Ganley to stand as candidate in the North West constituency for European Elections

P. Breathnach

Steviemak wrote: »

I don't like to listen to him talk because I know there are people out there who are actually been taken in by his lies.

It would be funny if he wasn't so dangerous.

The guy has some media expertise, possibly as the result of having hired in advisors for the Lisbon referendum who know how to run a negative campaign. That, and the fact that he already has a profile, is probably why he might poll at about 8%, a long way ahead of the likely performance of his Irish running mates. [All they appear to have learned about campaigning is that there is some profit in being negative, and that the facts don't matter.]

Update on Libertas policies: "The Libertas programme for a better Europe will be published on this site in the coming weeks." See http://www.libertas.eu/en/policies

thebman

Steviemak wrote: »

I don't like to listen to him talk because I know there are people out there who are actually been taken in by his lies.

It would be funny if he wasn't so dangerous.

I don't think anyone takes him seriously that wasn't already biased toward his viewpoint anyway.

They just have a box to tick now, I think there are people that might not have voted that will turn up just to make sure he doesn't get in. His controversy might increase turn out.

ednwireland

the problem here in donegal is people feel seperated from the rest of the country and to tell you the truth when you see who ganley's up against i can see him pulling in a lot of votes, i must have voted for some of the candidates last time but seriousley i dont think anyones heard anything from any of them even harkin disappeared and resurfced a few months ago. i'm looking through the list and wondering who to vote for cos i cant see anyone worthy of my vote
FF- Pat the Cope
FF- Paschal Mooney
FG- Jim Higgins
FG-Joe Oreilly
Lab- Susan OKeeffe
Sinn Fein - Padraig MacLochlainn
Libertas- Declan Ganley
Independent-Marian Harkin
Independent-Michael McNamara

it'll be depressing to give my vote to SF just cos there's no option sorry just read his website not going down that road either. its going to be tough in that cubicle on the 5th of june i could be there a while

is_that_so

It's all in the transfers. Unlike East and South the Northwest will be a lot more competitive. In 2004 SF polled more 1st preferences than Jim Higgins but they ended up fourth. Even Dana and McDaid got double figures each. Ganley is no different to SF and by the looks of the last election needs 16% + to stand a chance as his transfers will dive. It is doubtful that he is getting the same numbers across the whole constituency and in the end will need a very large chunk of the Galway votes to put him in the running.

PopeBuckfastXVI

is_that_so wrote: »

It's all in the transfers. Unlike East and South the Northwest will be a lot more competitive. In 2004 SF polled more 1st preferences than Jim Higgins but they ended up fourth. Even Dana and McDaid got double figures each. Ganley is no different to SF and by the looks of the last election needs 16% + to stand a chance as his transfers will dive. It is doubtful that he is getting the same numbers across the whole constituency and in the end will need a very large chunk of the Galway votes to put him in the running.

I live and work in Galway City, and I haven't heard of anyone who is going to vote for him.

P. Breathnach

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I live and work in Galway City, and I haven't heard of anyone who is going to vote for him.

Clearly you move in the wrong circles.

I don't know anybody in my neck of the woods who is going to vote for him, either. But right-wing loo-lahs are unlikely to figure in my circle of friends.

Scofflaw

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The guy has some media expertise, possibly as the result of having hired in advisors for the Lisbon referendum who know how to run a negative campaign. That, and the fact that he already has a profile, is probably why he might poll at about 8%, a long way ahead of the likely performance of his Irish running mates. [All they appear to have learned about campaigning is that there is some profit in being negative, and that the facts don't matter.]

You could indeed say he has some hired in advisors - at the last count he had John McGuirk, Joe Trippi, and Lynton Crosby as campaign strategists, and Terry Prone as a media advisor. Those, now, are just the English-speaking ones - by all accounts he has French PR companies involved in the campaign in France, who are engaged in exactly the same kind of astroturf campaigns as we've seen here:

It had escaped (my notice), but Captain Europa had left a comment on this blog. What is funny is that the IP of the commentary is the same as that given by the comments of L for Libertas on other blogs and sites . As I have demonstrated, Captain Europa is a subcontracted by the Magician to the Libertas campaign.The loop is completed, Captain Europa = L for Libertas = The Enchanteur Media (Arnaud Dassier) + Image & Strategy (Edouard Fillia).

