Leninhan Confirms he is inept and not suitable to hold the Finace ministry

Darsad

Lenihan has confirmed that the increase in VAT was a mistake and has cost the exchequer up to € 700 Million. Well i am sorry but this kind of acceptance or apology is simply not good enough and he should resign.
A primary school child could see what the increase in VAT would do when we have such an open, accessable and cheaper market up the road in NI. We will all now have to be burdened with extra tax in the April budget which may have been avoided had he and his dept adopted policies that would have allowed our retailers to compete with NI .

peasant

We'll just let his junior minister take over the resort :D:D

Sleepy

Didn't I read in the Sunday Business Post that he's now appointed a respected economist as an advisor?

Sorry, don't have time to dig out the article. Seems like a step in the right direction though why the Department of Finance don't have people capable of advising the minister on economic matters is a bit of a mystery to me...

diverdriver

The incompetance won't end there. Wait until they increase taxes and discover the tax take drops again as the economy goes back to black. It's already happening with small contractors asking to be paid in cash.

Fratton Fred

Surely a better bet would be for the government to be trying to get the euro back to a more normal level against sterling? We are not talking abot a few percent difference we are talking 50%

mayfire

The tax take is plummeting and shortly he will be remembered as the minister who closed Ireland.

RobFowl

At least he admits his mistakes. I'll grudgingly give him some respect for that

P. Breathnach

Darsad wrote: »

Lenihan has confirmed that the increase in VAT was a mistake and has cost the exchequer up to € 700 Million...

Citation, please.

Blazer

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Citation, please.

jesus man..do you even read the news?
It's all over the place since last week.

sunshinediver

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Surely a better bet would be for the government to be trying to get the euro back to a more normal level against sterling? We are not talking abot a few percent difference we are talking 50%

The Euro rate is set by the European central Bank, Not the Irish Government. They couldn't raise it even if they wanted to.

If anyone bothered to read the original article (available on irishtimes.com) instead of listening to the dublin media hype they would see that Lenihan stated the prime reason for people shopping in the North was the exchange rate, However he said that the raising of VAT in the South didn't help this. VAT was only increased by 0.5%. Sterling devalued by approx 20% in the last 8 months. Think about it.. :cool:

is_that_so

He's had a very steep learning curve and it was the wrong time for a lawyer to be taking on a job like this. Although he does not have a completely monopoly on poor performance, his arrogance in the budget last October makes him look like a complete fool now. Resignation in my view won't solve anything as there is really no-one competent who could take his place. Apart from Cowen he's the only one with "experience" in the job.

Darsad

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Citation, please.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-admits-vat-error-cost-us-8364700m-1673385.html

Sorry thought everybody had heard this !

P. Breathnach

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

jesus man..do you even read the news?
It's all over the place since last week.

So no citation, then?

It might be useful to examine what Brian Lenihan said, rather than rely on comment.

Darsad

sunshinediver wrote: »

If anyone bothered to read the original article (available on irishtimes.com) instead of listening to the dublin media hype they would see that Lenihan stated the prime reason for people shopping in the North was the exchange rate, However he said that the raising of VAT in the South didn't help this. VAT was only increased by 0.5%. Sterling devalued by approx 20% in the last 8 months. Think about it.. :cool:

Sorry but the .5 % increase just sent all the wrong messages and anybody who was sitting on the fence got off on the Northern side after the budget announcement. Maybe its not a resigning matter its probably more a sacking one. Had he reduced the vat rate we probably would not be looking down the barrell of a gun next month

Blazer

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So no citation, then?

It might be useful to examine what Brian Lenihan said, rather than rely on comment.

no citation
that's what google is for :P

P. Breathnach

Darsad wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-admits-vat-error-cost-us-8364700m-1673385.html

Sorry thought everybody had heard this !

Thank you. Of course I had heard about it, but I don't trust the commentariat.

This is the interesting bit attributed to Lenihan as a quotation: ""If I have one act of contrition -- I should not have interfered with the VAT rates. It was a mistake and the wrong thing to do. We have lost €700m in revenue going to the North."

If he uttered those sentences consecutively, then it might suggest that he sees the VAT increase as triggering cross-border shopping (I am wary of quotations from unscripted speeches at private events). If he believes that the VAT increase made any significant difference, then he should be condemned as an idiot. It put prices here up by about 0.4%, probably less as many traders absorbed the cost. People have been claiming that they get price differentials of the order of 30-50% in NI. The VAT change was a drop in the ocean. If it had not been imposed, do you think all that cross-border shopping would have been averted?

Raiser

Sleepy wrote: »

Didn't I read in the Sunday Business Post that he's now appointed a respected economist as an advisor?

Sorry, don't have time to dig out the article. Seems like a step in the right direction though why the Department of Finance don't have people capable of advising the minister on economic matters is a bit of a mystery to me...

That's just not good enough; lets stop accepting this kind of thing as satisfactory

- The fact is that a Transition Student from any school in the Country could be our Finance Minister if all they were required to do was:

Firstly:

Make mistakes borne of innocence, stupidity and being totally unsuited for and incapable of holding the position.

Then later on in a state of wild-eyed panic and utter desperation:

Hire a "respected Economist" at enormous expense so they could do their job for them.

