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College Fees

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    #92
    Dboy85
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Dboy85


    I'd prefer if they just raised the reg fee to 2k


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    #93
    OneArt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭OneArt


    joey54 wrote: »
    Fees decision may be delayed until after elections:
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyaugbqlgbau/

    Do they think we're stupid???

    Yes.


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    #94
    joey54
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭joey54


    OneArt wrote: »
    Yes.

    Good thing we're not paying for our education so! That'll learn them!


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    #95
    3 Dollar Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭3 Dollar Bill


    joey54 wrote: »
    Good thing we're not paying for our education so! That'll learn them!

    Maybe if you appreciated free education, you might actually learn something.


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    #96
    OneArt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭OneArt


    3 Dollar Bill wrote: »
    Maybe if you appreciated free education, you might actually learn something.

    Buuurn baby burn.

    Though to be fair, learning isn't exactly what Irish politicians do best.


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    #97
    Embyr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Embyr


    joey54 wrote: »
    Let the government bring in fees, but let everybody pay, no matter what their family status. The loans system would mean the burden would not fall on our parents but us the people actually receiving the education.

    Studies have shown that families on lower incomes are less likely to enter into loans, because of decreased confidence in their ability to pay them back. So even though a graduate tax would, in principle,allow all students access to third level, lower income groups are still marginalised/excluded.

    Students and their families should not be forced to pay the costs of bailing out bankers, developers and speculators. Education is a right...not a privilege.


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Embyr wrote: »
    Studies have shown that families on lower incomes are less likely to enter into loans, because of decreased confidence in their ability to pay them back. So even though a graduate tax would, in principle,allow all students access to third level, lower income groups are still marginalised/excluded.

    Students and their families should not be forced to pay the costs of bailing out bankers, developers and speculators. Education is a right...not a privilege.

    So because they don't have confidence in their ability to pay loans back they should not have to pay for their third level education, but the rest of us should? I strongly disagree! If the children of middle income families have to pay for their third level education so then should the children of lower income families. They are in no way 'marginalised' or 'excluded'. Maybe they should get their priorities in order.


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    #99
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Embyr wrote: »
    Studies have shown that families on lower incomes are less likely to enter into loans, because of decreased confidence in their ability to pay them back. So even though a graduate tax would, in principle,allow all students access to third level, lower income groups are still marginalised/excluded.

    Students and their families should not be forced to pay the costs of bailing out bankers, developers and speculators. Education is a right...not a privilege.

    Um, graduate tax and fees are the exact same thing. You pay for your education. Whether it be paying back a loan after college, or paying through graduate tax.

    Education in Ireland is severely underfunded. Fine Gael's graduate tax proposal was hilariously awful. And moreover, at least Fianna Fáil admit that they want to introduce fees.. Fine Gael have the cheek to go along to anti-fees protest, while still wanting to implement backdoor fees. Scumbags.

    Education should be funded through general tax. Introducing fees will create a barrier for many people.

    Introducing graduate tax will put heavy financial pressure on people who are just beginning to start a new home and family.. and as seen in Australia, will actually provoke skilled workers to emigrate, thus taking alot of wealth from the economy.

    No to fees, or graduate tax. We had a wealthy economy for the past decade and then some, but our Government did not invest what they should have into our education, and that is blatantly evident on the OECD table. Now we the students are paying the price.


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    #100
    sr. kila
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭sr. kila


    please help.....................
    i have been out of the countryy for the last four weeks. i missed the budget and im due to be starting 3rd level this year. can someone tell me whats happening with the college fees..


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    #101
    Dboy85
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Dboy85


    sr. kila wrote: »
    please help.....................
    i have been out of the countryy for the last four weeks. i missed the budget and im due to be starting 3rd level this year. can someone tell me whats happening with the college fees..

    Your bolloxed! They brought back student fees and sexual sacrafice of your ma:pac: lol


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    #102
    sr. kila
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭sr. kila


    ya thanks..... any real answers.....no offence


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    #103
    Dboy85
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Dboy85


    sr. kila wrote: »
    ya thanks..... any real answers.....no offence

    Sorry that was my attempt at bein funny. As far as I know they didnt change anything yet


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    #104
    BertrandMeyer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭BertrandMeyer


    Dboy85 wrote: »
    Your bolloxed! They brought back student fees and sexual sacrafice of your ma:pac: lol

    Personal abuse. I'm telling Boston.


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    #105
    OneArt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭OneArt


    BertrandMeyer wrote: »
    Personal abuse. I'm telling Boston.

    Omfg rofl lawlz internet drama!!1 lmao

    The Internet: Serious Business.


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    #106
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Pollythene Pam wrote: »
    Only the people who can afford college fee's will be asked to pay.
    Everyone who applies for college will be means-tested and if they or their parents earn more than the limit, they will be asked to pay.
    If it was anything like the grant system, whereby if both your parents worked you pretty much don't get it, I'd say a lot of people will fall into the bracket of "being able to pay it".


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    #107
    Dboy85
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Dboy85


    BertrandMeyer wrote: »
    Personal abuse. I'm telling Boston.

    Pwease dont i'm only ikkle


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    #108
    Kopf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Kopf


    sr. kila wrote: »
    please help.....................
    i have been out of the countryy for the last four weeks. i missed the budget and im due to be starting 3rd level this year. can someone tell me whats happening with the college fees..

    You're going to be great at researching.


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    #109
    Dboy85
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Dboy85


    Kopf wrote: »
    You're going to be great at researching.