The two companies/individuals referred to last are French PR consultancies, and the identities "L for Libertas" and "Captain Europa" are the names they use when leaving 'grassroots' comments on French blogs.

I don't know exactly what Ganley is spending on all this, but it has to be enormous.

cordially,
Scofflaw

ionix5891

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I live and work in Galway City, and I haven't heard of anyone who is going to vote for him.

unfortunatelly I do

one of these guys is a real a-hole and i had the displeasure of working with (there's not many people i've encountered who are so destructive, especially in a team project setting), he was one of the people going on about corpo tax last year and now is subscribed to their newsletter, the guy would fit right in in a SS uniform :eek:

conchubhar1

have they even released a manifesto?

Scofflaw

conchubhar1 wrote: »

have they even released a manifesto?

Not yet:

www.libertas.eu/policies wrote:

The Libertas programme for a better Europe will be published on this site in the coming weeks.

I daresay a lot is being said on the doorsteps, but the great advantage of that is that you can say something different on every doorstep. I'm beginning to feel that they meant what they said when they said they'd tell us what they wanted to do after the election.

cordially,
Scofflaw

K-9

ednwireland wrote: »

the problem here in donegal is people feel seperated from the rest of the country and to tell you the truth when you see who ganley's up against i can see him pulling in a lot of votes, i must have voted for some of the candidates last time but seriousley i dont think anyones heard anything from any of them even harkin disappeared and resurfced a few months ago. i'm looking through the list and wondering who to vote for cos i cant see anyone worthy of my vote
FF- Pat the Cope
FF- Paschal Mooney
FG- Jim Higgins
FG-Joe Oreilly
Lab- Susan OKeeffe
Sinn Fein - Padraig MacLochlainn
Libertas- Declan Ganley
Independent-Marian Harkin
Independent-Michael McNamara

it'll be depressing to give my vote to SF just cos there's no option sorry just read his website not going down that road either. its going to be tough in that cubicle on the 5th of june i could be there a while

Having the same problem myself. I like Higgins personally so he'd be No.1 now, not a FG Supporter either.

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Clearly you move in the wrong circles.

I don't know anybody in my neck of the woods who is going to vote for him, either. But right-wing loo-lahs are unlikely to figure in my circle of friends.

I think even Ganley implied this in his RTE interview on Monday. It isn't even right wing loo lahs, it's another demographic. Personally I think it's FF/FG voters who like his slant on Europe and don't have the same party allegiance at European election time.

This constituency always had a strong independent/protest vote, going back to Blayney days. I think FF are in danger though the addition of Pat the Cope will help. I think FG are a cert, probably FF Second though they'll struggle.

Can't see McLochlainn getting near Dohertys vote but I think he will get more transfers this time, think it's Harkin/Ganley or McLochlain for the 3rd seat. Will be very tight between those 3, IMO, very little between them.

Not sure how Longford/Westmeath will affect things. Maybe more Mooney territory than the rest?

oscarBravo

Strongly tempted to give O'Keefe my number one. I like the cut of her jib.

Lockstep

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I live and work in Galway City, and I haven't heard of anyone who is going to vote for him.

I do unfortunately.


Basic profile I've noticed seems to be the following;
religious (rabidly anti-choice)
Xenphobic, hate the amount of immigrants in Galway (one Ganley supporter I met told me how his night in town was ruined as he had to wait an hour to find a taxi driver who wasn't black)
Middle class, anti Lisbon Treaty(would never vote for Sinn Féin)

I've met the most Ganley supporters outside churches in Galway's middle class areas.

Lockstep

oscarBravo wrote: »

Strongly tempted to give O'Keefe my number one. I like the cut of her jib.

I've been canvassing for her.

I'm impressed with her, exposé of the Beef tribunal and willingness to go to jail to protect her sources shows an integrity and guts which an MEP needs.

MazG

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I don't know that he can turn the lisbon 'no' vote into a ganley 'yes' vote.

I was talking to one SF hopeful in the coming locals in Galway City who had absolutely no love for Ganley.

Never mind Dublin I think he'd be better off running in England where his natural eurosceptic tory base lives.