Why not just give the "respected Economist" the job in the first place - then we'd be €700 million + Brian "Gobdaw" Lenihans annual wage better off and we wouldn't have to listen to him parrot back to us basic economic advice that every other Country has a qualified person taking care of.

Again; only in fcuking Ireland - can we not get anything right? Ever?

- And again - why does nobody ever have to resign? Why? Hows bad is too bad? How much is enough?

P. Breathnach

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

no citation
that's what google is for :P

It is customary, and useful, that when somebody here makes a claim about something, that they back it up with citations. This might be done on their own initiative, or in response to a request.

I am happy that Darsad recognises this convention.

ejmaztec

So, which economic adviser is he using since he sacked Robert Mugabe?

Sleepy

Raiser, I don't disagree. We shouldn't have someone in charge of the public finances who's not a respected economist.

Unfortunately, we're not in a position to restructure our government because turkeys don't vote for christmas.

CJhaughey

Sleepy wrote: »

Raiser, I don't disagree. We shouldn't have someone in charge of the public finances who's not a respected economist.

Unfortunately, we're not in a position to restructure our government because turkeys don't vote for christmas.

AFAIK the only person qualified for the job is Richard Bruton. I believe that he is an Economist by profession.
I am not saying that FG should rule, merely that out of all the politicians he is the only economist.
The others seem to be lawyers, barristers and other parasites professionals.

dave-higgz

Raiser wrote: »

The fact is that a Transition Student from any school in the Country could be our Finance Minister

I'm a transition year student!!!! :rolleyes: :pac: :cool:


€200k+ sounds about right!



No seriously though, Maybe I'm being overconfident but hell I don't think I'd do a worse job than Lenihan. I am the most respected politically minded person / economist in my year. I'd be happy earning less than 50k a year to serve my country and I wouldn't need no state car. Dublin Bus works fine for me!

P. Breathnach

P. Breathnach wrote: »

...If he uttered those sentences consecutively, then it might suggest that he sees the VAT increase as triggering cross-border shopping (I am wary of quotations from unscripted speeches at private events)...

Jimmy Guerin is on Liveline now: he says that he did not take notes at the dinner.

Without stronger evidence, I do not think that it is established that Lenihan links the increase in VAT with the level of cross-border shopping.

JonathanAnon

ejmaztec wrote: »

So, which economic adviser is he using since he sacked Robert Mugabe?

LOL, even Mugabe would have told him that raising the VAT rate was a bad idea.

ejmaztec

JonathanAnon wrote: »

LOL, even Mugabe would have told him that raising the VAT rate was a bad idea.

I think that their association came to an end when Robert advised him to get rid of all the white farmers.

sceptre

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

no citation
that's what google is for :P

Worth reading the forum charter with regard to citations or basic referencing. It's also (in general) best practice, polite and fair to other people. Completely reasonable to ask for them.

</side comment>

turgon

dave-higgz wrote: »

No seriously though, Maybe I'm being overconfident but hell I don't think I'd do a worse job than Lenihan. I am the most respected politically minded person / economist in my year.

Well Mr Lenihin might also be able to claim he is the most able economist among his peers, but considering his peers are FF'ers that would probably giving himself a lot less credit than you give yourself

Dannyboy83

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0315/brutonr.html

Ireland in economic grave


[URL="javascript:showPlayer('brutonr_av.html')"] [/URL] Sunday, 15 March 2009
Fine Gael's finance spokesperson has warned Ireland is in a very grave financial situation.
Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Richard Bruton said the Government has to face up to reality.
He said while the world-wide economic recession is the main force behind the current situation here, the Government was totally unprepared for it and the impact has been far greater on Ireland than on any other European country.
Advertisement

However, Mr Bruton said it should be used as an opportunity to push through reforms and to totally reinvent Ireland.

Mr.Bruton reckons we are all knackered.
I'm not sure why I even read these reports anymore.

We'll have the rename the provences to Jones, Bonham, Plant & Paige and start a bit of devil worshipping.

Johnboy Mac

RobFowl wrote: »

At least he admits his mistakes. I'll grudgingly give him some respect for that

Not good enough, paying you respects for the 350,000 + umployed would be more like it!

nesf

Sleepy wrote: »

Sorry, don't have time to dig out the article. Seems like a step in the right direction though why the Department of Finance don't have people capable of advising the minister on economic matters is a bit of a mystery to me...

It's essentially a union problem. They oppose specialist grades, someone with a PhD in macroeconomics who would obviously be useful in the Department would be paid the same as anyone else which is problematic because why go to the trouble and expense of a PhD when they'd get the same pay as someone with only a degree? There are similar problems for IT people if I recall correctly.

Gareth Fitzgerald wrote an opinion piece on it a few months back in the Irish Times. The Department apparently has to borrow economists from the Central Bank and elsewhere to run models for them. Which is a terrible way to do things if you ask me.

stepbar

As far as I can see the increase in VAT was an easy mechanism on the Govs part to increase Tax. The opposite happened as people just went up the north to buy goods. More and more as the days go by, I think we should opt out of the euro and join the Sterling currency. Our economies are so intertwined that it would make sence on one level but perhaps on another level not so much (thinking about Iceland here).