Lions 2009

Stealdo

zAbbo wrote: »

I think he'll take a total of 5 Fly Halves & Full backs.

In that case ROG, Jones, Wilkinson, Bryne & Kearney

What have fly halves and full backs got to do with eachother?

He'll take 3 fly halves, and 2 full backs (possibly a utility back that covers 15 too). I'd agree with the players you choose, as long as Wilkinson is fit. But how do you take a player who's got about 5 caps in the last 5 years? It's a real risk, but then, it's JW so probably worth it.

Chuchu

Insane article about this in the Sunday Times today.

Stephen Jones(the old one) picks just Rob Kearney and David Wallace from the Irish team. No BOD, POC or ROG. Also he plays Kearney on the wing as Lee Byrne is at full back.

Joke - his function is to basically announce that BOD and POC don't make his team - idiot! Anyway, he picks 8 Welsh so I guess that's a view of his selection criteria.

To put things in perspective - As with everyone else, I'm an admirer of Rob Kearney. However I'm not sure there's too many Irish rugby supporters who would be willing to argue that he deserves a place instead of Lee Byrne who is the outstanding full-back of the tournament. How the hell is this numpty paid to give such stupid opinions?

Jeremy Guscott picks David Wallace as his captain??? :D:D
Now I'm as much a fan of Wallace as the next guy but seriously .

g5fd6ow0hseima

worsley really ought to make the 15 in my opinion. Brilliant six nations from him

Stev_o

Lola Spoiled Puppeteer wrote: »

worsley really ought to make the 15 in my opinion. Brilliant six nations from him

Id be happy for him to bench or something, top tackler in the tournament which is amazing considering he only started 4 matches.

Het-Field

Appaling article by Steve Jones. He is either a wind up merchant, or the most deluded idiot (or a mirror image of Eoghan Harris). He is an anti Irish twat. Ireland are the Grand Slam champions, and he chooses Kearney out of position, and Wallace at the back. Drico, and O Connell are dead certs as far as I can see. Henson is a little puff, and commentator who picks Henson over O Driscoll is mad. O Connell the lionheart is another dead cert.

I would also consider the likes of Hayes, O Callaghna, Wallace, Heaslip and Kearney as necessary attributes of a Lions team

My 15

15 L.Byrne (Wales)
14.P.Sackey (England)
13.B.ODriscoll (Ireland)
12.T.Shanklin (Wales)
11.S.Williams (Wales)
10.S.Jones (Wales)
9.H.Ellis (England)
8.J.Heaslip (Ireland)
7.D.Wallace (Ireland)
6.T.Croft (England)
5.Alun Wyn Jones
4.P.OConnell (Ireland) Cpt
3.J.Hayes (Ireland)
2.J.Flannery (Ireland)
1.Gethin Jenkins (Wales)

16.D.Armitage (England)
17.T.Bowe (Ireland)
18.J.Morrison (Scotland)
19.G.D'Arcy (Ireland)
20.J.Roberts (Wales)
21.Ronan O Gara (Ireland)
22.M.Phillips (Wales)
23.R.Jones (Wales)
24.A.Strookosch (Soctland)
25.J.Worsley (England)
25.S.Shaw (England)
26.D.OCallaghan (Ireland)
27.E.Murray (Scotland)
28.R.Ford (Scotland)
29.M.Horan (Ireland)

RedorDead

Chuchu wrote: »

Insane article about this in the Sunday Times today.

Stephen Jones(the old one) picks just Rob Kearney and David Wallace from the Irish team. No BOD, POC or ROG. Also he plays Kearney on the wing as Lee Byrne is at full back.

Joke - his function is to basically announce that BOD and POC don't make his team - idiot! Anyway, he picks 8 Welsh so I guess that's a view of his selection criteria.

To put things in perspective - As with everyone else, I'm an admirer of Rob Kearney. However I'm not sure there's too many Irish rugby supporters who would be willing to argue that he deserves a place instead of Lee Byrne who is the outstanding full-back of the tournament. How the hell is this numpty paid to give such stupid opinions?

Jeremy Guscott picks David Wallace as his captain??? :D:D
Now I'm as much a fan of Wallace as the next guy but seriously .

The guy is a blinkered sensationalist muppet. He also only gave O driscoll 7 out of 10 in the ratings despite him being widely lauded as man of the match.

homergriffin

I'm pretty sure my opinion will change a number of times before the Lions but here it is at the moment.

