good player.

his control is phenomenal at times. many times in the two legs with utd the ball would be hoofed at him from the back and he'd manage to keep it impressively while support came.

he's just not clinical it seems. if he'd scored those 2 good chances he had (granted the second one was deflected onto him by evra), and stankovic had scored the one he put on a plate for him we'd have been lauding an amazing assist.

fine lines at top level football.
but i don't think he's the best; many others who are more effective.

LuckyLloyd

Never really understood why people get so caught up in worrying about who is the 'best' in any particular position. You'll never really know as knowing would require them playing the exact same opposition / with the exact same supporting cast / with equal luck with injuries / and over a large data sample (probably 2 seasons or more).

kryogen

gustavo wrote: »

One could certainly say the same about Cristiano Ronaldo and any number of English Premier League players

well, i guess they could say that....but they would be wrong

Iang87

kryogen wrote: »

well, i guess they could say that....but they would be wrong

they could say that and they would be right, top players forever go missing on the big day ronaldo does it a lot. last night i though he did piss all when the game was close (first half), gerrard does it nearly everytime liverpool play united hope i'm wrong come saturday. Ibrahimovich is no different he goes missing too. I dont think its fair to say its hype based on two performance he is an excellent striker but just like every other player in the world he does need players around him and unfortunately inter dont have that for him, that doesn't make him bad

Bubs101

~Rebel~ wrote: »

? Torres is fantastic in the air, gets stuck in and is hard to knock off the ball. Much faster too, and does it consistently in big games as well as small.

Well first off, Torres is the lone striker for liverpool so he's nearly always going to get the ball when he goes forward and doesn't have to share his chances. Ibra is unbelievable at sharing. last year he was Inter's top scorer and provided the most assists for them. It's harder to messure but no less integral to a team. Also, Torres may be strong and physichal but he's not as big, strong or physichal as Ibra and Ibra has never relied on his speed so it makes little difference

monkey9

He isn't even the best in Italy, never mind the world!

Karmafaerie

Ibra.

For Inter.

78 appearances in all comps.
47 Goals.

What more can you want?

Through out his whole club carrer from Malmo-Ajax-Juve-Inter.

262 Appearances.
121 Goals.


Look at Eto'o

297 Appearances.
157 Goals.


Torres

262 Appearances.
116 Goals.


Ronaldo

211 Appearances.
81 Goals.


Messi

101 Appearances.
49 Goals.



So there.
That answer your questions?:P
No, cause you can't compare them.


Ibra on his day is unstopable.
Ibra on an off day can be completely absent.
He's an immense talent.
He holds the ball up better than anyone I've ever seen.
At times it seems like the ball is glued to his feet.
He can score absoloutely astounding goals.
And he tries what nobody else would.

Best in the world?
No.
There is no best in the world.

Ibrahimovi wouldn't call himself the best.

To him he's simply "Zlatan"!



Edit: Strange coincidence that Torres and Ibra have the exact same number of senior games played (especially with Torres 3 years younger.)

Jazzy

i still rate him very highly. i think he'd be absolutely devastating in a side like man utd or barcelona where he would be playing with players who suit his game better. ibra and rooney up front would be an absolute nightmare for any defence. he is incredibly quick thinking and has amazing talent on the ball. sure he plays in italy where its a slower game but i think this works against his strengths. hes never really been able to play fast flowing football while in italy and i think it would suit his game a lot more. when he does play in the CL against a PL club (liverpool last year) he does look a bit pedestrian and not really much of a threat but that is more because his entire team doesnt look a threat and have let 360 minutes against two top english sides pass by with barely a whisper of scoring a goal.
life is good for him at inter tho so i dont see him moving anytime soon. id really like to see him play in the PL someday tho

edit - hes scored 2 against roma away so far this season but no others against the big teams in italy. i dunno about assists tho

