Wales v Ireland (pre/during/post thread)

Serenity Now!

Who gives a stuff what Waz Gatland, any Welsh staff/player or any journalist has to say anyway? The amount of players who actually read the midweek-bored-press-corps blurbs you could probably count on one hand.

Boy, some of you lot have thin skin.

Persiancowboy

Gatland is like a bride who has been jilted at the altar - he will never really get over the manner in which he was removed from the Irish job and will therefore always possess a bit of extra bile when it comes to playing against us. I suspect that his comments said more about his views of Ireland than neccessarily his players. his comments were also designed to deflect attention from his self-confessed cock-up in terms of selection and tactics against Italy last weekend.

THe debate here (and elsewhere) about the Flannery/Best selection issue has become completely tiresome. While there are very distinct differences in style between Stringer and o'Leary and between Darcy and Wallace, the same cannot be said for the two hookers. THe game has moved on from the O'Sullivan era whereby the only way you could be dropped from his team was through paralysis or (even worse) if you made any neagative comments to the media.

Kidney is operating a squad and we all need to get used to the idea of selection rotation and some players only playing for a portion of each game. I have no doubt Best will replace Flannery at some stage on Saturday as i'm sure will Stringer for O'Leary.

One other point which is worth making (it will probably be treated with derision in many quarters but i'll make it anyway) - the Munster lads will not be a bit phased by Saturday's atmosphere - if anything it will spur them on. They have lots of experience of playing in the Millennium on big occasions and if they look arounf and see a sea of red well they will feel right at home!!!

More seriously, Saturday requires a big game from o'Gara. THis is a stadium he knows well and should feel at home in. His form has not been the Mae West this year but he could put all that behind him on Saturday with a good game, particularly the accuracy of his tactical kicking. The Welsh possess some of the most dangerous counterattackers in the 6N so he (and Kearney) will need to be spot on in terms of their kicking from hand.

We have the squad, the talent, experience and stamina to do the business on Saturday. I've been there for Munster's victories (and their defeat) so here's hoping that Saturday evening in Cardiff is yet another new chapter in Irish rugby's success.

juvenal

On a side note, I hope Kidney and the Irish camp request that the roof be open.

IMO rugby, or any field sports for that matter, should never be played indoors, irrespective of the elements outside. I've no problem with the roof being closed all week to protect the pitch and facilitate the groundskeepers' work, but it should be required to be opened at least 30 minutes or an hour before kick-off.

Both Munster's HEC finals were under a closed roof, and while it generates a great atmosphere and more noise due to the acoustics, it takes from the natural outdoor element of the game. It will be interesting to see if it crops up in the media beforehand like it did with Martin Johnson and England.

Webbs

anonymous_joe wrote: »

And also, Gatland fúcked up majorly in the Italy game, and the loss to France has been made embarrassing by the debacle at Twickenham on Sunday, meaning suddenly Gatland's messianical status is turning to one of egotistical moron. How fickle is sports? But he has this opportunity to have another triumphant season.


I'd happily have Johnson coach us if he looked a decent coach. (Oh God, I feel dirty having typed that. I might just rediscover religion and peg it down to a confessional...)

Gatland was always a bit of a díck, but so was Eddie, but then, what does that matter? It's success that counts afterall. I mean, right now, there are things Kidney does which I don't like, but hey, we've improved, so I can cope with it.

To be a good coach (and player) you need arrogance - how you show that is different from person to person. Kidney has yet to be under pressure in the 6nations as a coach so will reserve judgement on how he is in the years to come.
Gatland wants to instill a sense of steel to the welsh play and make them feel that they can beat anyone, some of this he airs publicly, but I am sure that it is no different to what Kidney is saying to the Irish players.

As to the loss to France being embarrassing, don't really get what you are saying? Wales lost in Paris to what is widely considered Frances best performance bar NZ in the WC for a good few years, France were then beyond appalling in their next game as only the French can do.
Against Italy he has admitted that he went to far in changing so many, but he has a good idea of where some of the fringe players are for the next season etc.
If Ireland had been in Wales position then I think that you would have seen Kidney make a fair few changes for a game against Italy.

RuggieBear

juvenal wrote: »

. It will be interesting to see if it crops up in the media beforehand like it did with Martin Johnson and England.