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Jerry Flannery
3. Euan Murray
4. Alun Wyn-Jones
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Joe Worsley
8. David Wallace
9. Mike Phillips
10. Steve Jones
11. Shane Williams
12. Riki Flutey
13. Brian O'Driscoll (c)
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Lee Byrne

16. Lee Mears
17. John Hayes
18. Simon Shaw
19. Jamie Heaslip
20. Mike Blair
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Rob Kearney

23. Julian White
24. Alistair Dickinson
25. Nathan Hynes
26. Martin Williams
27. Tom Croft
28. Gareth Cooper
29. Tom Shanklin
30. Luke Fitzgerald
31. Mark Cueto
32. Delon Armitage

Logan's team is a good team from that post earlier. Steven Jones is a lunatic. I'm amazing Ferris hasn't featured in any of the teams and that Croft is a starter in most. I have to say McGeechan and co have a very difficult job ahead of them.

corny

1. G Jenkins
2. R Ford (Take your pick really but i need a Scotsman)
3. A R Jones
4. A W Jones
5. P O Connell
6. S Ferris
7. M Williams
8. D Wallace
9. D Peel
10. R O Gara
11. L Fitzgerald
12. R Flutely
13. B O Driscoll (Capt)
14. T Bowe
15. L Byrne

7 Irish
6 Welsh
1 Scot
1 Kiwi blow in

I was surprised i could only come up with 1 honouary Englishman but with Sackey, Worsely, Croft, Ellis, Armitage etc... you've just got better options in their positions IMO. Shane Williams probably should start on reputation alone but he's been outshone this 6N's. For me no Lions coach should leave out Byrne, Bowe, BOD, Wallace, Williams, POC and AW Jones. They should all be definites for the first test in my view.

twinytwo

Stev_o wrote: »

Post 6N team for me.

15.Armitage
14.Bowe
13.O'Driscoll
12.Flutey
11.Evans/Monye
10.????
9.?????
8.Heaslip
7.Wallace
6.Ferris
5.AW Jones
4.O'Connell
3.Murray
2.Mears
1.Jenkins

Can't really decide on a 10 and Blair who was a shoe in for 9 has been poor so i dunno who will end up over taking him.

Flutey is a bitch got made look like an amature by O'Driscoll and the SA's will do a whole lot worse... Shane Willaims will start and either Byrne or Kearney will start at FB with the other in reserve

twinytwo

Team will most proib be

1. Jenkins
2. Flannery
3. Murray
4. Alun Wyn-Jones
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Blair
10. Jones/OGara
11. Williams
12. Roberts
13 O'Driscoll
14 Bowe
15 Kearney/Byrne

the whole irish back row should play as a unit.. no other option besides either Kearney or Byrne at FB Drico,O'Connell and Williams pick themselves

It would be a farce if any english players with the exception of tait made the starting 15

subfreq

The only change I would make to your lineup would be Flutey at 12 if he holds his form. Roberts has size but is no where near as dynamic as Flutey who is really developing into a player of true international class.

Webbs

I think that it is a bit early for Flutey, yes he showed up well against France and Scotland but France was the most inept defending I have ever seen in the 6Nations for many a year, so although I think he is going to be a good centre I still am not sure as he didnt really do anything against Ireland and Wales when the pressure was on.

telemachus

twinytwo wrote: »

Team will most proib be

1. Jenkins
2. Flannery
3. Murray
4. Alun Wyn-Jones
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Blair
10. Jones/OGara
11. Williams
12. Roberts
13 O'Driscoll
14 Bowe
15 Kearney/Byrne

the whole irish back row should play as a unit.. no other option besides either Kearney or Byrne at FB Drico,O'Connell and Williams pick themselves

It would be a farce if any english players with the exception of tait made the starting 15

I'd be astounded if Tait was in the Lions squad, let alone the starting line-up, I watched every England game and not only did he barely play, but the few minutes he had were usually out on the wing despite him being a centre.

I'd put him in a similar situation to Cipriani, impressive in flashes but prone to go missing for long periods and make some nasty errors (I think it was against Ireland he made a break and looking straight ahead completely missed a totally open Flutey on his left) I think he's got some way to go to become a reliable international player, and unfortunately England aren't anywhere near good enough yet to carry players while they find their feet.

pucan

delta_bravo wrote: »

Anyone else think Paterson should be brought along as a backup? Such a dependable kicker, i heard some stat he hasnt missed a kick for 2 years. His experience could be useful

He missed a few against munster when he was with Gloucester. He woulod be a good utility back to bring.