Karmafaerie

Jazzy wrote: »

i still rate him very highly. i think he'd be absolutely devastating in a side like man utd or barcelona where he would be playing with players who suit his game better. ibra and rooney up front would be an absolute nightmare for any defence. he is incredibly quick thinking and has amazing talent on the ball. sure he plays in italy where its a slower game but i think this works against his strengths. hes never really been able to play fast flowing football while in italy and i think it would suit his game a lot more. when he does play in the CL against a PL club (liverpool last year) he does look a bit pedestrian and not really much of a threat but that is more because his entire team doesnt look a threat and have let 360 minutes against two top english sides pass by with barely a whisper of scoring a goal.
life is good for him at inter tho so i dont see him moving anytime soon. id really like to see him play in the PL someday tho

edit - hes scored 2 against roma away so far this season but no others against the big teams in italy. i dunno about assists tho

I was saying the eact same thing to a UTD supporting friend whenwe were watching the match last night.
Rooney's goal tally would double!

Scary, scary, thought.

Vampireskiss

Like his counterpart Totti and Roma its hes all hype I keep hearing every year how amazing both these guys are but I ahve watched them alot and they have never delivered in the champions league unlike Del piero who was class in his prime

Bubs101

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Like his counterpart Totti and Roma its hes all hype I keep hearing every year how amazing both these guys are but I ahve watched them alot and they have never delivered in the champions league unlike Del piero who was class in his prime

Idiotic comment.2 years ago Totti was the top scorer in the Champion's League until they got humbled by Man Utd. he led the resergence of the Roma team from being a Wigan into a major force. He's unbelievably loyal and has won a whole lot of honours including the golden shoe, best player in italy and a World Cup medal. Totti and Ibra are also completely different players

Vampireskiss

Bubs101 wrote: »

Idiotic comment.2 years ago Totti was the top scorer in the Champion's League until they got humbled by Man Utd. he led the resergence of the Roma team from being a Wigan into a major force. He's unbelievably loyal and has won a whole lot of honours including the golden shoe, best player in italy and a World Cup medal. Totti and Ibra are also completely different players

He couldnt do it last night or hasn't done it against the very best in the Champions League

redout

Bubs101 wrote: »

Idiotic comment.2 years ago Totti was the top scorer in the Champion's League until they got humbled by Man Utd. he led the resergence of the Roma team from being a Wigan into a major force. He's unbelievably loyal and has won a whole lot of honours including the golden shoe, best player in italy and a World Cup medal. Totti and Ibra are also completely different players

They most certainly are as Totti was/is a playmaker and Ibra is a striker. Totti is hands down the better player but I am biased I suppose as he is my favourite player . Great footballing brain.

iregk

God I hate the "best player in the world" threads. Is Ibra the best in the world? No. Is Messi the best in the world? No. Is Ronaldo/Eto'o/Torres/Lampard? No.

In my opinion there is no best player in the world. Messi is the current best in the world by popular opinion, stick in at center half and see how good he is. Like wise stick Vidic up front or on the wing and see how he does.

Bubs101

Yeah, he used to be my favourite too until I changed to Ibra this season. He was just such a classy player on the ball.

Also VampireKiss, you don't reach a semi final in the Champion's league or win the World Cup without playing to your best and he peaked when Serie A was undoubtably the best league in the world.

eZe^

Ibrahimovic is fantastic.

Best strikers in the world;

1. Villa
2. Eto'o
3. Torres
4. Ibrahimovic

imo anyway.

kingshankly

How people can rate ibrahimovic as one of the best strikers in the world beggars belief surely this thread should be most frustrating. He never produces when required seen hit at anfield and was astounded how little he works for the ball. He has never scored in the knock out stages of the champions league (has never scored after christmas I believe)
But no doubt he has ability

Bubs101

Once again, do you watch Serie A. If not your comment is irrelevant

kingshankly

Bubs101 wrote: »

Once again, do you watch Serie A. If not your comment is irrelevant

forums are for people to air their views and nobodys comments are irrelevent.
Watch very little seria a unless I'm financialy involved. I am basing my opinion on maybe 20-30 games in which I have seen him, and he has never over impressed me . Sorry if my opinion isn't akin to yours

jesus_thats_gre

He would be an asset to any club in the PL. He is nowhere near as some here would like to think he is though. Nor is Serie A for that matter.

