not a pot to piddle in

spinaltap

I am discusted to hear there is no money in the pot, where has it gone, has it been squandered, spent, lost, robbed.
The goverment for the last 3.5 years has known that the property bubble was going to burst, there main income for the exchequer was stamp duty, vrt etc, no one is buying cars and no one is trading up or down in the property market..
So with this information what did the government do in the last 3 years, NOTHING, WELL NOTHING TO REPORT THAT YOU WOULD NOT BE not be EMBARASSED ABOUT.
We got rid Of Bertie, ( he went b4 he was outed as the crook he was) .
In fairness you could not have timed it better, the curtains fell like a shakespaerean play , and the crownd applauded, sure wernt they happy , they had 2 houses, one for a pension and one for renting out, a villa in spain, one in Bulgaria( mafia run) (comfort zone) a car (4x4) that is sending the world into a carbon footprint spin and a 10 foot fishtank that you could drown a small county, with enough water left to wash the classic car in the Garage.
So you may ask , like me where did it go go wrong.......SURE ITS A GLOBAL DOWNTURN , A CORRECTION OF PRICES...................
Forget the excuses.... the goverment Did not prepare for the enivitable..didnt keep any dough for what they knew was coming, did they know it was going to be this bad.....BLOODY RIGHT THEY DID, IT WILL GET WORSE.
Who will Pay you may ask..... sure its the firemans fault, the nurses, the Gardai, the lower Paid public sector, lets hike them with a pension levy cos they were there when we fell the goverment , like an old oak tree.
We took the Leaves, we dug around it, we chopped at the branches and expected it would never end.....PUT YOUR MONEY INTO PROPERTY....
That was instilled in me when I was a kid, so we did, and we did and we did.
So now people have over inflated negative equity houses, NOT TO WORRY THE BANK HAVE BEEN BAILED OUT.
What about the normal Joe that has a morgage for a house that is now worth 150k less, are they been bailed out, unless you are a builder with anglo irish or a banker ur off the hook , otherwise, SURE WERNT U SPECULATING.
So what next, in my opinion, get rid of the current crooks in the dail, Fine gael arnt much better, sinn fein are a joke, the greens are on the band wagon, and labour does know there ass from there elbow.
My suggestion is , bring in Econominists, accountants, people from the private sector who have proven themselves, with a excelent track record in business, instead of the shambolic crew of chancers we have.
GET OUT LIKE BERTIES DID LADS, B4 ITS TO LATE....

SkepticOne

Where has the money gone? A lot of it was never really there in the first place. We merely overvalued each other's assets.

spinaltap wrote:

My suggestion is , bring in Econominists, accountants, people from the private sector who have proven themselves, with a excelent track record in business

The problem is that many of these were just as delusional as the politicians that got us into this mess.

ongarite

I'm getting sick of this ranting "where is the money gone". The truth is that the majority of it went on YOU and ME and lots of others.
Its like people have blinkers on and can't see what they have gotten over the past 10 years.
Have YOU not had increases in minimum wage, lowest rate of standard tax ever, lowest rate of higher tax ever, massive increases in tax bands & credits, increases in mortgage interest relief, dole, children's allowance, benchmarking and many many others..

The government spent all the surplus money on YOU and ME every budget time becasue we demanded it be.

Now that we have to give back some of the things we got over the last 12 years, we are all having a big f*cking moan about it.

silverharp

ongarite wrote: »

Now that we have to give back some of the things we got over the last 12 years, we are all having a big f*cking moan about it.

Its a pity nobody told Paddy to put something aside for this:pac:

spinaltap

ongarite wrote: »

I'm getting sick of this ranting "where is the money gone". The truth is that the majority of it went on YOU and ME and lots of others.
Its like people have blinkers on and can't see what they have gotten over the past 10 years.
Have YOU not had increases in minimum wage, lowest rate of standard tax ever, lowest rate of higher tax ever, massive increases in tax bands & credits, increases in mortgage interest relief, dole, children's allowance, benchmarking and many many others..

The government spent all the surplus money on YOU and ME every budget time becasue we demanded it be.

Now that we have to give back some of the things we got over the last 12 years, we are all having a big f*cking moan about it.