ScholesyIsGod

The good thing about this tour is that when Geech picks his squad that will be the only thing finalised when the team sets off for South Africa. Unlike Woodward, McGeechan wont have his test XV already decided before the tour starts, if guys perform well when they train and back it up in the warm up games then they'll be selected on the back of that which may well lead to a few surprises come the first test.

twinytwo

telemachus wrote: »

I'd be astounded if Tait was in the Lions squad, let alone the starting line-up, I watched every England game and not only did he barely play, but the few minutes he had were usually out on the wing despite him being a centre.

I'd put him in a similar situation to Cipriani, impressive in flashes but prone to go missing for long periods and make some nasty errors (I think it was against Ireland he made a break and looking straight ahead completely missed a totally open Flutey on his left) I think he's got some way to go to become a reliable international player, and unfortunately England aren't anywhere near good enough yet to carry players while they find their feet.

Tait is one of the most talented players in english rugby he is the English Geordan Murphy.. He and Gerathy(sp) dont get to play because Johnson frankly dosent have a clue what he is doing

Stealdo

ScholesyIsGod wrote: »

The good thing about this tour is that when Geech picks his squad that will be the only thing finalised when the team sets off for South Africa. Unlike Woodward, McGeechan wont have his test XV already decided before the tour starts, if guys perform well when they train and back it up in the warm up games then they'll be selected on the back of that which may well lead to a few surprises come the first test.

At last some appreciation for how these tours work. Guys like Jeremy Davidson, Will Greenwood, Paul Wallace etc would never have gone to SA in '97 as expected starters, but fought there way in on tour.

As for all this manlove for Riki Flutey - am I the only one who thinks Mercenaries like Flutey should be excluded from the Lions?

As for the talk of Joe Worsley - the guy is a lump. There is no way in the world he'll start a test at 7 top tackler or not. Would be very surprised if he tours considering the back row competition.

I reckon right now, the following will tour...

1. Jenkins, Sheridan
2. Flannery, Ford, Mears
3. Murray, Jones, Vickery
4. DOC, Borthwick
5. POC, AWJ
6. Ferris, Ryan Jones, Croft
7. Williams, Wallace
8. Heaslip, Easter
9. Philips, Blair, Care
10. Jones, O'Gara, Wilkinson
11. Williams, Fitzgerald
12. Roberts, Darcy (struggled to pick 1, which maybe explains eveyrone else picking Flutey)
13. BOD, Shanklin
14. Bowe, Evans
15. Byrne, Kearney, Armitage

That's 36 to tour inluding 12 Irish, 11 Welsh, 9 English, and 4 Scots and pretty much every one of them in with a shout of starting a test match. Obviously some maybe be swapped around to accomodate others, eg POC and AWJ possibly playing together, but I'm not convinced that's the best way to go. I'm sure some will question Borthwick in there, but I reckon he'll end up going because of a lack of quality alternatives and being the England captain. Their mini revival will cause a lot more English to be included than would have been the case.

themont85

Stealdo wrote: »

At last some appreciation for how these tours work. Guys like Jeremy Davidson, Will Greenwood, Paul Wallace etc would never have gone to SA in '97 as expected starters, but fought there way in on tour.

As for all this manlove for Riki Flutey - am I the only one who thinks Mercenaries like Flutey should be excluded from the Lions?

As for the talk of Joe Worsley - the guy is a lump. There is no way in the world he'll start a test at 7 top tackler or not. Would be very surprised if he tours considering the back row competition.

I reckon right now, the following will tour...

1. Jenkins, Sheridan
2. Flannery, Ford, Mears
3. Murray, Jones, Vickery
4. DOC, Borthwick
5. POC, AWJ
6. Ferris, Ryan Jones, Croft
7. Williams, Wallace
8. Heaslip, Easter
9. Philips, Blair, Care
10. Jones, O'Gara, Wilkinson
11. Williams, Fitzgerald
12. Roberts, Darcy (struggled to pick 1, which maybe explains eveyrone else picking Flutey)
13. BOD, Shanklin
14. Bowe, Evans
15. Byrne, Kearney, Armitage

That's 36 to tour inluding 12 Irish, 11 Welsh, 9 English, and 4 Scots and pretty much every one of them in with a shout of starting a test match. Obviously some maybe be swapped around to accomodate others, eg POC and AWJ possibly playing together, but I'm not convinced that's the best way to go. I'm sure some will question Borthwick in there, but I reckon he'll end up going because of a lack of quality alternatives and being the England captain. Their mini revival will cause a lot more English to be included than would have been the case.