Seaneh

Would you people get off David Villa's dick, he has to be one of the most over rated players ever.

The two best strikers in the world on current form are Eto'o and Ibra.

After that there's Anelka (current form so STFU) and after that Villa because he's scoring goals this year.

Last season he scored 22 goals in all competition, thats hardly world beating stuff.

Yeah he had a good Euro, but what striker in THAT squad wouldn't have?


Ibras problem at inter is that he is the soul creative talent in the team as because of that he has to continusly play deep and on the wings to try make stuff happen, all this sh!te spouted here about "he doesn't work for the ball" WTF, name a striker who holds the ball up better? name a striker to plays the channels more or drops as deep as he does and still scores 30 goals a season.

The man is a beast, last season he was the best striker I'd seen since Shevchenko's Ballon d'or winning year.

eZe^

How much David Villa have you seen? He has only failed to score 20 goals in a season once in his professional career. A career that's 9 seasons long. Maybe you need open your eyes.

jesus_thats_gre

So, the Barca supporter thinks Villa is best and the Milan supporter thinks that Ibrahimovic is the best...

eZe^

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

So, the Barca supporter thinks Villa is best and the Milan supporter thinks that Ibrahimovic is the best...

I'll gladly admit that Villa is a better striker than Eto'o. It's close, but Villa is more consistent. Eto'o scores bags of goals, but he can become sporadic, where he'll go 5 games without a goal, and then score 7 in the next 5.

Iang87

whatever about ibra never scoring after christmas.lets give him his due he only has 2 games after christmas in europe cos inter aren't very good

redout

David Villa is among the best. I have him up there with Eto'o but have said he could possibly do better than Eto'o if he was at Barca considering what he can do at Valencia with somewhat lesser support. But Henry is no slouch neither. He was untouchable at Arsenal banging in more than 30 a season for five consecutive seasons and finished with 226 Goals in 369 Appearances and won two European Golden Boots. That was averaging about 2 goals every 3 games. Now show me a striker who could beat that ! Despite what some might say about him he has about 40 Goals in 80 appearances for Barca which aint bad at all considering he has been stuck out on the left wing ever since moving there.

redout

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

So, the Barca supporter thinks Villa is best and the Milan supporter thinks that Ibrahimovic is the best...

The United supporter thinks Villa is possibly the best also.

Karmafaerie

kingshankly wrote: »

How people can rate ibrahimovic as one of the best strikers in the world beggars belief surely this thread should be most frustrating. He never produces when required seen hit at anfield and was astounded how little he works for the ball. He has never scored in the knock out stages of the champions league (has never scored after christmas I believe)
But no doubt he has ability

So you've seen about 4 of his 260 odd games, but you the fact that people rate him "beggars belief"?!

Nobody, and I do believe nobody, plays the holding striker role better than Ibra.
He didn't play well on Wed, but he completely bossed both rio and Vidic out of it.
All night Inter hooked long balls up to him.
Everytime he took the ball down, held it up, and layed it off.
His close control is ridiculous.
Not like Ronaldo, all flashy like a illusionist playing three card monty.
Ibra just seems to hold manage to keep the ball completely under his control.

He's strong, talented, can work on his own, or as a superb link man, can win a game from anywhere.And will try things that other players wouldn't even dream of.

There is no "best player in the world", but there is no team that would be worse for Ibra being a part of it.

Jazzy

AND hes amazing in pro evo :pac:

redout

Just to add that Henry with his far superior technical ability can score goals that Eto'o, Villa and Ibra could only score once in a blue moon. Now if anyone thinks thats not true then I would ask did they watch his Arsenal days were he scored them for fun. Even still does it now at Barca. The goal against Atletico two weeks ago if anyone recalls was a dead ringer for the one he scored against us at Lansdowne a couple of years back which I am sure everyone remembers.

Blazer

Might not be the best player in the player but great sense of humour





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KgpJyoH7bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On100ZtKa_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mWbpn-4t9w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLBFH0U_vyw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mWbpn-4t9w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFZvbmn7OYc&feature=related

dreamers75

Van Nistlerooy is the current BEST.

