What's the root cause for the very poor quality of our political leaders?

Darragh29

Naz_st wrote: »

It seems to me that the mainstream irish political parties are very centrist and lack conviction on most issues, constantly trying to appease everyone. This means that they flip-flop on issues as the wind changes and the goal of the opposition party is reduced to deriding any proposals of the party in power. At least in the U.S. the "race for the middle" generally happens once every 4 years as the presidential campaign seasons begin. Here, it seems a constant facet of domestic politics.
And, as another poster has mentioned, party members almost always vote along party lines which makes bi-partisanship effectively impossible. The party in power has no accountability and can push through any legislation without consultation or any sort of agreement. At least over in the States for example there is often a need to appeal for cross party support and the president is genuinely powerless to stop legislation with true bi-partisan support. (although less so now over there with democratic control of the house, senate & presidential office)

They are wasters every last one of them that gravitate towards easy well paid jobs with no real responsibility. There is a reason why most of them are overweight and have 10 chins, because they are overfed wasters the lot of them.

stepbar

Darragh29 wrote: »

For Christs sake, how hard is it to take a small community of no more than 3,000 people off the streets and get them into some sort of employment and self sufficiency??? If there was the will to do it, it would be done long ago.

It's the same old crap in this country with everything, taskforces, bullsh*t conferences and hot air shops are the order of the day with everything. I don't accept that any issue facing this country, cannot be resolved with hard work and some cop on. The people who we elect to sort out these issues, who we pay over 100K a year to deal with these type of problems, are simply not up to it, they don't know how to approach a problem and how to resolve it. They are up for talking about it, planning meetings about it and arranging expenses for everyone who is involved in talking about it, but as for resolving it, not a chance.

Darragh, your missing my point entirely. If the homeless people themselves had the will to keep themselves off the street we wouldn't have the problem we have in the first place. The social welfare system is quite adequate to allow an individual get themselves back on their feet if the will is there. The government isn't going to solve everyones problems, people have to take some responcibility for their own lifes.

stepbar

Darragh29 wrote: »

They are wasters every last one of them that gravitate towards easy well paid jobs with no real responsibility. There is a reason why most of them are overweight and have 10 chins, because they are overfed wasters the lot of them.

Darragh, it's very easy for someone like yourself to get up on a soap box and give out. Why don't you go for politics yourself seeing that's its an avenue to create the change that you are advocating for.

Darragh29

stepbar wrote: »

Darragh, it's very easy for someone like yourself to get up on a soap box and give out. Why don't you go for politics yourself seeing that's its an avenue to create the change that you are advocating for.

'Cos I'm too busy running my own businesses and trying to create a few jobs for folks. I'm not up on a soap box, I consider the running and administration of the country as a serious and important duty. Why do I look at the people who are charged with this massive responsiblity and see fat overweight wasters who are in no fit shape to do anything???

A girl I know from Offaly today told me that when she goes home for the weekend, it is a well known local fact that Brian Cowen when he is in Offaly, is permanently in a pub???

How the f*ck are we going to put the country back together again when the man at the top apparently is spending all his time in a pub???

Darragh29

stepbar wrote: »

Darragh, your missing my point entirely. If the homeless people themselves had the will to keep themselves off the street we wouldn't have the problem we have in the first place. The social welfare system is quite adequate to allow an individual get themselves back on their feet if the will is there. The government isn't going to solve everyones problems, people have to take some responcibility for their own lifes.

If homeless people had the ability THEMSELVES to get out of their situation, then obviously there wouldn't be any homeless people! The reality of the situation is that these people are isolated and need support and encouragement to lift themselves out of the gutter and believe in a better life for themselves. Their biggest problem is probably one of motivation and self belief. A two second look at any homeless person will tell you this. Do you think we need consultants reports and probation reports and committees and working groups and taskforces to tell us all this, do you???

bonkey

Pride Fighter wrote: »

We need people of passion and conviction.

We need competent people, ideally with passion and conviction.

deadhead13

stepbar wrote: »

The government isn't going to solve everyones problems, people have to take some responcibility for their own lifes.

We have inadequate Mental health services. Hence, it is no surprise that a large number of homeless people have mental health problems. An equally large number of people living on our streets have been in institutional care as children. Why is this? The government does have to take some responsiblity.

NatDonegal

Honestly, i think a competent candidate with passion, that puts forward tough, unpopular but necessary solutions would not get elected. Because the irish don't seem to like being told that tough decisions need to be made.

IMO I would love to see somebody with work ethic and enough authority to reform the public sector, take on the unions and not give in to them, fire unproductive public servants without golden handshakes or redundancy, cut social welfare payments (they are not supposed to be comfortable to live on - otherwise where is the incentive to find employment?). Raise taxes if necessary... keep the minimum wage low - as otherwise we lose our competitiveness... etc etc

But would the people elect such a candidate??

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

bobbbb

I think the problem now is that the politicians have forgotten that they actually work for us. They think they are
Royalty of something now.

K4t

NatDonegal wrote: »

Honestly, i think a competent candidate with passion, that puts forward tough, unpopular but necessary solutions would not get elected. Because the irish don't seem to like being told that tough decisions need to be made.

IMO I would love to see somebody with work ethic and enough authority to reform the public sector, take on the unions and not give in to them, fire unproductive public servants without golden handshakes or redundancy, cut social welfare payments (they are not supposed to be comfortable to live on - otherwise where is the incentive to find employment?). Raise taxes if necessary... keep the minimum wage low - as otherwise we lose our competitiveness... etc etc

But would the people elect such a candidate??

