BOI shares steadily rising... Worth a punt?

caoty

It's not trading above its book value.

daveirl wrote: »

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daveirl

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daheff

daveirl wrote: »

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what are these banks you talk of!!


Personally i see banking sector very oversold still. (look at Banking index -its up about 20% odd this year)


I'm heavy into banking (boi & ptsb -but open to more) & Japan right now.

ranger4

19c hit earlier this morning, IF Ben doesnt disappoint markets and with Return to Long term funding SP will soon be in the 20s.

RR2026

What this mean for stock '
- Bank of Ireland has reduced its outstanding stock of so-called 'own-use' bonds by 1.5 billion euros'

ranger4

RR2026 wrote: »

What this mean for stock '
- Bank of Ireland has reduced its outstanding stock of so-called 'own-use' bonds by 1.5 billion euros'

The unusual bonds have been a feature of the financial crisis and are used by banks to create collateral that is used to borrow from the European Central Bank (ECB). It means that, unlike traditional bonds, the debt the bonds represent is never held by outside investors.

Banks were able to use the 'own use' bonds as collateral at the ECB, as long as the debt was backed by a government guarantee.

Irish banks have been issuing such so-called own-use, or self-held, bonds since 2011. At the time all of the main banks were locked out of the bond markets and struggling to raise private sector debt.

The €1.5bn of bonds that Bank of Ireland has now repurchased were part of €5bn issue of the bonds done in the last week of March this year, just before the ending of the bank guarantee.

However, the €5bn of bonds has now been reduced to €2bn, including an earlier redemption.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/boi-cuts-its-own-use-bond-issue-by-15bn-29285752.html

caoty

I see the current rally of BOI since last December peak below 22c.

caoty wrote: »

10.3--》12.6--》16

Frere Jacques

Had a good close in the states at 10, hitting 10.27 in after hours although the volume is tiny. It would be nice to get into the 20's (bkir that is, we'll have to wait another bit for ire to hit 20), good for optics if nothing else.

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D

Billionaire investor Wilbur Ross calls stake in Bank of Ireland ‘best’ investment

marving

Hi,

What is the best and cheapest way for someone to buy BoI shares? I am living abroad in an EU country. I have been checking out DAVYS but the maintenance fees seem very high (approx 80€ per year) I have been offered a option to buy shares in London and New York but no one here seems to be able to buy directly from the Irish stock exchange.... As I am new to this can anybody pls explain the differences if I buy from London/NY instead of Dublin (the obvious one is currency I guess)?

Tx
MG

RR2026

I am with the Goodbody Stock Brokers - they are expensive but quite good . I am sure there are other cheaper options. Good luck with jumping on BOI shares Wagon !

ranger4

SP seems to be stabilizing, Bank of Ireland Plc Chief Executive Officer Richie Boucher said the nation’s largest lender by assets has enough capital to absorb bad loan losses.
Every financial gauge for the Dublin-based lender, including lending margins, costs, loan losses and deposits are “moving in the right direction,” Boucher said at an event in Dublin today. Momentum on all measures has continued “strongly” from last year into 2013, he said.
“Do we have the capital strength to deal with loan losses and support our lending activities ambitions?” Boucher said, adding he’s confident loan losses are declining. “We definitely do.”
Irish banks, which have required a 64 billion euro ($83 billion) bailout in the past four years, may avoid another state cash call as they face stress tests later this year, according to five of seven analysts and economists surveyed by Bloomberg News earlier this month
The lender has also generated 9 billion euros of private capital during this period, Boucher said. A July 2011 share sale resulted in five investors including U.S. billionaire Wilbur Ross’s WL Ross & Co. LLC and Toronoto-based Fairfax Holdings Ltd. taking an almost 35 percent stake in the lender.
Bank of Ireland shares have risen 89 percent since then to 18.9 euro cents as of 12:19 p.m. in Dublin trading, giving the company a market value of 5.6 billion euros.
Investment “did not come from the private sector because they felt sorry for us,” said Boucher, 54.. “It came from people who have closely studied Ireland and the Bank of Ireland. They believe in the recovery of Ireland and they believe in the bank’s ability to support that recovery.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-24/bank-of-ireland-definitely-has-capital-for-bad-loans-ceo-says.html

caoty

Maintenance fee wise, Goodbody seems to be the cheapest at 26€.

