Ganley to stand as candidate in the North West constituency for European Elections

P. Breathnach

oscarBravo wrote: »

This from the same people who told us to vote against Lisbon in order to keep "our" commissioner...?

Our unelected commissioner.

ionix5891

i always chucked at the "our" part

does Ganley even know how the EU works or all hes good at is buying power? (sick)

BlitzKrieg

update on candidates appearing for that Q+A in coolock.

Confirmed: Caroline Simmons (Libertas) and Green candidate De Burcha


no one else has confirmed yet.

So if you can make it great, if not put up your questions here for those of us who do make it to ask if we can (though I dont think they'll let me ask Caroline Simmons 10 questions in a row, I could ask her to do a video interview for youtube and here but thats a big *maybe*

Euro_Kraut

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

*ouch*

so how many candidates do they have in how many countries?

Cause they need 25 candidates in 7 countries to be anyway close to their promise of a pan european movement.

EDIT: It seems the BZO candidate is the *possible* libertas candidate aswell, as they have stated that depending on how libertas do in the election they might go into an alliance with them.

Yeah the BZO said they may be interested in an alliance after the election. Probably suits Libertas for now not to be officially involved with Jorg Haiders party. Still interesting to see the kind of company they keep.

r14

It's in the Times that Libertas paid the former Polish President to address their conference in Rome. Ganley declined to say how much they paid but he Times say it was 50k.

“Gentlemen do not talk about money to other gentlemen,” Mr Ganley told the daily newspaper Dziennik yesterday. “The word ‘honorarium’ includes the word ‘honour’. Let’s drop the subject.”

Glad to see his committment to transparency and accountability is just as strong for his own party as it is for the European Parliament.

WooPeeA

Yes r14. Walesa indeed visited their convention and gave a speech but he also said that he like few Libertas' ideas but his points of view on EU are a little different than the ones claimed by libertas so he won't give them any personal support.

snubbleste

FF look likely to run Donegal TD Pat the cope Gallagher alongside Paschal Mooney
This means Declan Ganley, is the only candidate in North West from Galway, the most populous county in the constituency.

Happy Monday

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I don't know that he can turn the lisbon 'no' vote into a ganley 'yes' vote.

I was talking to one SF hopeful in the coming locals in Galway City who had absolutely no love for Ganley.

Never mind Dublin I think he'd be better off running in England where his natural eurosceptic tory base lives.

Still I'm not going to complain if it turns out he's made a fatal mistake by running in the west of Ireland.

I'm just looking forward to giving him my last preference.

Declan Ganley is from the West of Ireland - Glenamaddy in Co. Galway.

How many of the leadership of SF come from the West - nil.
Interesting for a so-called 32 county party.

It was his contribution last year to the debate on Lisbon that made a lot of educated, middle class voters sit up and take notice of how this treaty would damage Ireland and encouraged them to vote against - SF doesn't carry any influence outside of Tallaght and Cabra.

PHB

That's just utter media spin. Campaigns are won on the ground mostly. Ganley and Libertas weren't mentioned as huge factors for why people voted. The majority of no voting was a result of SF, Coir, Sinnott etc.
Libertas did well for a specific section of the middle class who read the papers, because the papers had to represent somebody from the no side, and they'd be dammed if it was going to be SF.

Tikkal

The guy is dangerous. Question where he receives his funding from and you will Nay get an answer.....very very very dubious character

Check this out, unfortunately it is about one hour into the debate, a family member questions him on the funding issue....

http://www.dcbn.eu/live/od.html

is_that_so

Happy Monday wrote: »

It was his contribution last year to the debate on Lisbon that made a lot of educated, middle class voters sit up and take notice of how this treaty would damage Ireland and encouraged them to vote against - SF doesn't carry any influence outside of Tallaght and Cabra.

So they did but so far at most 2% of people are embracing his message less than 4 weeks out. He appears to have mistaken that vote as a vote for Libertas.

snubbleste

Tikkal wrote: »

The guy is dangerous. Question where he receives his funding from and you will Nay get an answer.....very very very dubious character
Check this out, unfortunately it is about one hour into the debate, a family member questions him on the funding issue....http://www.dcbn.eu/live/od.html

Are you saying Bertie Ahern is dangerous, our own dear Bertie when minister for finance did not have a bank account?