Powell for Easter and Flutey for Roberts and that would be my squad. Oh and please not Borthwick, an honest but average player.

telemachus

twinytwo wrote: »

Tait is one of the most talented players in english rugby he is the English Geordan Murphy.. He and Gerathy(sp) dont get to play because Johnson frankly dosent have a clue what he is doing

Completely disagree on all counts , Tait is a promising but unreliable and relatively lightweight centre who needs alot more international game time, which he won't get until the England team stabilises itself enough to afford the risk he represents. He isn't ready to be a permanent starter on a shabby England team, let alone on a Lions tour.

Also disagree on kneejerk assesments of Johnson, he inherited the shambolic mess that has been the England team for a good 4 years, given the time Robinson was allowed to turn things around it's ridiculously early to make final judgements.

velocirafter

Stealdo wrote: »

As for all this manlove for Riki Flutey - am I the only one who thinks Mercenaries like Flutey should be excluded from the Lions?

its definitely morally ambiguous

Jam-Fly

IRISH DOMINATED LIONS XV

1. Genkins (WAL)--1. Flannery (IRE)--3. Hayes (IRE)

---4. Alwyn-Jones (WAL)---5.O'Connell (IRE)

--6. Ferris (IRE)---8. Heaslip (IRE)---7. Wallace (IRE)


9.Blair (SCO)

---

10.O'Gara (IRE)

11.Williams (WAL)---12.Flutey (ENG)---13.O'Driscoll (IRE)---14.Bowe (IRE)

---

15.Kearney(IRE)

---

That's my Irish biased 15. Realistically, that won't be the team. I think a case can be made for any Irish player to start, but due to the coaching staff and the fact there is some pretty stiff competition, I don't think there'll be that many Irish players.

NON-IRISH DOMINATED LIONS XV

1. Genkins (WAL)--2. Rees (WAL)--3. Vickery (ENG)

---4. Alwyn-Jones (WAL)---5.O'Connell (IRE)

--6. Ferris (IRE)---8. Heaslip (IRE)---7. M.Williams(WAL)


9.Blair (SCO)----10.Jones(WAL)

11.Williams (WAL)---12.Flutey (ENG)---13.O'Driscoll (IRE)---14.Sackey (ENG)

---

15.Byrne (WAL)

---

Some combination between those two teams is the team that will be picked imo.
Debatable positions:

Tight-head - Not sure who to pick here. Vickery is probably the best available, but I would love if Hayes got to start.
Back-Row - I personally think the strongest backrow is one of 6. Ferris, 7. Wallace, 8. Heaslip. The Irish back-row was immense during the 6N and I see no reason why these 3 shouldn't start.
10. - It's either Jones or O'Gara. This is probably the closest call imo. I think O'Gara showed an improvement in his running and his physicality during the 6N. It's a toss-up, but obviously in any 50-50 call, I'll choose the Irish guy, so O'Gara (but I don't think the Lions coaching staff will share my sentiments!)
Inside-Centre - Bleh, don't know who to pick here. Henson, Shanklin, D'Arcy all could be picked. Don't really like Henson, so he's not picked. Shanklin is usually a 13 so he's not picked. D'arcy isn't good enough so he's not picked. Instead I went with a guy who scored 4 tries in the 6N, Riki Flutey. Yeah, it's obviously not a standard pick but who cares.
14. - Sackey or Bowe. My preference goes to Bowe
Full-Back - Kearney had a great 6N and I am sure he will be putting Byrne under huge pressure for his starting place. Hopefully Kearney will start.


So, if I HAD to choose my XV right now, it would be...
1. Genkins
2. Flannery
3. Vickery
4. Alwyn-Jones
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

9. Blair
10. O'Gara
11. Williams
12. Flutey
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Byrne

sslazio11

velocirafter wrote: »

its definitely morally ambiguous

I don't think Flutey should be picked. He has no English heritage, he didn't grow up there, he already played AGAINST the Lions in 2005 with Wellington and he's signed with Brive in France for next season because the money is better than at Wasps.

Good luck to the guy, I wouldn't begrudge anyone maximising their worth financially, but no way should he be let near a Lions team. Devalues the whole thing as far as I'm concerned. I just hope McGeehan sees it that way.

pisslips

Can Shanklin play 12?
He was the second best centre in the 6N.

Also, i'd imagine they'll have Jones ahead of O'Gara, O'Gara V Shalke:eek:

I'd have Wallace ahead of M Williams for now.

Also S Williams shouldn't make the first 15, maybe impact sub and Sackey shouldn't be anywhere near it.

That English winger who scored a try and caught thom evans against Scotland looks class though.

Also Thom Evans is in with a shout along with our own Tommy Bowe.