Still I'm not going to complain if it turns out he's made a fatal mistake by running in the west of Ireland.

I'm just looking forward to giving him my last preference.

Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it be best not to vote for him at all so that he cannot get any transfers from either surpluses or eliminations from your vote? I'm open to correction here though

I'm planning to give my number one to Marian Harkin, but I've yet to decide who will get my other preferences and how far down the ballot I will go

PopeBuckfastXVI

MazG wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it be best not to vote for him at all so that he cannot get any transfers from either surpluses or eliminations from your vote? I'm open to correction here though

I'm planning to give my number one to Marian Harkin, but I've yet to decide who will get my other preferences and how far down the ballot I will go

Hi MazG,

Yeah if he's last on the ballot there's pretty much no chance of him picking up a transfer, because any of the others would get it first, and if he's last standing after all else are eliminated he'll be elected without reaching the quota, so if he's the only one you don't mark, or if you give him last place it's all the same.

Still for psychological reasons I probably won't write an actual number beside his name, I know what I'd like to write, but then my vote would be spoiled... :pac:

PopeBuckfastXVI

kickoutthejams wrote: »

one Ganley supporter I met told me how his night in town was ruined as he had to wait an hour to find a taxi driver who wasn't black.

Show me a party that would bring in blue cards for a$$holes like that, or better yet kick them out of the country and they'd have my vote

MazG

Thanks for clarifying. I had thought that you should only give votes for candidates that you would actually want to see elected, but I wasn't sure where I'd gotten that idea from, so it's good to know I hadn't dreamt it up after all! Does it count as a spoiled vote if you draw a silly moustache on his picture on the ballot paper (are there pictures on the ballot paper - or did I dream that too?!)

PopeBuckfastXVI

MazG wrote: »

Does it count as a spoiled vote if you draw a silly moustache on his picture on the ballot paper (are there pictures on the ballot paper - or did I dream that too?!)

I'm afraid that's spoiling it! Maybe pilfer a poster for your dartboard after it's all over

Yah I've seen pics on the GE ballots, I assume they'll be on the Euro's too??

MazG

Just sat down this evening to do a bit of research on the European Parliament Candidates in the North West. I've read a lot both here on boards and from other sources and I cannot find anything that would encourage me to vote for Declan Ganley. Here's hoping that voters make an effort to inform themselves before 5 June. I'll be harrassing my workmates, family and friends to put aside a bit of time to do some research before entering the poll booth, whatever way they decide to vote. Thanks to everyone on this thread for a very interesting read.

Now, next step is to look up my Local Election candidates (one of whom turned up at my local church two weeks ago with his "mobile clinic", which looked astonishingly similar to a small caravan. Remarkably, I hadn't even been aware of his existence until run-up to the election. I was amazed that his 'mobile-clinic' hadn't been a regular feature around the town for the past few years!);)

thebman

I don't understand why anyone would give the guy any preference. If there is any likelyhood (hell even if there isn't) I wouldn't give any preference to the guy if I could vote for him (not a candidate in my area).

The Libertas candidate running in the East will not be getting any preference from me that is for sure. I have a leaflet from him that reads like comedy.

BlitzKrieg

Just out of curiosity and this has been bugging me for ages.

How was it decided that Declan Ganley is leader of Libertas?

I mean its a party right? Shouldnt they have had a vote? When did they have it? Before Libertas grew in size?

If he was not elected then doesnt that throw the whole notion of Libertas as a democratic movement into question in some manner?

Now I know the joke answer is that he had the money, but I would like a serious answer, is this not an issue for a european party not to have elections within its own organisation to select its leader.

Scofflaw

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Just out of curiosity and this has been bugging me for ages.

How was it decided that Declan Ganley is leader of Libertas?

I mean its a party right? Shouldnt they have had a vote? When did they have it? Before Libertas grew in size?

If he was not elected then doesnt that throw the whole notion of Libertas as a democratic movement into question in some manner?

Now I know the joke answer is that he had the money, but I would like a serious answer, is this not an issue for a european party not to have elections within its own organisation to select its leader.