    G....O...O...G...L...E is your friend lol:pac:


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    #110
    captainspeckle
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭captainspeckle


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    as a country we are no longer 'poor' low skilled and low paid jobs in this country are gonna disappear rapidly... we've moved up the ladder... as a result the government needs to change policys to take that into account... everything is more expensive now... we have the second highest minimim wage in europe, its a resession... we're not a poor country, we are at the point where fees for education is not uncalled for... they'll be a fraction of american fees and our healthcare is not being called into question...yet

    bit of a generalisation there. i for one, would def not be able to afford fees. even if i took out loans and what not. and i know lot of my friends and class mates are in the same position. of course there are some that could, but i wouldnt say that everyone benefitted equally from our previous prosperous years.


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    #111
    TERRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭TERRIC


    Can anyone clarify if those getting a college place this year will have to pay or will it kick off in 2010??? Anyone???

    VERY ANXIOUS


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    #112
    Dboy85
    Registered Users Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Dboy85


    TERRIC wrote: »
    Can anyone clarify if those getting a college place this year will have to pay or will it kick off in 2010??? Anyone???

    VERY ANXIOUS

    As far as I know sept 2010 but ive nothing concrete to back it up.


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    #113
    electrogrimey
    Registered Users Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭electrogrimey


    TERRIC wrote: »
    Can anyone clarify if those getting a college place this year will have to pay or will it kick off in 2010??? Anyone???

    VERY ANXIOUS

    Well the article in the Independent quoted earlier said:

    "And students who hope to avoid the payment by enrolling this September will not escape, as they will have to pay from 2010."

    but really nobody knows anthing concrete yet...

    As for melekalikimaka saying that means testing isn't really fair, I suppose you think income tax thresholds arn't really fair either? It's ridiculous to think that wealthy families should have to pay the same amount as families with low incomes. Even if means tests and grants are sometimes abused, I'm sure the amount of people fairly recieving support, and greatly appreciating it, is much higher than the few who manage to "scam" it.


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    #114
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    electrogrimey wrote: »
    but really nobody knows anthing concrete yet...

    As for melekalikimaka saying that means testing isn't really fair, I suppose you think income tax thresholds arn't really fair either? It's ridiculous to think that wealthy families should have to pay the same amount as families with low incomes. Even if means tests and grants are sometimes abused, I'm sure the amount of people fairly recieving support, and greatly appreciating it, is much higher than the few who manage to "scam" it.


    I think income tax thresholds are an acceptable evil. I just dont think you should be subject to discrimination by your own government because you pay more tax... kinda double smack in the face because the poor cant afford college... what do you think every other civilised nation does?


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    #115
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    You could argue that but getting the smartest people into colleges affordably is very important and they aren't all rich so the poor and middle class have to be able to get to college IMO if we are to have any hope of a knowledge economy.

    After a while it becomes those who benefited from grant education in good jobs that will be paying the taxes so it will even itself out.


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    #116
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    thebman wrote: »
    You could argue that but getting the smartest people into colleges affordably is very important and they aren't all rich so the poor and middle class have to be able to get to college IMO if we are to have any hope of a knowledge economy.

    After a while it becomes those who benefited from grant education in good jobs that will be paying the taxes so it will even itself out.

    i think if a decent loan system is introduced, which clearly it will, will be the fairest method, affordable loan for those who cant afford it, the impression i get off folk here is , if the parents CAN afford college for their child, the dont value money, 5 grand or whatever is a large sum o matter how rich you are, and just because they are in the position to pay it outright is hardly fair


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    #117
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    I don't like the idea of putting people in debt before they even leave the education system. It sends the wrong message about how to manage personal finances.

    If people have massive student loans to pay off, they'll be more inclined to take on other loans thinking sure what is the harm?

    I have a strong dislike of the idea and I despise the way the American education system works with people being in debt up to their eye balls by the time they leave college.

    I have my degree and graduated a few years ago so I've nothing financially to gain from not wanting fee's and it will probably cost me money in taxes. I'm still for them. I consider it one of the few good things in our society. The grant system needs reform however as when I was in college, it was booze money so people that don't need it are getting it.


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    #118
    mloc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    Our colleges are full of unmotivated, lowest-common denominator, aimless students being pushed through the system by countless repeat allowances, free fees and one of the most bizarrely over simplistic college entry systems in the world.

    What we need is not just fees but a total overhaul of the entry systems to remove the detritus and get our colleges back to generating the academic elite our country needs to be competitive.


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    #119
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Lol will need to weed out the worthless lectures too while we are at it.

    No system can prevent people going to college for the wrong reasons or because they don't know what they want to do so they aimlessly go into a course they have no interest in.

    Countless repeats? You have to pay to repeat I don't think that is an issue really. People should be able to have a second chance, maybe cap it at that.

    Colleges aren't like secondary schools, if people can't keep up they will fail. If anything is to blame it is the marking system and exam system for letting people that don't deserve to pass get through. That is the problem. How will fee's prevent easy marking, they won't.


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    #120
    electrogrimey
    Registered Users Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭electrogrimey


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    I think income tax thresholds are an acceptable evil. I just dont think you should be subject to discrimination by your own government because you pay more tax... kinda double smack in the face because the poor cant afford college... what do you think every other civilised nation does?

    The poor? Who are you, the Queen? Or are you just horrible prejudiced? And it's not "because you pay more tax", it's because you earn more...


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    #121
    electrogrimey
    Registered Users Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭electrogrimey


    melekalikimaka wrote: »
    I think income tax thresholds are an acceptable evil. I just dont think you should be subject to discrimination by your own government because you pay more tax... kinda double smack in the face because the poor cant afford college... what do you think every other civilised nation does?

    The poor? Who are you, the Queen? Or are you just horribly prejudiced? And it's not "because you pay more tax", it's because you earn more...


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