Fitzgerald won't make it though.

Is everyone forgetting about Euan Murray?

And Sergio Parisse for the laugh.

twinytwo

pisslips wrote: »

Can Shanklin play 12?
He was the second best centre in the 6N.

Also, i'd imagine they'll have Jones ahead of O'Gara, O'Gara V Shalke:eek:

I'd have Wallace ahead of M Williams for now.

Also S Williams shouldn't make the first 15, maybe impact sub and Sackey shouldn't be anywhere near it.

That English winger who scored a try and caught thom evans against Scotland looks class though.

Also Thom Evans is in with a shout along with our own Tommy Bowe.

Fitzgerald won't make it though.

Is everyone forgetting about Euan Murray?

And Sergio Parisse for the laugh.

I think you mean ... anyone v schalk:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:... the man is a human wrecking ball... Shane Williams second best winger in the world after big joe... got the ball once against us and cut us to bits. had he not slipped he prob would have scored. He will start simple as i take him on a bad day over any of the other wingers

1. Jenkins
2. Flannery
3. Murray
4. Alwyn-Jones
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

9. Philips
10. Jones
11. Kearney
12. Hook
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Byrne

8 Irish
6 Welsh
1 Scot
0 English (I dont care how many trys he scores,Ricky Flutey is not good enough,simple as.)

Hook has played 12 for the Ospreys before and imo he is a 12 and not a 10,he is undoubtedly a class player,very physical and offers another kicking option.
You could argue he played little this 6 nations but he wasnt playing badly before and if he plays well in the H-Cup why not?
Either him or Roberts at 12 for me.

GiftofGab

pisslips wrote: »

Can Shanklin play 12?
He was the second best centre in the 6N.

Tell you what you could do. Stick BOD in at no.7 for a warm up match and see how he gets on!! Sounds outrages i know but he'd be one of the best flankers in the world. He plays like a flanker in the centre of the pitch. Shanklin had a great six nations. It would be difficult to leave him out of the team.

Johnnyjump

I would imagine that Tommy Bowe would have to be a certainty, after some of the finest running we saw on Saturday.

Johnnyjump

If Ireland doesn't have the bulk of the players on The Lions team, there'll be something radically wrong.

Stev_o

Ivy Sour Fluff wrote: »

1. Jenkins
2. Flannery
3. Murray
4. Alwyn-Jones
5. O'Connell
6. Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip

9. Philips
10. Jones
11. Kearney
12. Hook
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Byrne

8 Irish
6 Welsh
1 Scot
0 English (I dont care how many trys he scores,Ricky Flutey is not good enough,simple as.)

Hook has played 12 for the Ospreys before and imo he is a 12 and not a 10,he is undoubtedly a class player,very physical and offers another kicking option.
You could argue he played little this 6 nations but he wasnt playing badly before and if he plays well in the H-Cup why not?
Either him or Roberts at 12 for me.

They sorta came second you know? Also top try scorers. Anyone paticular reason your completing against their involvement?

dreamerbeliever

1. Jenkins
2. Flannery
3. Murray
4. A.W. Jones
5. O'Connell
6.Ferris
7. Wallace
8. Heaslip
9. Phillips
10. Jones
11. Fitzgerald
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Byrne

16.Vickery
17. Ford
18. O'Callaghan
19. R. Jones
20. Blair
21. O'Gara
22. S. Williams

So that's 9 Irish, 5 Welsh and 1 Scot.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

They sorta came second you know? Also top try scorers. Anyone paticular reason your completing against their involvement?

No reason.I just dont think any of their players are good enough for a starting spot.

Delon Armatage and Tom croft maybe vickery have a case but I can see many others.

anonymous_joe

1 or 2 of the outside backs will probably be English.

Keep in mind that the team that wins might not contain teh best individuals: I think our front row's great in the loose but weaker in the scrum than others.

I can see a backline of:

9. Philips
10. Wilkinson
11. x
12. Flutey
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. x

Why the x? Simply this - there are different options, and form while the guiding factor behind selection, must also pay tribute to style of player - is Shane Williams too small for example? Do you play Kearney because he's better under the ball.

