The "Big Fellahs" Webly up for auction

Grizzly 45

Folks,
This is IMO a tragedy that should not be allowed...
This is a piece of our history that proably saw alot and was part of the bloody birth of our nation.It should not be allowed to be auctioned off like this.This should be up in the national museum with Dev's Mauser Broomhandle pistol.I mean what will we flog off next???The book Of Kells???Have we really become what Oscar Wilde said.."Knowing the price of everything,and the value of nothing"..

Wonder is it still live or deacted?And if so how will the buyer get it liscensed??;):eek:









The Big Fellow is big business

Collins memorabilia star attraction at auction



A revolver thought to have belonged to Michael Collins will be auctioned this weekend at the RDS

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By Jason O'Brien
Thursday March 12 2009

THE Big Fellow, it seems, is big business. A Webley revolver taken from Michael Collins' car shortly after his death in August 1922, and catalogued as "probably General Collins' own sidearm", is the star attraction in an upcoming auction of 500 lots that span 2,500 years.
The Whyte's History and Literature sale, which takes place on Saturday, is expected to raise approximately €350,000, with a range of unique items including a 17th century stone bow, a button taken from Padraig Pearse's tunic before he was executed, and a limited edition replica of the Book of Kells.
There is also a photograph showing the stark image of Collins lying in state. Other versions of the image can be found in the National Library Of Ireland archives, but they are rarely seen.
Tens of thousands of mourners filed past his casket to pay their respects during the three- day period when his body lay in state in Dublin City Hall in August 1922. This image is expected to sell for up to €300.
"There is something for everyone," Ian Whyte, managing director of the auction house, said yesterday.
"This market doesn't get too affected by the recession because it's genuine collectors and, to be honest, they'd probably hock the wife and children to buy what they want."
Mr Whyte believes that a large number of the items -- including manuscripts and memorabilia concerning Eamon de Valera, Arthur Griffith, Tomas Clarke, and Thomas MacDonagh -- are coming to market now because some attitudes are finally softening.
"When I started this business years ago, a lot of people wouldn't mention the War of Independence or the Civil War," he said.
"They didn't want to mention they were involved. And if they were on the other side, they didn't want to mention fighting in World War I maybe.
"But now that it's come to great grandsons and daughters, the families are happy to sell it, partly because it doesn't hold the same meaning for them."
And then there is the small matter of money. The revolver, for example, is expected to realise between €50,000 and €70,000. It was found in 1922 by a Ciss Forde, the great aunt of the vendor.
Correspondence
A car carrying Mr Collins' body had become bogged down as it travelled to Cork, and was left abandoned. Ms Forde searched the car, and hid the revolver she found in the attic of the family pub.
Photos, memorial cards, various correspondence and even Christmas cards from the Big Fellow are included, and all look set to realise good prices as people bid for a piece of history.
From the same period, Mr Pearse's tunic button -- given to his mother Margaret after his execution -- is predicted to make up to €30,000. Some believe it was removed to prevent a ricochet shortly before he was executed for his part in the Easter Rising on May 5 1916. His mother subsequently had it engraved with the date and his initials.
There is also a stunning dress uniform that was worn by Captain Matthew Cahill Connery when he was in the Free State Army.
But it is not just Ireland in the early 20th century -- there are also bonds issued in America to fund the Fenian Rising of 1867, a large bronze torc dating from 500BC, portraits of Michael Davitt and, latterly, rare signed editions from Seamus Heaney.
Viewing starts in the RDS, Dublin, today at noon, with the auction taking place on Saturday at the same venue.
- Jason O'Brien

ticles in todays Indo.

Meyer

Its deactivated... The full catalogue of Irish history being squandered out to private collectors is here :mad:, whytes

Trojan911

Grizz,

I'm wondering if the serial number matches the holster (if there is one on the holster) would be worth a few bob, no doubt.

Yes, an awful shame if it was to leave the country. Should be left in a museum for public viewing.

Rovi

The full auction catalogue is here (4.3MB):
http://www.whytes.ie/WHYTES%20(HIST.14%20MAR).pdf

Attached should be the page detailing the Collins Webley.

This bit of the text makes me despair:

auction catalogue wrote:

Note: Whyte’s have had the weapon professionally decommissioned by a licensed gun dealer in order to comply with the law regarding firearms. It is legal to possess or sell this weapon in its present state in the Republic of Ireland.