BlitzKrieg

Are you saying Bertie Ahern is dangerous, our own dear Bertie when minister for finance did not have a bank account?

So are you saying just because stupid people voted in one <snip> ???

Happy Monday

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

So are you saying just because stupid people voted in one <snip>

Hold on - Bertie Ahern, Ray Burke, Liam Lawlor, Michael Lowry, Charles Haughey and many more below them sought political power to enrich themselves and their buddies in business.

It's why they weren't trusted on Lisbon and it's why so many people out there from pensioners to public servants to small business owners won't let them take what little they have when they have taken so much for so long!

BlitzKrieg

Happy Monday wrote: »

Hold on - Bertie Ahern, Ray Burke, Liam Lawlor, Michael Lowry, Charles Haughey and many more below them sought political power to enrich themselves and their buddies in business.

Again I am not contesting that point, I didnt vote for any of the above and anyone who votes for someone after they have been caught abusing their power does indeed raise important questions about political apathy.

It's why they weren't trusted on Lisbon

Again yes, the government are the main people I would lay the blame for the lisbon result, you will never find me saying anything else, the government f*cked up and that coupled with a worsening reputation people voted due to issues that had nothing to do with Lisbon.

But do you not consider that political figures who have no history of abusing their power or of corruption (bit hard if you havnt been in office granted) also came out on the yes side of Lisbon, and that equally corrupt figures came out on the no side of Lisbon (again I name Kathy sinnott who abused her position as mep)

In the end in all referendums it does come down to the people making the choice themselves and to educate themselves. It is the point of the referendum, its not the governments choice, its yours.

I am very much in agreement with you about Fianna Fail in many ways, but just because someone comes out and says *no to fianna fail* does not make them a good candidate, nor does it make them an honest candidate.

nesf

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

So are you saying just because <snip>

Please don't throw around accusations of corruption.

BlitzKrieg

ok sorry about that.

nesf

Details from the Libertas launch of their campaign: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0511/1224246255842.html?via=rel


Also from a different article:

Launching the Libertas European campaign yesterday in Dublin, Declan Ganley, who is contesting the North West constituency, criticised Independent MEP, Marian Harkin.

“A vote for Marian Harkin is a vote for FFs group in the European Parliament,” he claimed.

The Libertas candidate in Dublin, solicitor Caroline Simons described Proinsias De Rossa MEP “a man who has been 15 years in the European Parliament and who next year will be 70 years of age”.

Unsurprisingly beginning the attack on the sitting Independent MEP in Ganley's case and a very odd comment from Simons in that so blunt an attack on his age left no room for manoeuvre. Normally the Libertas message is better crafted and slicker than that.

BlitzKrieg

Shall I add Ageism to the list of questions for her then?

oscarBravo

From the Times article;

"There's a big difference between people who have age and experience on their side and people who have become cynical and tired of the political process - so cynical in De Rossa's case he actually voted not to respect the outcome of the Irish referendum. That is a deep cynicism and maybe in his case he needs to do something else.

It's shockingly two-faced for him to come out with this tired old canard, and use it to accuse someone else of cynicism. I think it's clear that with Libertas we'd get not only business as usual, but electioneering and politicking as usual.

Scofflaw

oscarBravo wrote: »

From the Times article; It's shockingly two-faced for him to come out with this tired old canard, and use it to accuse someone else of cynicism. I think it's clear that with Libertas we'd get not only business as usual, but electioneering and politicking as usual.