marving wrote: »

Hi,

What is the best and cheapest way for someone to buy BoI shares? I am living abroad in an EU country. I have been checking out DAVYS but the maintenance fees seem very high (approx 80€ per year) I have been offered a option to buy shares in London and New York but no one here seems to be able to buy directly from the Irish stock exchange.... As I am new to this can anybody pls explain the differences if I buy from London/NY instead of Dublin (the obvious one is currency I guess)?

Tx
MG

Sonnenblumen

Frere Jacques wrote: »

Had a good close in the states at 10, hitting 10.27 in after hours although the volume is tiny. It would be nice to get into the 20's (bkir that is, we'll have to wait another bit for ire to hit 20), good for optics if nothing else.

That space trip I've been promising myself might yet be within reach?:)

Sonnenblumen

caoty wrote: »

Maintenance fee wise, Goodbody seems to be the cheapest at 26€.

Cheaper than Computershare in Sandyford? Doubt it, although you might have to be an existing shareholder to get the low cost rate?

Scortho

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

That space trip I've been promising myself might yet be within reach?:)

How high will they need to get?
From Saturdays times:
Bank of Ireland’s market capitalisation in February 2007 was €18.2 billion. There were 979 million shares in issue, giving it a share price of €18.80. Today, there are roughly 30 billion Bank of Ireland shares in issue. So its shares would have to trade at 61 cent each for it to return to its 2007 glory.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/cantillon-giddy-heights-of-banks-pre-crash-shares-1.1405899

RR2026

Good News ?? see the link below >
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0529/453410-bank-of-ireland-debt/

ranger4

RR2026 wrote: »

Good News ?? see the link below >
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0529/453410-bank-of-ireland-debt/

Doubt news will have much of a positive impact for SP as Investors turn their attention to imminent global market correction.

Sonnenblumen

Even better news for BoI SP is the recent announcement by the UK's PO to enter the retail banking market with a range of new services including cheque books, current a/cs etc. UK PO set to be a major retail banking force in the market with 12,000+ branches, by far the largest of the current retail banking groups. Also SP is expected to be listed in the coming weeks on FTSE 250.

I wonder if Bill Cullen would consider selling his Space trip queue position?

ranger4

Investers taking profits as expected summer trading lull and correction approaches would imagine @16c range will offer strong support before continuation with uptrend.

caoty

2 billion shares traded today? Is that real?

ranger4 wrote: »

Investers taking profits as expected summer trading lull and correction approaches would imagine @16c range will offer strong support before continuation with uptrend.

Deadly Delta

Scortho wrote: »

How high will they need to get?
From Saturdays times:
Bank of Ireland’s market capitalisation in February 2007 was €18.2 billion. There were 979 million shares in issue, giving it a share price of €18.80. Today, there are roughly 30 billion Bank of Ireland shares in issue. So its shares would have to trade at 61 cent each for it to return to its 2007 glory.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/cantillon-giddy-heights-of-banks-pre-crash-shares-1.1405899

Can someone tell me why there are so many shares in issue now compared to to 2007, and how do they manage this dilution in the future. Am I right in saying that realistically these shares will never even reach €1 again?

How do they take shares out of circulation and how is share price affected?

Apologies if this is obvious but i'm new to share trading! Cheers

Dubh Geannain

Deadly Delta wrote: »

Can someone tell me why there are so many shares in issue now compared to to 2007, and how do they manage this dilution in the future. Am I right in saying that realistically these shares will never even reach €1 again?

How do they take shares out of circulation and how is share price affected?