Moncti48

Looking for Lions

Monday 23rd March 2009


The British and Irish rugby season is well and truly underway, and while all the players no doubt began their seasons focused on the tasks ahead, a greater prize awaits some 35-odd at the end of the season: a British and Irish Lions tour place.
The Six Nations is done and dusted, and perhaps a few fringe players now only have league and European ties left to prove any remaining points.
The call for the Lions tour squad will be made sometime in mid-April, so there are still four weeks of action to go. But for now, post-Six Nations, here's what the touring party could look like...
How it works:
We have selected in red a group of 27 'tour certainties', two full-backs, three wingers, three centres, two fly-halves, two scrum-halves, two number eights, two opensides, two blindsides, three locks, two tightheads, two hookers and two looseheads.
The number of actual tourists is likely to be 35, so eight of those marked as 'Standby tickets' on here will also travel, but we are not trying to second-guess the constitution of Ian McGeechan's squad for now. That will come after the Six Nations. As McGeechan himself said, those last eight or ten names are the hardest.
Also, the name that appears first in red is not necessarily the number one choice for a starting Test spot. We are, at this stage, only trying to guess the squad, not the Test team - that will come once the party has been selected!
Thus, as per the list below and for those among you who would like to speculate a little more precisely, the Test full-back could be either Lee Byrne or Delon Armitage. Let the bar debates begin!
In order to nudge up or down a place, a player must put in a significant performance and have the player above him produce a very average one, or put in a distinguished run of form over time. One-off brilliance is not necessarily rewarded, but consistency is, just as a loss of form will also be 'rewarded', but not necessarily one shocker.
So, after all that, and with time getting short to impress and secure a touring spot: here is our guess at the Lions tourists for June 2009. Anything to add?


Full-back
Pack your bags
Lee Byrne
Delon Armitage

Standby tickets
Chris Paterson
Rob Kearney(?????????This confuses me))

Keep June free
Hugo Southwell
Geordan Murphy


Notes: Delon Armitage continued his late charge to form against Scotland while Lee Byrne did just enough on the park to hold off the challenge of Rob Kearney. Given the latter's ability to play on the wing as well though, he is likely to make the tour cut anyway.

Wings
Pack your bags
Tommy Bowe (up)
Mark Cueto
Thom Evans (up)

Standby tickets
Luke Fitzgerald
Shane Williams (down)
Leigh Halfpenny (down)

Keep June free
Simon Danielli
Ugo Monye
Mark Jones (new)


Notes: The Welshmen are ousted from the wings after drawing a blank, with Tommy Bowe playing a central role in Ireland's attacking play and Thom Evans at the root of much that was good for Scotland. Mark Cueto continues to enjoy his latest stint in an England jersey.

Centres
Pack your bags
Riki Flutey (up)
Tom Shanklin
Brian O'Driscoll

Standby tickets
Gordon D'Arcy (up)
Jamie Roberts
Mike Tindall (down)

Keep June free
Gavin Henson (down)
Graeme Morrison
Max Evans




Notes: Another display of attacking running from Riki Flutey has him in the touring party (much to the patriotic disgust of several of you good enough to write in), while Gordon D'Arcy's head to head victory over Gavin Henson gets him up a spot at Henson's expense. Flutey bumps down team-mate Mike Tindall.

Fly-half
Pack your bags
Stephen Jones
Ronan O'Gara

Standby tickets
Phil Godman
Toby Flood

Keep June free
James Hook (down)
Danny Cipriani


Notes: Stephen Jones and Ronan O'Gara traded blow after blow on Saturday, both as good as each other in both attack and, more significantly, defence. Toby Flood keeps the pressure on both, but the Celts were streets ahead of their counterparts.

Scrum-half
Pack your bags
Mike Blair
Mike Phillips

Standby tickets
Harry Ellis
Tomas O'Leary (down)

Keep June free
Chris Cusiter (new)
Danny Care


Notes: Not much movement here, but Chris Cusiter moves onto the periphery and Dwayne Peel and Peter Stringer should still be considered, despite their recent lack of game-time. This is a position in which the Lions management will have some real headaches.

Number eight
Pack your bags
Ryan Jones (up)
Jamie Heaslip

Standby tickets
Nick Easter (down)
Simon Taylor

Keep June free
Andy Powell (down)
Ally Hogg


Notes: A tweak here, as Ryan Jones comes back to numebr eight from number six, for reasons explained in the blindside section. Nick Easter pays the price, while Gareth Delve drops off the radar completely.

Openside
Pack your bags
David Wallace
Martyn Williams

Standby tickets
John Barclay
Joe Worsley

Keep June free
Tom Rees
Scott Gray (new)


Notes: The top two did enough - just enough in Martyn Williams' case = to keep out the chasers, while Scott Gray begins a possible late charge?

