Ganley to stand as candidate in the North West constituency for European Elections

Lockstep

From what I can see, Ganley stands a good chance of being elected.

FF's decision not to run a Galwegian candidate could hurt, given that they are such a large amount of voters, even a filthy socialist like me would vote FF to keep Ganley out. I'm hoping Sinn Féin will build on last time to get their candidate elected along with Harkin and Higgins.

Ganley's odds are 9/4 at the moment and I'm extremely unimpressed by him. He goes on and on about transparency but his funding is dodgy as hell (he claimed on Pat Kenny to have only spent 70k, bollocks IMHO, anyone from Galway will see how many billboards he has up)

He's also had guys postering in NUIG with all the usual Libertas ****e.

djpbarry

is_that_so wrote: »

Their candidate in Dublin seems particularly nasty and from what I've of her debating offers very little.

Indeed; she has all the media savvy of an inebriated chimp. I'm actually quite insulted that Libertas feel she is deserving of my vote.

Happy Monday

kickoutthejams wrote: »

FF's decision not to run a Galwegian candidate could hurt, given that they are such a large amount of voters, even a filthy socialist like me would vote FF to keep Ganley out. I'm hoping Sinn Féin will build on last time to get their candidate elected along with Harkin and Higgins.

Perhaps you would vote for Ganley if he could justify the killing of innocents the way your friends in Sinn Fein have.

Happy Monday

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Correction:

Declan Ganley is from England, he lives in the West of Ireland. Not that that matters in the slightest bit to me, just correcting your post.

No - he was born in England to Irish parents.
They moved back to Glenamaddy when he was around 10/12.
And he is based in the Tuam area as we speak.
Irish blood if not Irish born - like David O'Leary, Paul McGrath and Phil Lynott.

I'm sure you don't consider any of those to be from England.

Lockstep

Happy Monday wrote: »

Perhaps you would vote for Ganley if he could justify the killing of innocents the way your friends in Sinn Fein have.

Exactly, I'm not hoping SF will get in so they will block Ganley (who represents a lot of what is anathema to me), I'm doing it because they kill people (and they are my friends)
I was hoping to keep that a secret though.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Happy Monday wrote: »

No - he was born in England to Irish parents.
They moved back to Glenamaddy when he was around 10/12.
And he is based in the Tuam area as we speak.
Irish blood if not Irish born - like David O'Leary, Paul McGrath and Phil Lynott.

I'm sure you don't consider any of those to be from England.

Well yeah Phil Lynott is from England, he grew up there. Dave O'Leary and Paul McGrath moved to Ireland when they were babies, so I'd say yeah they're from Ireland.

Anyway as I say, it doesn't matter to me, but it seems to matter to you. I don't care if Ganley is English, I don't consider that a reason to not vote for him.

I consider the fact that he has no policies and most of his claims of what he will do if elected have nothing to do with being an MEP reason enough not to vote for him. Also I didn't like how he threw around half truths and cast aspersions during the first Lisbon debate. Also it doesn't help that he's Anti-EU, has assembled a motley collection of right wing mini parties across Europe, and on more than one occasion has been accused of paying them to rebrand as Libertas. It worries me that he is so heavily involved in the US defence industry, relies on making his money from people who want to see a weak Europe relying on NATO for international peacekeeping operations, and a strong US sphere of influence extending unbroken to eastern Europe.

But like you say... he lives in Tuam... :rolleyes:

Happy Monday

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I consider the fact that he has no policies and most of his claims of what he will do if elected have nothing to do with being an MEP reason enough not to vote for him. Also I didn't like how he threw around half truths and cast aspersions during the first Lisbon debate. Also it doesn't help that he's Anti-EU, has assembled a motley collection of right wing mini parties across Europe, and on more than one occasion has been accused of paying them to rebrand as Libertas. It worries me that he is so heavily involved in the US defence industry, relies on making his money from people who want to see a weak Europe relying on NATO for international peacekeeping operations, and a strong US sphere of influence extending unbroken to eastern Europe.

Thankfully we now agree that Declan (and the name helps) is an Irishman who has grown up in the West.

Yes - it matters to me - it has mattered to me since one of the anti-Ganley brigade on this site suggested it was otherwise - I also appreciate that you are now backtracking on your original statement on his origins.