Apologies if this is obvious but i'm new to share trading! Cheers

Petroceltic went up 2500% yesterday after a 1 for 25 share reverse split.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=PCI.L+Interactive#symbol=PCI.L;range=5d

Deadly Delta

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Petroceltic went up 2500% yesterday after a 1 for 25 share reverse split.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=PCI.L+Interactive#symbol=PCI.L;range=5d

Ok, but that doesn't really answer my question, how does the split work? If I had 1000 euros worth of petroceltic shares last week, how much do I have now?

Dubh Geannain

Deadly Delta wrote: »

Ok, but that doesn't really answer my question, how does the split work? If I had 1000 euros worth of petroceltic shares last week, how much do I have now?

€1,000 worth.

But instead of having say 50 shares worth €1,000 you would have 2 shares worth €1,000 i.e. every 25 shares you had were replaced with 1 consolidated share (50/25 = 2 shares)

The market capitalisation of the company shouldn't have changed.

Using your BOI example. If 30 billion shares are in circulation and a price of 16c per share, then they have a market cap of €4.8 billion. If they done a reverse share split of 25/1 they'd have 1.2 billion shares in circulation. To have the same market cap (€4.8 billion) that'd mean a new market price of €4.00 per share (from 16*25 OR 4.8/1.2)

banbatoyota

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/michael-noonan-signals-stress-tests-for-irish-banks-next-year-1.1428007

Stress tests for Irish banks next year. They'll make for an interesting catalyst

lucky john

ranger4 wrote: »

Investers taking profits as expected summer trading lull and correction approaches would imagine @16c range will offer strong support before continuation with uptrend.

@14c today. Any takers?

Sonnenblumen

It's the silly season, best to stay away.

spurious

Losing customers hand over fist thanks to their new charges.

Sonnenblumen

spurious wrote: »

Losing customers hand over fist thanks to their new charges.

I'm sure there's an element of customer churn, but what are the alternatives? None really? PTSB? AIB? EBS? The walking wounded and dysfunctional in many respects some of whom could expire at any moment?

The days of free banking are gone, if it doesn't make money drop it, if they (customers) don't want to pay service charges, lose them.

The CEO is on record that BoI is a commercial entity and he appears to have a greater awareness of shareholders than predecessors.

littlemac1980

lucky john wrote: »

@14c today. Any takers?

Well anyone that bit would have gained almost 40% on their investment in little over a month at todays closing price of .191

Vologda69

littlemac1980 wrote: »

Well anyone that bit would have gained almost 40% on their investment in little over a month at todays closing price of .191

I bought 40,000 at 8.5 cent. Glad I held onto them

littlemac1980

Vologda69 wrote: »

I bought 40,000 at 8.5 cent. Glad I held onto them

That was a great deal compared to mine.

I got 10k at twice that price. I wont be selling them anytime soon though - I've a real good feeling about them and they are a relatively cheap bet all in all and good insurance against the risk of spending the rest of my life saying "I should have bought them bloody shares, I remember when they were only a few cents" - I don't want to be that guy, even if it means I never make a penny on them.

daithijjj

What are peoples thoughts on these shares right now?.

I had some a couple of years ago, sold up when they trebled but it was volatile then and i knew it was a high risk punt.

Be interested to hear peoples outlook on them.

gordongekko

There are rumours of a rights issue which who knows might effect the price but to counter that there has been some director purchases which would be a positive sign.

Axel Lamp

littlemac1980 wrote: »

Well anyone that bit would have gained almost 40% on their investment in little over a month at todays closing price of .191

Bought 20,000 @.148.

Looking it at as long, long term investment really.

Seamus1964

My instincts tell me that BOI shares may hit around 30c p/s by end of the year if everythings goes well.
Have you ever had a gut instinct that you simply could not ignore
Hopes die last..

lucky john

Management will be doing everything possible to push the price up towards 30c before next march. They will need it close to there so as to price a rights issue as high as possible.

Scortho

Seamus1964 wrote: »

My instincts tell me that BOI shares may hit around 30c p/s by end of the year if everythings goes well.
Have you ever had a gut instinct that you simply could not ignore
Hopes die last..