Blindside
Pack your bags
Tom Croft (up)
Stephen Ferris

Standby tickets
Alasdair Strokosch (new)
James Haskell

Keep June free
Jonathan Thomas
Dafydd Jones


Notes: Tom Croft takes Ryan Jones' place, while Alasdair Strokosch's impressive display for Scotland lands him into the reckoning and allows Jones his positional switch. There is a shortage of specialists here - the re-emergence of Jonathan Thomas should be watched with interest. Surprised Leamy didnt get a mention after his game at the weekend

Second row
Pack your bags
Paul O'Connell
Donncha O'Callaghan
Alun-Wyn Jones

Standby tickets
Simon Shaw
Steve Borthwick
Jason White

Keep June free
Ian Gough
Nathan Hines
Nick Kennedy


Notes: As you were - Jason White appears to have found a new lease of life in the second row though.

Tighthead
Pack your bags
Adam Jones (up)
Euan Murray

Standby tickets
Phil Vickery
John Hayes (down)

Keep June free
Julian White
Rhys Thomas (new)


Notes: Adam Jones' work-rate bumps down John Hayes from tour spot, with Phil Vickery also unlucky not to be given an immediate ticket. Heavy competition between the top four here.

Hooker
Pack your bags
Lee Mears
Ross Ford

Standby tickets
Matthew Rees
Jerry Flannery (up)

Keep June free
Huw Bennett
Rory Best (down)


Notes: As you were on the plane, but there's some jostling in the standby lounge as Jerry Flannery built upon his chance against the Welsh on Saturday.

Loosehead
Pack your bags
Andrew Sheridan Gethin Jenkins

Standby tickets
Marcus Horan
Alasdair Dickinson

Keep June free
Tom Court
Allan Jacobsen


Notes: Gethin Jenkins and Andrew Sheridan continue to lead the way, but Alsadair Dickinson is putting a bit of pressure on.

need assistance

Looking at the boks and looking at talent we have, the big problem is number 10. Living in munster etc, etc., I wouldn;t bash OGara but Jones would get there in front of him. However if Wilkinson puts in one or two good games I would definitely have him on team (IMHO best footballer of my lifetime and even dragged England to 2007 final)

telemachus

It's a pity that at this stage it seems so unlikely, what with all the talk of the physicality of the boks you couldn't find a better choice for outhalf than him, close to Paterson like levels of accuracy and when he was fully fit he played like he was made of granite, there isn't an outhalf available for the Lions that even comes close to tackling he did.

Diamondmaker

Moncti48 wrote: »

Looking for Lions

[.

Where is that from ? < Ah found the clicky bit to Planet rugby >

thats the best format and best layout and best for clarity I have seen. easily copy and pasted for everyone else to come up with their own ideas.

I cant stand reading lions threads as it is so up in the air but that puts some structure to it and was quite good.

cheers !

Jackeenboy

There called the British and Irish Lions..

toomevara

telemachus wrote: »

, there isn't an outhalf available for the Lions that even comes close to tackling he did.

Yes, however, with just one 'small' hitch, it did entirely ruin his career, by leaving him in a state of perpetual injury..A 10's job is not defence....they are playmakers...all they need to do is slow down attackers through the 10 channel...good back-rowers should cover and take pressure off the fly, keeping him in the game...

blinding

need assistance wrote: »

Looking at the boks and looking at talent we have, the big problem is number 10. Living in munster etc, etc., I wouldn;t bash OGara but Jones would get there in front of him. However if Wilkinson puts in one or two good games I would definitely have him on team (IMHO best footballer of my lifetime and even dragged England to 2007 final)

If fit Wilkinson is a top player and probably better than Paterson in that he could also kick the longer ones as well.

But realistically even if Wilkinson gets fit before the tour how long will he be able to stand up to the type of battering that is to be expected in South Africa.

Noopti

If Wilkinson is picked for the plane, let alone the bloody test team I will immediately lose faith in McGeechan and the tour.

A player who is just over injury, has been consistently injured for the past number of years and hasn't played in six months does NOT deserve the be put ahead of Jones, O'Gara, Paterson OR Flood.

I am tired of people including Wilko and Lewsey in their squads. The squad should be made up of by a majority of current international players, who have been on form and playing consistently, or club players who have been in outstanding form. This nonsense of including retired internationals and picking players on past reputations is just like the 05 tour all over again.