Ganley wants to see a Europe who parliament and leadership is accountable to all of its member states and to its electorate. This means that each of the commissioners should be elected in each country and it means that each of the member states should have the right of veto on key areas which affect them. Your friends in FF, FG and Labour would have it otherwise. This is the essence of what Libertas stands for - accountability and transparency in decision making in Europe.

In reference to the US - when innocent people were being murdered in Kosovo the US and UK indepenently intervened to save tens of thousands of lives while key European states sat on their hands. They wouldn't have moved to defend those people under any circumstances and yet you rabble on about a European desire for peacekeeping operations.

This action also explains why the US is supported so strongly in Eastern Europe - at each stage of their struggle for freedom the US has supported them while European powers have ignored and shunned them.

My final point - when France voted no on Lisbon the treaty was redrawn.
When Ireland voted no Sarkozy indicated that the rest could proceed and Ireland stay behind. The leopard of Europe revealed its true colours.

Buy hey let's have a go at this Ganley guy..........and ignore the real danger of a dictatorial European super state controlled by Paris and Berlin.

BlitzKrieg

Ganley wants to see a Europe who parliament and leadership is accountable to all of its member states and to its electorate. This means that each of the commissioners should be elected in each country

do you have access to info that we dont? Ganley has never said that and even if he did he's an even bigger idiot then I thought. Having commissioners being elected from each member state is like having the minister of education only being elected from tipperary or the minister of finance can only come from donegal. Its counter productive, open to constant abuse and conflict and in the end completely pointless.

and it means that each of the member states should have the right of veto on key areas which affect them.

WE DO! its called the council of europe.

This is the essence of what Libertas stands for - accountability and transparency in decision making in Europe.

That totally depends on which country you are in which libertas candidate you are talking to and of course (my personal favourite) if you are capable of ignoring that Declan Ganley endorsed Kathy Sinnot in the south constituency, who is an irish mep who got caught abusing her powers as a mep claiming expenses that she had no right to. She could in fact be the only irish mep to be caught but I cant confirm that. her accountability should be that she does not get re elected that the people of south ireland should tell her to p*ss off. But not for good old Declan he says vote for her if you want to vote for libertas.

yes, transparency and accountability, isnt it wonderful.

Lockstep

Happy Monday wrote: »

This is the essence of what Libertas stands for - accountability and transparency in decision making in Europe.

A man who gets all shifty the minute anyone mentions funding?

Happy Monday wrote: »

Buy hey let's have a go at this Ganley guy..........and ignore the real danger of a dictatorial European super state controlled by Paris and Berlin.

He'll have to come up with some concrete policies first.

is_that_so

Happy Monday wrote: »

Thankfully we now agree that Declan (and the name helps) is an Irishman who has grown up in the West.

Yes - it matters to me - it has mattered to me since one of the anti-Ganley brigade on this site suggested it was otherwise - I also appreciate that you are now backtracking on your original statement on his origins.

Ganley wants to see a Europe who parliament and leadership is accountable to all of its member states and to its electorate. This means that each of the commissioners should be elected in each country and it means that each of the member states should have the right of veto on key areas which affect them. Your friends in FF, FG and Labour would have it otherwise. This is the essence of what Libertas stands for - accountability and transparency in decision making in Europe.

In reference to the US - when innocent people were being murdered in Kosovo the US and UK indepenently intervened to save tens of thousands of lives while key European states sat on their hands. They wouldn't have moved to defend those people under any circumstances and yet you rabble on about a European desire for peacekeeping operations.

This action also explains why the US is supported so strongly in Eastern Europe - at each stage of their struggle for freedom the US has supported them while European powers have ignored and shunned them.

My final point - when France voted no on Lisbon the treaty was redrawn.
When Ireland voted no Sarkozy indicated that the rest could proceed and Ireland stay behind. The leopard of Europe revealed its true colours.

Buy hey let's have a go at this Ganley guy..........and ignore the real danger of a dictatorial European super state controlled by Paris and Berlin.

I think you'll find that Mr Ganley wants a Europe that includes him at the heart of it. That said there's a lot more clarity in your comments than much of what Libertas have come up with to date.
Ganley's problem will not be with the anti-Ganley brigade here, who have quite obviously elected to give him vote 13, but it will be in convincing enough people to vote for him and objectively he and his potential colleagues have serious credibility issues.

Happy Monday

Example - The Euro strengthens in value against the GBP.
Problem for Irish exporters and the Irish retail trade.
Not a problem for France or Germany.
No one comes forward from the ECB or EU to allay the concerns of Ireland.
Ireland is viewed as a regional backwater feeding off the scraps of the big countries.