Ibra is nowhere close, was in same position as Torres albeit on a much bigger EGO scale, Torres felt at Athletico he was the ultimate he couldnt get any better, his last 2 seasons there he wasnt great. The move to Liverpool new coach, new league, new hunger and now he has stepped up from his prime at athletico to being a far better striker.

Ibra was the same but his ego is far bigger than his talent had he stayed at Ajax and learned his trade rather than ****ing about and arguing with anyone who tried to teach him, he could have been one of the true greats. But he felt he was better and still thinks that but tbh your greatness is measured on how well you do on the highest stage and he has failed each and every time.

maybe some coaching would have helped him, imo hes not good enough to be even considered in the same vein as Villa Eto Torres RVN proven players at the highest levels......BUT he still could be altho at 27 i doubt he would listen to any coach now.

SlickRic

dreamers75 wrote: »

Van Nistlerooy is the current BEST.

Ibra is nowhere close, was in same position as Torres albeit on a much bigger EGO scale, Torres felt at Athletico he was the ultimate he couldnt get any better, his last 2 seasons there he wasnt great. The move to Liverpool new coach, new league, new hunger and now he has stepped up from his prime at athletico to being a far better striker.

Ibra was the same but his ego is far bigger than his talent had he stayed at Ajax and learned his trade rather than ****ing about and arguing with anyone who tried to teach him, he could have been one of the true greats. But he felt he was better and still thinks that but tbh your greatness is measured on how well you do on the highest stage and he has failed each and every time.

maybe some coaching would have helped him, imo hes not good enough to be even considered in the same vein as Villa Eto Torres RVN proven players at the highest levels......BUT he still could be altho at 27 i doubt he would listen to any coach now.

em, you seem to know a lot about how all these players think.

you also seem to know how ibra behaves in training.

have you seen him play in serie A? have you seen his stats?

he's at the very least close to the first three on your list, and on a par if not better than VN currently. as mentioned, he's a beast. even on wednesday for instance, not playing amazingly well, he was a nightmare for utd with his hold up and link up play.

Dearg81

kingshankly wrote: »

forums are for people to air their views and nobodys comments are irrelevent.
Watch very little seria a unless I'm financialy involved. I am basing my opinion on maybe 20-30 games in which I have seen him, and he has never over impressed me . Sorry if my opinion isn't akin to yours

Agree with this, unless he starts producing in champions league or euro championship/world cups he can never be classed as one of the best. I would like to see him in the premiership though as his 1st touch and hold up play is class.

Once again, do you watch Serie A. If not your comment is irrelevant

Get off your high horse, you can judge a player pretty well after seeing him play enough champions league and international games.

SlickRic

Dearg81 wrote: »

Get off your high horse, you can judge a player pretty well after seeing him play enough champions league and international games.

to be fair, this is a minority of games. and he's not been bad in every champions league and international game he's played anyway.

even at the last euros he had a world class performance in the game against Greece maybe where he scored that cracker.

CHD

Big fat myth.

Dearg81

SlickRic wrote: »

to be fair, this is a minority of games. and he's not been bad in every champions league and international game he's played anyway.

even at the last euros he had a world class performance in the game against Greece maybe where he scored that cracker.

Yea it was a class goal against Greece and he scored against Spain too. Dont get me wrong, i think he's a good player but he needs to do more in the champions league or world cup before I rate him as one of the best in the world.

SlickRic

Dearg81 wrote: »

Yea it was a class goal against Greece and he scored against Spain too. Dont get me wrong, i think he's a good player but he needs to do more in the champions league or world cup before I rate him as one of the best in the world.

i definitely understand that point of view to a degree.

but for me i also can't ignore what he does in the league for his club as that is where he's been wonderful the majority of the time.

he can't do it EVERY game in the champions league. he was with Ajax as a raw talent, and Inter where he's about all they have in terms of creativity.

at international level I've not seen him apart from the Euros last year really so i can't judge very far.

what i will say though...he's not worth that salary whatever it comes to