Isn't the book value around the 25 mark or something?

gordongekko

lucky john wrote: »

Management will be doing everything possible to push the price up towards 30c before next march. They will need it close to there so as to price a rights issue as high as possible.

and how will they do that?

lucky john

gordongekko wrote: »

and how will they do that?

As you said you're self, director purchasing of shares, positive spin, bullish statments, not dealing with mortgage arrears, government hypy (they want the 1.5 billion back), serious cost cutting ( did you notice all thoes new lodgement machines and few staff in the branches lately).

Frere Jacques

As far as I recall, fair value was about 27c, assuming no more major problems. They do have to pay back the Gov which will probably result in a rights issue before the end of the year that could result in a sharp 10-15% drop. Then again we are up 15% in the last two days so for those holding long term that drop won't be a big deal as the plus side of it is that it removes the uncertainly about paying the moneys.
I'm in at 10c about 18 months ago and see it is a play on the global recovery and am happy to sit tight for another bit but if it gets anywhere near 25c then I'll step back to the side lines and wait for the pullback to get back in.
For anyone just jumping in remember that with all the dilution a share price of about 90c would equal the market cap at the height of the boom so don't be expecting meteoric rises back north of 15 euros.
Best of luck. There is still plenty of room to run but if they are forced to address mortgage write downs and adjust the balance sheet accordingly then we can go back to the 10c very quickly too or even worse if they have to raise more capital for bad debt provisions.
My advice is no more than 10% of a portfolio or if on a punt then no more than a few grand that you can afford to lose if it all goes pear shaped.

euroboom13

10% holding would take the fun out of it

Eggs in one basket .....and hope our american friends mind the basket!

Confidence and incouraging management can build a strong balance sheet/shareprice and banking gaint!

Banking is all about confidence/share price is all about confidece.Fundamentals can improve on confidence alone,dont get too caught up on them.

Best irish buy since smurf kappa was 1.01euro(now e15)

good luck!

littlemac1980

2 year highs for 3 days in a row now - and continuing to rise. :-)

Muilleann

Have been keeping on these.

However,my broker (whose opinion I value) is not enthusiastic for the moment anyway.

Scortho

Muilleann wrote: »

Have been keeping on these.

However,my broker (whose opinion I value) is not enthusiastic for the moment anyway.

When it comes to shares the only advice I'd take is my own. Too many people have gotten it wrong and it's impossible to know what there connection is to certain shares. I know one man who bought apple shares at $650 on the advise of his broker. His pension has taken a serious blow.

These shares were worth 8c at one stage this year.
They've now rose 156% since then.
What was he saying when they were 8 c.
Why is he saying they're not worth it now?


For the record I've just liquidated my holding this morning.
A very happy scortho.

Seamus1964

"... These shares were worth 8c at one stage this year...."

Are we talking about apple or boi shares?
None of them was down to 8c this year

Other than that - good speech!
I'm totally agree : the best opinion is my own opinion

BrokenArrows

Seamus1964 wrote: »

"... These shares were worth 8c at one stage this year...."

Are we talking about apple or boi shares?
None of them was down to 8c this year

Other than that - good speech!
I'm totally agree : the best opinion is my own opinion

End of august last year they were around 8c!!

I bought 10k at 11c but sold them at 10c to reinvest in something else. Never got around to rebuying!!

Scortho

Seamus1964 wrote: »

"... These shares were worth 8c at one stage this year...."

Are we talking about apple or boi shares?
None of them was down to 8c this year

Other than that - good speech!
I'm totally agree : the best opinion is my own opinion

Seamus1964 wrote: »

"... These shares were worth 8c at one stage this year...."

Are we talking about apple or boi shares?
None of them was down to 8c this year

Other than that - good speech!
I'm totally agree : the best opinion is my own opinion

Well I feckin wish apple were down at 8c at one stage in the last 10 years. That'd be one of the buys of the century. Even if you bought when they were 7 dollars back in 2001 it would have been the buy of the century.

Anyway boi finished trading at 8.3 cents on the 28 of August last year.

dod78

Cashed out with a 32% profit today. Hopefully will fall back a bit and i'll go back in then.