:(:(

The eejits don't know the law or were badly advised and have now neutered a very significant piece of Irish history, significantly reducing its value too, in my opinion.


Incidentally, either Collins was a ciotóg and managed to persuade Webley to build him a lefty revolver, or the Indo have the picture the wrong way around.

sfakiaman

Rovi wrote: »

The eejits don't know the law or were badly advised and have now neutered a very significant piece of Irish history, significantly reducing its value too, in my opinion.


Incidentally, either Collins was a ciotóg and managed to persuade Webley to build him a lefty revolver, or the Indo have the picture the wrong way around.

Sad to think a gunsmith would do this without advice from the very top.

Well spotted re ciotóg revolver, Indo's fault, catalogue has it the right way round.

kowloon

Rovi wrote: »

The eejits don't know the law or were badly advised and have now neutered a very significant piece of Irish history, significantly reducing its value too, in my opinion.

Some kind of provision, possibly an obsolete calibre list, is needed to protect things like this happening (although we don't have a deactivation policy either).
Currently all we have is a guideline which requires the gun to be smoothbored, pre-1845, and it can't use metallic cartridges.
So we have a case where it would not be considered unreasonable for the local super to require someone to have their 200+ year old rifle welded and drilled. The other alternative is to pay up for a restricted licence - due to the vast majority of pre 1880 firearms being over .308. If being a member of a club becomes a legal requirement things could get even messier.

Grizzly 45

Wonder what the story is with the medival Xbow and the1905 Howth Mauser as well?Both seem to be working ,and not deacted,and both would require certs as well to posses?

kowloon

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Wonder what the story is with the medival Xbow and the1905 Howth Mauser as well?Both seem to be working ,and not deacted,and both would require certs as well to posses?

I'd imagine, to follow the letter of the law, they do. The Howth Mausers would all be on the restricted list aswell, seeing as they're 11mm. Not sure if any of the G71s Childers brought in we 71/84s, in which case they have high capacity mags too :rolleyes:.

V Bull

My kids tell me that Collin's revolver went to an Irish buyer for approx 72,000 Euro, can anyone confirm this please ?

It wasn't me!

V Bull wrote: »

My kids tell me that Collin's revolver went to an Irish buyer for approx 72,000 Euro, can anyone confirm this please ?

Heard that on the news alright. It's staying in the country anyway. Shame it won't be in a national museum though.

chem

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Heard that on the news alright. It's staying in the country anyway. Shame it won't be in a national museum though.

Was listening to news talk the other day and they had a bloke on from the auction room. The presenter asked if there was any interest from the national museums and he said the they had several pistols that belonged to himself in there collection. He owned more then one pistol in his life time, unlike us now:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

Didnt be any chance mention where they were or what they were??

foxshooter243

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Didnt be any chance mention where they were or what they were??

a luger was his preferred carry piece;)

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-20380317_ITM

Grizzly 45

Intresting,so I was that in his days as C in C of the IRA/Minister of Defence? and then when the Irish Free State Army came into being the issued sidearm to officers were Weblys? Would then be logical that he would be carrying an "issue" revolver as Commandant?

foxshooter243

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Intresting,so I was that in his days as C in C of the IRA/Minister of Defence? and then when the Irish Free State Army came into being the issued sidearm to officers were Weblys? Would then be logical that he would be carrying an "issue" revolver as Commandant?

when the treaty was signed and Mick was given the support of the British Government, his issue pistol was a webley 455 eley calibre revolver.
However he was known to have carried several different pistols during the war of Independance, one of his particular favourites being a mauser broomhandle,he was also known to carry a colt new service revolver in 455 eley calibre, this was one of the pistols shown in the film bearing his name when he confronted Ned Broy outside the pub.

As there are several pistols belonging to the Big Fella in the museum, it
has to be argued that his 455 webley pales into insignifigance when comparing it to those he used during the war of Independance.

Now!..to save anyone the bother of posting about my terminlogy in the use of the word pistol whilst describing a revolver ill say this..when Samuel
Colt patented his revolver, he patented it as a" revolving pistol".... all handguns are pistols regardless of the current euophoria in the pistol shooting world that tries to differentiate between revolving cylinder guns and those with a magazine.Ill stick with sam colts version of terminology;)