It may be a joke answer, but it's also the only answer. Ganley is Libertas' leader because he's the guy with the money. I've never heard of any internal voting, and as far as I know the only members of Libertas are those who were selected to join in order to pass the membership requirements for recognition as a party.

cordially,
Scofflaw

BlitzKrieg

So despite being a party strongly in favour of democratic change, they themselves do not abide by a democratic system.


wow

thebman

Not really surprising.

I consider them to be about as serious a party as the Monster Raving Looney party in Britain.

Scofflaw

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

So despite being a party strongly in favour of democratic change, they themselves do not abide by a democratic system.


wow

Well, this is what they say about themselves (it's on their Wiki page, but the tone of the page rather strongly suggests they wrote it themselves):

Person|Position|Notes
Declan Ganley|Chairman|Term of office not specified
Jens-Peter Bonde|Brussels Office Manager |
Joe Trippi | Electoral consultant |American Democratic campaign consultant.|Worked on the presidential campaigns of Edward Kennedy, Walter Mondale, Gary Hart, Dick Gephardt, and John Edwards.
Lynton Crosby| Electoral consultant| Australian campaign consultant. Worked on the election campaigns of John Howard, Michael Howard, and Boris Johnson.
Anita Kelly|Spokesperson |
John McGuirk|Spokesperson |Was named as a Libertas spokesperson in Slovakia in February 2009.


This is the bit on "Structure":

Libertas's intended structure has evolved with time. It was originally intended to be an alliance of national parties,[4] but it was later envisaged as a single pan-European party with candidates running as individual members of Libertas.[4] By the end of April 2009, Libertas's structure had settled into an loose association of national member parties (either new or pre-existing), with each member party adhering to a set of core principles (see below) but retaining its independence and adding on additional policies as it felt appropriate.[34]

For the purposes of contending the 2009 European Parliament elections, Libertas candidates run under lists (the lists of candidates presented to voters in an European election) branded with the Libertas identity, as exemplified by the French approach.[35][36] Each list is made up of some combination of the following:

* members of member parties
* members of affiliate parties (parties that are not members of Libertas.eu but cooperate with it electorally)
* individual members (people who have chosen to join Libertas.eu as individuals).

New national member parties established by Libertas have names in the "Libertas X" format, e.g. "Libertas Sweden"[37] (except in the UK[nb 2]). Pre-existing national member parties were asked to change their names to include the word "Libertas" in the title.[38] Members of member parties are members of Libertas automatically unless they choose otherwise.

Affiliate parties retain their original names.[39][40] Members of affiliate parties are not members of Libertas unless they choose to join as individuals.

From that, it would appear that Libertas itself is simply an umbrella organisation - indeed, it's a company: The Libertas Party Limited. The advantage of being a company, I would say, is that companies are not internally democratic. Presumably the shareholders could vote Mr Ganley out...but I would take a shrewd guess at who the shareholders are.

To call it a 'closed corporation' is, I think, no more than the literal truth. If successful (and I appreciate I sound like Chicken Little here!) it will be a company with some rather splendid assets - to wit, control of the European Parliament, and the right to reject the EU Commission and elect its President. If the loan deals Ganley has made with the Eastern European parties now under Libertas are real loan deals, then theoretically the whole lot is transferrable - you could actually sell Libertas to the highest bidder.

cordially,
Scofflaw

BlitzKrieg

you could actually sell Libertas to the highest bidder.

thats pretty scary


I actually emailed a UK libertas candidate about it out of curiosity. Mostly because Caroline Simons knows me by name personnally now and wont talk to me

on a humorous note, here are some libertas candidates raping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwRYeBuwR0U

I think...

P. Breathnach

Scofflaw wrote: »

... you could actually sell Libertas to the highest bidder.

So they are not political mould-breakers after all.

djpbarry

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

on a humorous note, here are some libertas candidates raping:

A new low for Libertas.

kevteljeur

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So they are not political mould-breakers after all.

I disagree - they are doing things differently by removing the middleman. Instead of Party A getting paid off by Company X to reflect their interests, Company X has entered the fray directly.

I'm not saying it's good, but it's probably vastly more cost-effective, if successful, to get what your company wants. It might start a revolution in Politics:

Vote Joe Murphy for Diageo! Better pints now!

Niamh Shaughnessy for extended VHI cover!


(etc)


.