This is what concerns me - does it not concern anyone else here?

BlitzKrieg

Happy Monday wrote: »

Example - The Euro strengthens in value against the GBP.
Problem for Irish exporters and the Irish retail trade.
Not a problem for France or Germany.
No one comes forward from the ECB or EU to allay the concerns of Ireland.

This is what concerns me - this is what concerns Libertas.

You believe libertas will magically stop england running itself into the ground?

the euro did not strengthen

the sterling bombed, from 1.5 (2005) to 1.09 (now roughly)


what can the EU do, the Uk did not join the euro.

tobias_wolf

i really dont want to vote fianna fail but libertas and sinn fein running candidates where i live it looks like i'll have too,libertas(liars) and sinn fein(as low as you can go) who votes for these people.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Happy Monday wrote: »

Thankfully we now agree that Declan (and the name helps) is an Irishman who has grown up in the West.

I also appreciate that you are now backtracking on your original statement on his origins.

It must be amazing to live in a world where you can make up your own words when reading something! If you'd read my post you would see that I haven't backtracked on anything!

Anyway all you're probably seeing as you cast your eyes over these words are something like 'Happy Monday, you're so handsome, and so right, I wish more people were like you and Declan Ganley', so it doesn't really matter what I write here!

It seams one area where we actually have reached agreement is our interpretation of what Declan Ganleys Libertas actually stand for, which is the weakening and destruction of the EU in favour of US interests.

You think that's a good thing, I think it's a bad thing, but at least you're being honest about it. Now if only Declan Ganley were half as honest...

Happy Monday

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

You believe libertas will magically stop england running itself into the ground?

the euro did not strengthen

the sterling bombed, from 1.5 (2005) to 1.09 (now roughly)


what can the EU do, the Uk did not join the euro.

What Ireland did in the 1980s and 1990s in response to these kinds of movements was to devalue our currency.

The point is that we had the ability at that time to decide our own destiny.

My concern is that in 20 years time decisions over health care, defence and so on could be in the hands of these same Europeans.

Hitman Actual

Happy Monday wrote: »

...it means that each of the member states should have the right of veto on key areas which affect them.

Name some of these key areas where we don't have a veto/opt-outs/protocols? Defense? Fiscal matters (i.e. corporation tax)? JHA? Abortion?

Happy Monday wrote: »

In reference to the US - when innocent people were being murdered in Kosovo the US and UK indepenently intervened to save tens of thousands of lives while key European states sat on their hands. They wouldn't have moved to defend those people under any circumstances and yet you rabble on about a European desire for peacekeeping operations.

I'm pretty sure it was NATO that intervened in Kosovo, followed up by UN peace-keeping missions. To say it was the US and the UK 'independently' is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. You also must remember that there wasn't much of a framework in the EU for any sort of intervention at the time. On the other hand, if Lisbon is ratified, there will be a much improved framework. Also, don't forget that Sarkozy was one of the main intermediaries in the Georgia-Russia crisis last year when France were holders of the EU presidency. Where was the US, and indeed the UK, then?

BlitzKrieg

What Ireland did in the 1980s and 1990s in response to these kinds of movements was to devalue our currency.

The point is that we had the ability at that time to decide our own destiny.

My concern is that in 20 years time decisions over health care, defence and so on could be in the hands of these same Europeans.

yes and in the 1980's/1990's the amount of trade between the uk and ireland was in excess of 80% of our total export, that has changed quite alot since then we dont rely on the UK for all our trade.

devalueing our currency just because one of our trade partners is in a rough spot is idiotic when any benefit you get from it is lost by the decrease in value of all our other trade.

Happy Monday

Hitman Actual wrote: »

Name some of these key areas where we don't have a veto/opt-outs/protocols? Defense? Fiscal matters (i.e. corporation tax)? JHA? Abortion?

Yes - we still have vetos as Lisbon was not ratified.
I take it you will oppose any referendum that interferes with our right to those vetos.

BlitzKrieg

Yes - we still have vetos as Lisbon was not ratified.

name the vetoes lisbon would have taken away from us?

PHB

I'd actually listen to Ganley if he was able to answer me this one simple question:

Do you want an intergovernmental EU where countries are the major players [as we have currently]

Do you want a democracy EU where everything goes to a vote from your direct representatives?