Yes, yes that's all good and well. But what about the private sector and the banks who have ripped this country off for years now. Let them away with muder as per usual?

NatDonegal

K4t wrote: »

Yes, yes that's all good and well. But what about the private sector and the banks who have ripped this country off for years now. Let them away with muder as per usual?

This is not a public vs private sector thread. My point for this topic is that people are partly to blame for the poor quality of our government, because we would not vote candidates with necessary policies to power.. as it's not what we like to hear. Whether it means cutting back on public spending and tackling the lack of ethics in some areas of the private sector.

otwb

Overrepresentation,

if I get you planning permission then your familys votes have a good chance of getting me elected. In a system with less TD's then looking after the needs of the majority, rather than the local minority, will win out giving a better result for the country.

..that and the fact that people are stuck in voting cartels...it looks as if you are far more likely to be elected if your family were politicians and shown to be corrupt at some point in the past.. . at the end of the day we are stuck with this system until we get ourselves away from voting based on the parish we grew up in and look at the bigger picture.

otwb

NatDonegal wrote: »

IMO I would love to see somebody with work ethic and enough authority to reform the public sector, take on the unions and not give in to them, fire unproductive public servants without golden handshakes or redundancy, cut social welfare payments (they are not supposed to be comfortable to live on - otherwise where is the incentive to find employment?). Raise taxes if necessary... keep the minimum wage low - as otherwise we lose our competitiveness... etc etc

But would the people elect such a candidate??

Hate to say it, but was that not Mary Harney ?

Scofflaw

One problem I see is that politicians are only in this for politics. Playing games with other politicians. Its not about actually leading or improving our country. Its about scoring points against other politicians, and gaining some manner of status.

I would place the lack of any accountability on Politicians are being part of the problem. They're not responsible for their actions. They can do as little as they wish, and nothing will happen to them. They can be corrupt, and outright criminal and they're bound to get away scot free.

For myself, I don't see anything changing until we start chopping heads. Its like every area of Irish government. They're allowed to retain their jobs, even though there's no need for them. Its a way of keeping useless people in authority, and allowing them to keep all those lovely benefits. I'd love to see a witch-hunt go through ALL levels of government and oust all those that can't explicity show how they benefit the country... I'd also love to see massive financial penalties brought in against politicians who fail to attend to their offices, and those who obviously corrupt. Until we do this, it will continue as before.

Its the Irish mentality when it comes to politics (all levels). We know they're corrupt, and out of touch with the people... but its the way its always been, so why change it? After all, other people will just vote them in regardless of how we feel.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Plus, of course, people go into politics far too early. Many of our TDs have virtually no experience outside politics, having run for Councillor in their twenties, and climbed up the ladder from there - and most of those that do have some experience outside politics were either civil or public servants.

glumly,
Scofflaw

Actually, I'd disagree about the age factor since our politicians for the most part are too old by the time they ever get into anything resembling authority. They're stuck in their ways, and get confused if they have to move outside the "traditional" norms. There is very little flexibility in their thinking, and most of them have gained a "party" mentality.

Dannyboy83

Most are born with the silver spoon and become barristers or something similar before getting a 200k pay cheque.
Must be hard to relate to Joe Bloggs trying to pay for his mortgage and kids on E35k per year, when you'd probably spend that on 1 decent holiday.

Besides that its a slezy parliamentary system, you have to grease the right wheels, lick the right asses and work your way up the ranks with the cloak and dagger.

Some people/politicians have the capacity to change things, but not necessarily the ruthlessness to climb to the top.

Its rare that a politician actually does enforce a change for the better of the country that affects most people.
The last one I remember is Michael Martin with the smoking ban.

lucozader

life isn't fair

Johnboy Mac

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Most are born with the silver spoon and become barristers or something similar before getting a 200k pay cheque.
Must be hard to relate to Joe Bloggs trying to pay for his mortgage and kids on E35k per year, when you'd probably spend that on 1 decent holiday.

Besides that its a slezy parliamentary system, you have to grease the right wheels, lick the right asses and work your way up the ranks with the cloak and dagger.

Some people/politicians have the capacity to change things, but not necessarily the ruthlessness to climb to the top.

Its rare that a politician actually does enforce a change for the better of the country that affects most people.
The last one I remember is Michael Martin with the smoking ban.

As a lay person the only things I can recall our government doing worth while for the public at large was introducting the smoking ban (ignoring the publicians for once) and the tax on plastic bags.

Even if they have done other things worth while I'm sad to say I can't recall them. Sort of sums up this government?

Fighting Irish

I think the problem is we usually vote for the people who can talk the talk.
I'm crap at explaining stuff but its a bit like a job interview, you could have one guy who is excellent at what he does but is a crap talker/waffler then you have another guy who is crap at what he does but could talk/waffle for Ireland.

I also think that every gov job should include some sort of IQ test, we need common sense more than anything else

wilson10

Large successful companies succeed by having qualified people heading up departments.
What qualifications do our politicians have for running a country?
I see this as the main problem.
Would Michael O'Leary take a farmer or a publican and put him in charge of running an airline. I don't think so.
Ok the justice minister is a solicitor so I reckon he would be more capable than most, but in the main these guys are just parachuted into a job for which they have no qualifications whatsoever.

994

Cicero: Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things

... Mercedes and Louis Vuitton?

No-one cared that roads, railway, industry, education and healthcare were neglected, just so long as they had luxuries and the promise of a magical paradise in the future.