That is appalling - pure negative campaigning. The vote was a cheap stunt in the first place, but to couple it with an attack on the guy's age and experience and one of Libertas' usual "looking in the mirror" smears...new and revolting low.

appalled,
Scofflaw

bokspring71

Scofflaw wrote: »

That is appalling - pure negative campaigning. The vote was a cheap stunt in the first place, but to couple it with an attack on the guy's age and experience and one of Libertas' usual "looking in the mirror" smears...new and revolting low.

appalled,
Scofflaw

Politics is all about getting elected. Negative campaigning has, unfortunately, been a feature of many political campaigns, including the "yes" and "no" sides to the previous Lisbon referendum. Cheap stunts are used by those wanting to get elected because, often, they work and appeal to certain sections of the electorate, and help the cause to get elected. Scofflaw is appalled, although Ganley is not trying to appeal to guys like Scofflaw as Scofflaw is never going to vote for him or Libertas, I am guessing. Perhpas Libertas has calculated it will appeal to others who might be persuaded to vote for them by this type of campaigning. Just as all the other parties do, and will, also.

I don't like it, but politics is a dirty business and "truth", as we might view it, is often a casualty. C'est la vie.

Scofflaw

bokspring71 wrote: »

Politics is all about getting elected. Negative campaigning has, unfortunately, been a feature of many political campaigns, including the "yes" and "no" sides to the previous Lisbon referendum. Cheap stunts are used by those wanting to get elected because, often, they work and appeal to certain sections of the electorate, and help the cause to get elected. Scofflaw is appalled, although Ganley is not trying to appeal to guys like Scofflaw as Scofflaw is never going to vote for him or Libertas, I am guessing. Perhpas Libertas has calculated it will appeal to others who might be persuaded to vote for them by this type of campaigning. Just as all the other parties do, and will, also.

I don't like it, but politics is a dirty business and "truth", as we might view it, is often a casualty. C'est la vie.

Oh sure - because "politics is a dirty business" we shouldn't bother aiming for any standards in public life at all, should we? Perhaps we should apply that logic to all areas impacted by politics - which is, after all, absolutely everything. Who needs truth when you've got truthiness?

C'est la vie is really not an adequate response to deliberate dishonesty. Negative campaigning damages the whole political process - no matter who is elected.

rhetorically,
Scofflaw

Euro_Kraut

bokspring71 wrote: »

Politics is all about getting elected.

No. You are confusing politics with elections.

Politics is about influencing, changing opinions and setting the agenda. Martin Luther King never ran for public office and yet changed American thinking on racial issues and gave birth to the Civil Rights worldwide. David Norris is an non-party senator and yet has made massive impact for the rights for Irish homosexual community.

Elections and electioneering is all about being elected. But success in politics cannot be defined by the number of elections someone wins, rather than by their ability to get their thinking incorporated into public policy.

oscarBravo

bokspring71 wrote: »

Politics is all about getting elected.

Fine - but don't try to sell yourself as something new and improved, if all you're peddling is the worst of the crap we've already seen.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Happy Monday wrote: »

Declan Ganley is from the West of Ireland - Glenamaddy in Co. Galway.

How many of the leadership of SF come from the West - nil.
Interesting for a so-called 32 county party.

It was his contribution last year to the debate on Lisbon that made a lot of educated, middle class voters sit up and take notice of how this treaty would damage Ireland and encouraged them to vote against - SF doesn't carry any influence outside of Tallaght and Cabra.

Correction:

Declan Ganley is from England, he lives in the West of Ireland.

Not that that matters in the slightest bit to me, just correcting your post.

It was his contribution last year to the debate on Lisbon that muddied the waters and threw lies and conjecture into the debate. Stirred up fear on non-issues like conscription and abortion, which were never going to happen. Misrepresented the EU institutions with phrases like 'our commissioner'. Threw just enough sh*t that some stuck.

He probably is responsible for about 5% max of the 'no' vote, and I doubt he'll even turn that much into a 'yes' to Libertas vote.

I look forward to him being consigned to the dustbin of history, with other failed self appointed 'spokesmen' like Justin Barrett.