Because it seems to me, he picks and chooses which one he wants when it suits him.

--

Also Kosovo and the failure of the EU to deal with it spurred on the recent push towards EU growth in peacekeeping operations. So its pretty stupid to criticise the European states handling of the Kosovo crisis and at the same time not support the increased role of the EU in this area.

Happy Monday

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

yes and in the 1980's/1990's the amount of trade between the uk and ireland was in excess of 80% of our total export, that has changed quite alot since then we dont rely on the UK for all our trade.

devalueing our currency just because one of our trade partners is in a rough spot is idiotic when any benefit you get from it is lost by the decrease in value of all our other trade.

The point is that the EU is taking no measures to keep the Euro aligned to GBP. Even use of monetary tools of buying/selling currency on the international markets to keep the values within range could be used but have not been.
Ireland's interests aren't important in Frankfurt.

Hitman Actual

Happy Monday wrote: »

Yes - we still have vetos as Lisbon was not ratified.
I take it you will oppose any referendum that interferes with our right to those vetos.

Okay... of those 4 issues I mentioned, tell me what changes under Lisbon? We have the same protections with Lisbon as with Nice. If you believe otherwise, then I'm seriously led to believe that Ganley has added brain-washing to his box of tricks.

BlitzKrieg

In reference to the US - when innocent people were being murdered in Kosovo the US and UK indepenently intervened to save tens of thousands of lives while key European states sat on their hands. They wouldn't have moved to defend those people under any circumstances and yet you rabble on about a European desire for peacekeeping operations.

How did I miss this one,

as already pointed out, it was a nato intervention. And european/irish personal came in after as part of the UN and after that when Nato left a EU led force took over security for the transfer of power.

Alessandra

Raging that I missed him on our doorstep yesterday evening, was ready to give him a piece of my mind.

I fear that he is gaining support in the area though.. Particularly the way things are going, he seems to be an option for many people unfortunately..

Happy Monday

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

How did I miss this one, as already pointed out, it was a nato intervention. And european/irish personal came in after as part of the UN and after that when Nato left a EU led force took over security for the transfer of power.

NATO - a US/UK led operation.
France didn't budge.
France condemned the Irish electorate for failing to ratify the Lisbon treaty.
Any of you care to comment on this?

BlitzKrieg

The point is that the EU is taking no measures to keep the Euro aligned to GBP. Even use of monetary tools of buying/selling currency on the international markets to keep the values within range could be used but have not been.
Ireland's interests aren't important in Frankfurt.

Same thing I said earlier still applies, why should we put the rest of our trading partners out and in the process gain nothing in return to satisfy one that has made a mess of their economy?

Answer me that very simply.

P. Breathnach

Alessandra wrote: »

Raging that I missed him on our doorstep yesterday evening, was ready to give him a piece of my mind...

You would have been wasting your time. Do you think he is interested in your opinion or mine?

Happy Monday

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Same thing I said earlier still applies, why should we put the rest of our trading partners out and in the process gain nothing in return to satisfy one that has made a mess of their economy?

Answer me that very simply.

We don't need to put our trading partners out - our currencies are locked in as we speak.

We need to make in understood in Europe that we would like to see some level of alignment with the GBP.

They then would need to explain why this should or should not happen.

I'm sure a lot of traders who have seen their custom fly north would support me.

P. Breathnach

Happy Monday wrote: »

NATO - a US/UK led operation.
France didn't budge.
France condemned the Irish electorate for failing to ratify the Lisbon treaty.
Any of you care to comment on this?

Yes. You are making a very poor case.

Where does Ganley stand on NATO? Where does he stand on anything?

BlitzKrieg

NATO - a US/UK led operation.

with swedish, german, norweigen, austrian, russian (not nato but they came along anyway) etc.

France didn't budge.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/aug/08/nermajelacic.theobserver
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3720660.stm

*whistle*

I think its unfair that I dont mention where the flaw of this argument is unlike you prattling about Kosovo, I actually went there, so I met French people in Kosovo working with Nato, I have a nato kitchen tray which lists all the countries that were involved in kosovo, I got drunk with german soldiers in a *liberated* wine celler. So while it may sound arrogent, I actually know for a fact that the French were there with Nato.

France condemned the Irish electorate for failing to ratify the Lisbon treaty.
Any of you care to comment on this?

I already did many threads ago, Sarkozy can suck my balls and get back to running his own country.