Let me explain a little more in depth perhaps
Minimun wage has increased as we could not have bought houses with it.
Morgarge relief as it wasnt realistic in paying a morgage.
Lowest tax rate.. that tends to happen on having low employment.
Increases in Dole payments.. sure that will pay for your repayment in the over inflated, negative equity property.
Childrens allowance has always been sustainable.
Benachmarking for public sector to ensure parity with private sector.

Not moaning , just stating facts.
3. SCENARIOS

1. your a high paid public servant.
2. Your a devolper given the easy chair instaed of the bold chair.
3. a T.D getting the 2,300 euro rise.

Either way if you cant see the problem, Your not livin in the real world.
Another realm perhaps, maybe another solar system, an alien.
Are you a fan of star trek , I hear on the grapevine there a convention in the RDS , TICKETS ARE OUT OF THIS WORLD

I

ongarite

Far from it.
I'm a private sector worker who has had a pay-freeze, then pay-cut, lost 40% on my pension last but I'm not complaining as I still have a job till the end of the year anyway.

Again your having a rant about property and blaming the government for it all. It was the greed and unrealistic expectations of buyers, sellers, banks that got us into the mess we are in now.
Did the government force you at gunpoint to buy that house you could barely afford before interest rates went up or you exaggerated on your mortgage approval forms?
Take some personal responsibility for your own actions however wreckless they may have been.

kippy

ongarite wrote: »

I'm getting sick of this ranting "where is the money gone". The truth is that the majority of it went on YOU and ME and lots of others.
Its like people have blinkers on and can't see what they have gotten over the past 10 years.
Have YOU not had increases in minimum wage, lowest rate of standard tax ever, lowest rate of higher tax ever, massive increases in tax bands & credits, increases in mortgage interest relief, dole, children's allowance, benchmarking and many many others..

The government spent all the surplus money on YOU and ME every budget time becasue we demanded it be.

Now that we have to give back some of the things we got over the last 12 years, we are all having a big f*cking moan about it.

Great post,
People need to see this.
Wages, cost of living are part of a vicious circle. Now both need to come down.
Kippy

spinaltap

I am one of the lucky ones

I bought a house 10 years ago, still have a good job and for the foreseeable future.
No one was pushed into buying property I agree with you there, but our parents instilled this into us, that suto do well was to have firstly a wife you love and kids you adore and a house to be proud of, I am quoting my own mother here, I am sure it is the same for many others.
I do blame the goverment, as It had3 years to think of other possibilities of raising tax for the exchequer.
I blame the finacial regulator and the banks, also that surveyors that told the people , yes that house is worth 30k more than it was last week.
Bring in David mac williams and the likes, cos our guys cant sort it.

the_syco

Ehhh... if the banks weren't bailed out, they wouldn't give out loans to SME's, or give anyone mortgages... you do know that, don't you?

spinaltap wrote: »

I am quoting my own mother here, I am sure it is the same for many others.

No. Out of all my friends, the only one who bought a house was someone who lived up in Galway. He bought it waith his wife, and at a lot cheaper than houses were going for...

kippy

spinaltap wrote: »

I am one of the lucky ones

I bought a house 10 years ago, still have a good job and for the foreseeable future.
No one was pushed into buying property I agree with you there, but our parents instilled this into us, that suto do well was to have firstly a wife you love and kids you adore and a house to be proud of, I am quoting my own mother here, I am sure it is the same for many others.
I do blame the goverment, as It had3 years to think of other possibilities of raising tax for the exchequer.
I blame the finacial regulator and the banks, also that surveyors that told the people , yes that house is worth 30k more than it was last week.
Bring in David mac williams and the likes, cos our guys cant sort it.

