The mains keeps tripping out ?

fishdog

Most/all of us here think you have 2 issues:
1) The appliance.
2) The wiring in your house does not seem to be normal. It may be unsafe.

As RoundyMooney said:

The most likely culprit is an RCD (a type of breaker) in your meter cab that SHOULDN'T be there

flynnboy:

Why on Earth would this be anything other than a problem that has developed with this appliance?

I think that this is one of your problems, as I said:

1) A problem has developed recently with the appliance.

This fault could be in the form of:

(a) Overload. For example, when an electrical heating element approaches the end of its life it sometimes it’s resistance reduces dramatically. This reduced resistance can cause excessive current to flow, causing the protective device (MCB, fuse, RCBO) to operate.

(b) A short circuit which could be between live & neutral or live & earth or neutral & earth.


I would be more concerned about is that your wiring does not seem normal.

Just because the appliance worked in the past does not mean that it was ever operating safely!

I would guess that the circuit is fine, but without testing it I cannot say so for sure. I would start with an insulation resistance test if was there. This requires special test equipment.
All we are doing here is making educated guesses. Although you are giving us as much information as possible we still do not know enough to give definitive answers and therefore are reluctant to say something that could be wrong and result in a serious accident. Bear in mind you untrained and dealing with a lethal voltage! You should really get a qualified electrician to look at it.

flynnboy

Now you guys have me worried:eek:

I have attached 3 pictures - 2 from the meter cabinet and 1 of the consumer unit.

The switch in question is the middle one in the picture labeled trip.jpg

It says on the switch: BD62 In=40A 2pol

So are you telling me that switch should not be there ? If not why not and why is it there?

fishdog

Ok, now we are getting places.

The 3rd picture shows a distribution board installed inside your meter cabinet.

So are you telling me that switch should not be there ?

Yes I am. All that should be there is the meter and the ESB main fuse unit that you can see below the board.

why not

It is against regulations would be one of several reasons.

why is it there?

Typically in the past a board such as this would be installed in that way to provide a temporary supply for builders etc so that the house could be built. It would seem that whoever wired the house simply connected the house to this temporary supply. I would have done this sort of thing in the past for a short period of time for test purposes when wiring the house. This should not have been left like this on a permanent basis.

Picture 2 shows a very dated consumer unit that appaers to have no RCD in it. Under current regulations (for many years now) it should contain an RCD to protect all of the sockets in the house. Also the consumer unit in the house has no main switch fuse in it which is not normal either.

It would seem that the RCD in the board in your meter cabinet is protecting the whole house (not normal) and I would guess that the main switch fuse (to the left of the RCD), is also protecting the house but this is not the way it should be done.

The whole house may draw more than 40 amps at times, which is beyond the rating of the RCD. This is not desirable either.

Does turning off the MCB to the right of the RCD have any effect?? It may be unused.

It says on the switch: BD62 In=40A 2pol

It is a 40A 2 pole RCD. When you press the black test button on the right it should operate. With this new information I would say that your problem is not a short circuit, but a fault between earth & neutral or live & earth within the appliance.

If the whole house goes out when this RCD is off it is feeding the whole house. This is not as it should be.

At a minimum you should get an electrician to:
1) Remove the board from the meter cabinet
2) Install a new consumer unit in the house in line with current regulations (this will then have an RCD just for the sockets and a main switch fuse).
3) Inspect the wiring in the house and report back to you his/her recommendations.
4) Check out the appliance!

flynnboy

Thanks a million fishdog.

That's all very depressing, sounds expensive:(

Typically in the past a board such as this would be installed in that way to provide a temporary supply for builders etc so that the house could be built.

This makes sense as the cabinet is on the side of the house that is an extension built about 10 years ago.

Will a new consumer unit come complete with all of the necessary fuses and breakers ?

My wife is away changing the appliance and so I should be able to say something about that later today. At least the thing developing a problem has highlighted the installation issue.

Thanks again for your detailed response :cool:

davelerave

surprsing you've not had any nuisance trips with the temp. supply hookup like that.you won't know exactly where you stand 'til after a complete inspection

fishdog

Will a new consumer unit come complete with all of the necessary fuses and breakers ?

A consumer unit can be bought and the MCBs can be added or removed as required to suit the needs of each installation.

sounds expensive

The good news is:
1) It will be cheaper now than a year or two ago!
2) It may be a blessing in disguise. A stitch in time.....

fishdog

you won't know exactly where you stand 'til after a complete inspection

+1

davelerave

the rcd not giving much bother is a good sign anyway(assuming its working 100%):) although having said that i can't quite tell if it's neutralized at the meter even(nothing at cut-out)

flynnboy

surprising you've not had any nuisance trips with the temp. supply hookup like that.

I have :rolleyes:...... Once or twice it has tripped inexplicably and before we bought the little oven. Why should it do that?

Does anyone have any idea at all of the kind of costs involved with what we've been talking about

davelerave

flynnboy wrote: »

I have :rolleyes:...... Once or twice it has tripped inexplicably and before we bought the little oven. Why should it do that?

Does anyone have any idea at all of the kind of costs involved with what we've been talking about

leakage current will cause a trip.(i can't tell from pics if the installation is neutralized,this will affect operation of rcd).impossible to guess cost of remedial work from here anyway.one more thing out of interest.are you still paying higher temporary rate for electricity?check the price per unit on your bill(i don't know if it defaults back to regular rate or not)

flynnboy

are you still paying higher temporary rate for electricity?(i don't know if it defaults back to regular rate or not)

Hmm, don't know about that. On my bill it says Tariff: Domestic Si guess not ?

davelerave

you're prob ok. just check the cost of your units

flynnboy

I have 2 costs for my units for some reason....
0.1597 euro: General Units
0.1640 euro: General units

Does that seem normal ? We only moved here to Ireland last November and so I am not yet quite familiar with things like the nuances of our bills.

Davy

flynnboy wrote: »

I have 2 costs for my units for some reason....
0.1597 euro: General Units
0.1640 euro: General units

Does that seem normal ? We only moved here to Ireland last November and so I am not yet quite familiar with things like the nuances of our bills.

Their was a price change in jan. That would explain that

flynnboy

Well I can now confirm that it was a faulty appliance. My wife has returned with a new oven exactly the same model and there is no problem.

But as a result we now have another problem, as you know.:(

Thanks for all of your advice and input with this.:D

Cheers

flynnboy

fishdog

No problem

flynnboy

:cool:

RoundyMooney

You could start with the latchyco who left the installation like that, if you can find them.

Best of luck.

flynnboy

That will have been the guy we bought the house off. I guess it would be a complete hiding to nothing trying to get him to do anything about it. Buyer beware....... my own fault. C'est la vie

RoundyMooney

Sure you can only act on the advice of your engineer.

You're not to blame here.

cossworxenergy

Davy wrote: »

If its taking in this much current i would suspect so. Possible short in the unit itself.

cooker should be coming off a 32Amp MCB and not on a socket circuit. Cooker should also be on it own individual circuit and not on a socket circuit with other appliances. Kitchens should be wired in two or more circuits. ie. splitting the loads of appliances. one circuit with dishwasher and couple of sockets other circuit with dishwasher and couple of sockets. Cooker should be wired directly from a 32amp MCB to cooker switch to a connection unit to the cooker. Need any more help PM me.:cool:

Stoner

There is no need to PM anyone about this, it removes potentially valuable information from other boards users, the info and advice should remain in the public domain.

cossworxenergy you posts are very helpful to boards users, thank you, however every now and then they tend to contain an element of what some may regard as pimping.
Just to let you know it's not allowed on boards, it's just one of the rules we all have to follow, thanks.