Hopefully McGeechan has more sense.

toomevara

What about the tradition of an uncapped player? A relic of a bygone era or should we continue it? Who is the best uncapped player in Britain and Ireland? Any ideas?

sslazio11

twinytwo wrote: »

I think you mean ... anyone v schalk:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:... the man is a human wrecking ball... Shane Williams second best winger in the world after big joe... got the ball once against us and cut us to bits. had he not slipped he prob would have scored. He will start simple as i take him on a bad day over any of the other wingers

Shane Williams is a fine runner, but it wasn't an accident that ROG kicked to his wing 3 times in the second half. I also have memories of him being thrown around like a rag doll against New Zealand 4 years ago. I just think you can go after him defensively. He should be in the 22, definitely, but like all others, form will dictate whether he starts or not. I'd have Bowe ahead of him at the moment.

Catmologen

+1

Williams would be targeted straight away, the same as in the last Lions tour in NZ. Bowe was really impressive in the last game and burned Williams for pace so I would give him the nod.

Zzippy

toomevara wrote: »

What about the tradition of an uncapped player? A relic of a bygone era or should we continue it? Who is the best uncapped player in Britain and Ireland? Any ideas?

Is this not a Barbarians tradition? I know there have been uncapped players on the Lions before, but I didn't think it was a tradition. The last uncapped player to tour was Will Greenwood in 97, 3 tours ago, before he was capped for England, so its been a while. If it was a tradition I'd say its gone now.

As to your question, hmmm, anytime I've seen Topsy Ojo play I've been impressed. Steffon Armitage has also been playing very well. But then I only see GP highlights so maybe they're muck defenders!

Noopti

Zzippy wrote: »

Steffon Armitage has also been playing very well. But then I only see GP highlights so maybe they're muck defenders!

He is capped. He started in the England v Italy game.

stephen_n

sslazio11 wrote: »

Shane Williams is a fine runner, but it wasn't an accident that ROG kicked to his wing 3 times in the second half. I also have memories of him being thrown around like a rag doll against New Zealand 4 years ago. I just think you can go after him defensively. He should be in the 22, definitely, but like all others, form will dictate whether he starts or not. I'd have Bowe ahead of him at the moment.

Williams is perfectly fine with Lee Byrne playing behind him that's why Ireland didn't target that area untill Henson went to full back!!

Stev_o

Massive problem at 9 at the moment even more so then 10. I don't rate Philips nor TOL and Blair is out of form. Ellis has a shot at making it his with Leicester as a proving ground. I wouldn't mind Paul Hodgeson getting at least a back up slot though.

Chucky the tree

Noopti wrote: »

If Wilkinson is picked for the plane, let alone the bloody test team I will immediately lose faith in McGeechan and the tour.

A player who is just over injury, has been consistently injured for the past number of years and hasn't played in six months does NOT deserve the be put ahead of Jones, O'Gara, Paterson OR Flood.

I am tired of people including Wilko and Lewsey in their squads. The squad should be made up of by a majority of current international players, who have been on form and playing consistently, or club players who have been in outstanding form. This nonsense of including retired internationals and picking players on past reputations is just like the 05 tour all over again.

Hopefully McGeechan has more sense.

Lewsey has played very well for wasps anytime I've seen him this season. Mcgeechan will know how important having experienced players on the tour will happy. The fact he'll bring a small squad will also means he's alot more likely to bring players who cant play multiple positions.

I personally dont see the point in bringing Kearney, Byrne and Armitage. There 3 very similiar players. Byrne should go because he's the best player imo, then I think Kearney will get the nod because he can on the wing just as well as he can fullback. I think Patterson will be third because he's got plenty of experience, play multiple positions and he can take goal kicks.

Stev_o

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Lewsey has played very well for wasps anytime I've seen him this season. Mcgeechan will know how important having experienced players on the tour will happy. The fact he'll bring a small squad will also means he's alot more likely to bring players who cant play multiple positions.

I personally dont see the point in bringing Kearney, Byrne and Armitage. There 3 very similiar players. Byrne should go because he's the best player imo, then I think Kearney will get the nod because he can on the wing just as well as he can fullback. I think Patterson will be third because he's got plenty of experience, play multiple positions and he can take goal kicks.

Ah here now Kearney is a very good fullback but he is a bog standard wing who offers very little out there. Armitage covers 13 aswell which is a handy thing to have just in case Geech wanted to completely change his midfield for what ever reason during a match.

Chucky the tree

Stev_o wrote: »

Ah here now Kearney is a very good fullback but he is a bog standard wing who offers very little out there. Armitage covers 13 aswell which is a handy thing to have just in case Geech wanted to completely change his midfield for what ever reason during a match.

I never said he was a great wing, but he can do a job. I also think he did better at FB then armitage this 6nations so that's another reason I'd have him ahead.
Barring injury though he wont change his midfield. BOD is one of the few(only) player who will play the full 90 minutes and if we are in with a chance in the 3rd match.