David McWilliams is all well and good etc, but when it comes to making and more importantly implementing decisions in the real world there are far more things than facts and figures that get in the way, namely unions and people.
The government merely did what it was mandated to by the majority. Sadly one of the drawbacks of democracy. You got to go with the decisions of the majority. They screwed it up but there werent many of us complaining till lately.
I doubt ANY lessons will be learned this time round either.

spinaltap

I am fully aware about the Irish banking system and how it works.
Pat Neary and the anglo gang have made that very clear.
If you asked for a morgaage 10 years ago , you were spoon fed about what you could lend if u said " I do overime, nixers etc"
Now they are making a point of looking for details.
I recieved a 10k remorgage for works on my own property over te phone and recieved a check with the month, thiose days are long gone.....
Proper Bnking is what is needed

kippy

spinaltap wrote: »

I am fully aware about the Irish banking system and how it works.
Pat Neary and the anglo gang have made that very clear.
If you asked for a morgaage 10 years ago , you were spoon fed about what you could lend if u said " I do overime, nixers etc"
Now they are making a point of looking for details.
I recieved a 10k remorgage for works on my own property over te phone and recieved a check with the month, thiose days are long gone.....
Proper Bnking is what is needed

Define proper banking?

jimmmy

ongarite wrote: »

The government spent all the surplus money on YOU and ME

They did not spend much money on me. I remember giving them hundreds of thousands over the years between all the different taxes. It is known they spent much of it on themselves and their employees.

jmayo

ongarite wrote: »

I'm getting sick of this ranting "where is the money gone". The truth is that the majority of it went on YOU and ME and lots of others.
Its like people have blinkers on and can't see what they have gotten over the past 10 years.
Have YOU not had increases in minimum wage, lowest rate of standard tax ever, lowest rate of higher tax ever, massive increases in tax bands & credits, increases in mortgage interest relief, dole, children's allowance, benchmarking and many many others..

The government spent all the surplus money on YOU and ME every budget time becasue we demanded it be.

Now that we have to give back some of the things we got over the last 12 years, we are all having a big f*cking moan about it.

Hang on a minute as jimmy pointed out, we may have had lower direct taxes but apart form that where else did we get lavished all this increased tax revenue.
I don't remember my car tax, TV license going down in value ?
Did VRT go down ?
If your hadn't your snout in the public trough, then a lot of these increasd expenditure passed you by.

I wasn't subject to benchmarking as public sector workers were, I didn't benefit from the government buying my land to be used in decentralisation or as a prison site.
The government wasted billions on pet projects and public sector disasters that under normal revenue constraints would have caused huge uproar.
As it was people bitched and moaned, but because the money coming into the revenue was huge we quickly moved on.

Remember some of these ...

• a few hundred million on a stadium that never was
• a swimming pool complex that had a leaky roof
• a tunnel that was delivered late and over budget that still doesn't meet safety standards
• a couple of non meeting Luas lines that were behind schedule and way over budget
• sites bought had huge costs for a decentralisation project that never got backing of unions and won't happen
• site bought at huge cost for new prison
• PPARS project
• Electronic voting
• road infrastruicture projects using cost plus
• M50 toll bridge
• Fás
• HSE formation yet no removal of duplication across the system

ongarite wrote: »

Far from it.
I'm a private sector worker who has had a pay-freeze, then pay-cut, lost 40% on my pension last but I'm not complaining as I still have a job till the end of the year anyway.

Again your having a rant about property and blaming the government for it all. It was the greed and unrealistic expectations of buyers, sellers, banks that got us into the mess we are in now.
Did the government force you at gunpoint to buy that house you could barely afford before interest rates went up or you exaggerated on your mortgage approval forms?
Take some personal responsibility for your own actions however wreckless they may have been.

Yes I totally agree people should take personal responsibility for their actions and shdouln't not be looking for scapegoats and bailouts.
(Check my other posts on this if you want)
But (and it is a big one) the government and county councils have a lot to answer for and they should not be let of the f888ing hook.

A hell of a lot of people got greedy and climbed on board the gravy train to easy riches, but the government actively helped this by allowing speculators and investors have free ride, which pushed up prices for people buying HOMES and thus wage demands.

BTW the government also incentivised investment in property in certain areas through section chemes.
Leitrim and Roscommon are awash with empty properties thanks to soem of these schemes.
Then they never tried to rain in 100% mortgages which were a complete joke. They just saw stamp duty, VAT returns and of course their building and banking buddies were buying helicopters, yatchs and fancy mansions.

Daithinski

ongarite wrote: »

I'm getting sick of this ranting "where is the money gone". The truth is that the majority of it went on YOU and ME and lots of others.