Still, I'm sure his efforts will not go unrewarded by his chums in NATO, so there's always that.

is_that_so

bokspring71 wrote: »

Politics is all about getting elected. Negative campaigning has, unfortunately, been a feature of many political campaigns, including the "yes" and "no" sides to the previous Lisbon referendum. Cheap stunts are used by those wanting to get elected because, often, they work and appeal to certain sections of the electorate, and help the cause to get elected. Scofflaw is appalled, although Ganley is not trying to appeal to guys like Scofflaw as Scofflaw is never going to vote for him or Libertas, I am guessing. Perhpas Libertas has calculated it will appeal to others who might be persuaded to vote for them by this type of campaigning. Just as all the other parties do, and will, also.

I don't like it, but politics is a dirty business and "truth", as we might view it, is often a casualty. C'est la vie.

If that is the case where are these votes going to come from? Beyond "we're doing better in our own polls" Libertas are doing little but show up on the dirty tricks radar. Their candidate in Dublin seems particularly nasty and from what I've of her debating offers very little. I have not heard the candidate for East even speak and Ganley seems to be more interested in foreign tours. 5% would be very good at this point and that seems unlikely. On that basis none will get elected.

bokspring71

Scofflaw wrote: »

Oh sure - because "politics is a dirty business" we shouldn't bother aiming for any standards in public life at all, should we? Perhaps we should apply that logic to all areas impacted by politics - which is, after all, absolutely everything. Who needs truth when you've got truthiness?

C'est la vie is really not an adequate response to deliberate dishonesty. Negative campaigning damages the whole political process - no matter who is elected.

rhetorically,
Scofflaw

Us aiming for higher standards is of course desirable. In the meantime I don’t see politics suddenly stopping being a dirty business. Negative campaigning is as old as the world, and I don’t see how you or us can change it. Oh that we could!

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

No. You are confusing politics with elections.

Politics is about influencing, changing opinions and setting the agenda. Martin Luther King never ran for public office and yet changed American thinking on racial issues and gave birth to the Civil Rights worldwide. David Norris is an non-party senator and yet has made massive impact for the rights for Irish homosexual community.

Elections and electioneering is all about being elected. But success in politics cannot be defined by the number of elections someone wins, rather than by their ability to get their thinking incorporated into public policy.

Martin Luther King was not a politician, not was David Norris when he was campaigning.

Most of the politicians I know have only one goal, and that’s to get elected and control the levers of power, but if you judge that politics is about influence in preference to power, then I don’t agree.

Success in politics is often defined by how many elections a politician wins. Bertie Ahern is often judged to be a good politician because he won three elections for Fianna Fail.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Fine - but don't try to sell yourself as something new and improved, if all you're peddling is the worst of the crap we've already seen.

I’m not trying to sell anything!

is_that_so wrote: »

If that is the case where are these votes going to come from? Beyond "we're doing better in our own polls" Libertas are doing little but show up on the dirty tricks radar. Their candidate in Dublin seems particularly nasty and from what I've of her debating offers very little. I have not heard the candidate for East even speak and Ganley seems to be more interested in foreign tours. 5% would be very good at this point and that seems unlikely. On that basis none will get elected.

I’m not a spokesman for Libertas or for any political party. I think many politicians might be quite nasty, but it still doesn’t stop them being elected. Where the votes will come from will the the same place the votes come from to elect Beverly Flynn and Michael O’leary – from voters who are persuaded to vote for them and suspend their faculties of judgement.

Negative campaigning works, and while none of us might like it, it isn’t going away any day soon.

Scofflaw

bokspring71 wrote:

Us aiming for higher standards is of course desirable. In the meantime I don’t see politics suddenly stopping being a dirty business. Negative campaigning is as old as the world, and I don’t see how you or us can change it. Oh that we could!

You're a voter. That makes you the person with the power to change it. Don't vote for people who do negative campaigning as a primary tactic. Very simple.

Of course, since you're here defending it, you're more likely to be part of the problem than the solution.

regards,
Scofflaw

bokspring71

Scofflaw wrote: »

You're a voter. That makes you the person with the power to change it. Don't vote for people who do negative campaigning as a primary tactic. Very simple.

Of course, since you're here defending it, you're more likely to be part of the problem than the solution.

regards,
Scofflaw

To observe is not to defend.

I vote for people on their policies and don't need to be told who or how to vote!