This is true, it basically did go to the population of Ireland (including lots of migrant workers)

The money isn't gone as such. It didn't disappear in the night.

It just isn't in our economy any more.

oscarBravo

the_syco wrote: »

Ehhh... if the banks weren't bailed out, they wouldn't give out loans to SME's...

They still won't. The CEO of Aer Arran - a much bigger company than mine - pointed out that with an annual turnover of €100m, they can't get a €1,000 overdraft.

Sleepy

oscarBravo wrote: »

They still won't. The CEO of Aer Arran - a much bigger company than mine - pointed out that with an annual turnover of €100m, they can't get a €1,000 overdraft.

Aren't they making huge losses though?

oscarBravo

I don't know. I know my business isn't, and I still can't get more than a €1300 credit limit on the company MasterCard.

Dannyboy83

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't know. I know my business isn't, and I still can't get more than a €1300 credit limit on the company MasterCard.

This sounds insane!

What about the Billion AIB and BOI have gotten?

oscarBravo

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

What about the Billion AIB and BOI have gotten?

What about it?

Dr Galen

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This sounds insane!

What about the Billion AIB and BOI have gotten?

small change

K-9

ongarite wrote: »

I'm getting sick of this ranting "where is the money gone". The truth is that the majority of it went on YOU and ME and lots of others.
Its like people have blinkers on and can't see what they have gotten over the past 10 years.
Have YOU not had increases in minimum wage, lowest rate of standard tax ever, lowest rate of higher tax ever, massive increases in tax bands & credits, increases in mortgage interest relief, dole, children's allowance, benchmarking and many many others..

The government spent all the surplus money on YOU and ME every budget time becasue we demanded it be.

Now that we have to give back some of the things we got over the last 12 years, we are all having a big f*cking moan about it.

YEP, don't remember too many marches to hand it back. No tax or PRSI on minimum wage is a great idea, the problem is when it's on the second highest one in Europe.

Our PRSI system is a joke, we don't pay half what many other European pay and therefore don't get the services they get. "I may my taxes" I hear you say, yep, sadly not enough obviously.

spinaltap wrote: »

Let me explain a little more in depth perhaps
Minimun wage has increased as we could not have bought houses with it.
Morgarge relief as it wasnt realistic in paying a morgage.
Lowest tax rate.. that tends to happen on having low employment.
Increases in Dole payments.. sure that will pay for your repayment in the over inflated, negative equity property.
Childrens allowance has always been sustainable.
Benachmarking for public sector to ensure parity with private sector.

I

Lowest tax rate does not necessarily need to happen!

The increases in mortgage interest relief to cover €20,000 INTEREST A year for FTB's is a joke.

Instead of targetting increases in child allowance at childcare, we all want it instead.

spinaltap wrote: »

I am one of the lucky ones

I bought a house 10 years ago, still have a good job and for the foreseeable future.
No one was pushed into buying property I agree with you there, but our parents instilled this into us, that suto do well was to have firstly a wife you love and kids you adore and a house to be proud of, I am quoting my own mother here, I am sure it is the same for many others.
I do blame the goverment, as It had3 years to think of other possibilities of raising tax for the exchequer.
I blame the finacial regulator and the banks, also that surveyors that told the people , yes that house is worth 30k more than it was last week.
Bring in David mac williams and the likes, cos our guys cant sort it.

I bought into the property thing, then bought out of it when I seen what was happening. Many said what would happen, we were told to shut up.

jmayo wrote: »

Hang on a minute as jimmy pointed out, we may have had lower direct taxes but apart form that where else did we get lavished all this increased tax revenue.
I don't remember my car tax, TV license going down in value ?
Did VRT go down ?
If your hadn't your snout in the public trough, then a lot of these increasd expenditure passed you by.

VRT? Not too many were bothered by it when they were buying the new luxury cars and 4*4's!

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't know. I know my business isn't, and I still can't get more than a €1300 credit limit on the company MasterCard.

And this is were the Govts. need to get tough. At least today I see reports of limiting Bank CEO salaries to under €500,000. Next part is making sure that they use the bail outs to lend properly and not shore up balance sheets. Profitable businesses are still out there to lend to.