The management discussed it for a few minutes the other day according to les kiss on the ruggamatrix podcast. they've passed on their preferences to the irfu to liaise with the wru

Persiancowboy

juvenal wrote: »

On a side note, I hope Kidney and the Irish camp request that the roof be open.

IMO rugby, or any field sports for that matter, should never be played indoors, irrespective of the elements outside. I've no problem with the roof being closed all week to protect the pitch and facilitate the groundskeepers' work, but it should be required to be opened at least 30 minutes or an hour before kick-off.

Both Munster's HEC finals were under a closed roof, and while it generates a great atmosphere and more noise due to the acoustics, it takes from the natural outdoor element of the game. It will be interesting to see if it crops up in the media beforehand like it did with Martin Johnson and England.

Agreed, particularly if the weather stays as pleasant as it is right now. Another side effect of the Cardiff roof being closed is that both the ball and the pitch surface become very slippy due to the high level of condensation that builds up inside the stadium. Alot of the players at last year's Heineken Cup final were very quickly slipping and sliding all over the place. The roof should be kept open.

juvenal

Apparently under Six Nations Tournament rules, the roof can only be closed if both teams agree to it. The only way that decision can be overruled is "in the event of a forecast of significantly inclement weather."

gosplan

Persiancowboy wrote: »

One other point which is worth making (it will probably be treated with derision in many quarters but i'll make it anyway) - the Munster lads will not be a bit phased by Saturday's atmosphere - if anything it will spur them on. They have lots of experience of playing in the Millennium on big occasions and if they look arounf and see a sea of red well they will feel right at home!!!

Indeed, saw some of their records in the Millennium Stadium. Think the worst is won 4 lost 2. Wallace afaik has never lost there.

On another note, I think this Irish team have a big big performance in them and it's due. While Kidney has added the mental element, I think most people could agree that we actually saw better rugby performances under EOS, sadly they were jumbled in with the odd clanger that usually cost us dearly.

Apart from the France game, I don't think we've played especially brilliantly during this six nations. I just think that this team has the wherewithal to be ahead on the scoreboard when the 80 minutes are up.

It would be a truly beautiful thing if after years of the big day being a let-down, this team were to deliver their performance of the year on the weekend.

nacho libre

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Who gives a stuff what Waz Gatland, any Welsh staff/player or any journalist has to say anyway? The amount of players who actually read the midweek-bored-press-corps blurbs you could probably count on one hand.

Boy, some of you lot have thin skin.

I'm not thin skinned. i just think he is being petty. he was sacked unfairly from the Irish job in my view but get over it already. He has had success with Wales and Wasp so there is no need for this chip on his shoulder and enimity towards the irish team.

DJ Hafez

Any competitions to win tickets to the game with flights and everything? there were a few last week on 2fm and that, haven't heard too much this week!

funky penguin

AARRRRRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Its only wednesday!

I'm going crazy with excitement!

subfreq

I don't think that the midweek talk ever impacts the actual game but the Welsh are certainly going hard from all quarters. Both players and several coaches are getting the boot in.

So far Ireland wont be drawn in and it's been well managed.

As far as the game is concerned I am most nervous about Flanner's throwing for some reason. Logical or not I just can't get it out of my mind. Best was on the spot at every lineout last weekend and it was so crucial in a tight game.

patmac

There are about 20 lads from Ballinasloe plus Noel himself heading to Cardiff as a tribute to a famous try 20 years ago, gutted I couldn't make it myself. More of the same please:

bonnieprince

I hope Declan Kidney ignores all Gatland's nonsense and does his talking on the pitch. Munster love the Millenium Stadium so hopefully this will be passed on to the rest of the team. Mike Philips has a lousy temperament so hopefully Ferris and Wallace will encourage him to lose the rag

Come on Ireland, we are all with ye!!! Eireann Abu.

bonnieprince

Mannion....What a legend! that put a big smile on my face cheers patmac.:D

Otacon

subfreq wrote: »

As far as the game is concerned I am most nervous about Flanner's throwing for some reason. Logical or not I just can't get it out of my mind. Best was on the spot at every lineout last weekend and it was so crucial in a tight game.

I really can't understand this.

For a start, Scotland didn't seem to be contesting our lineout for most of the first half so the throws just had to be straight. Second, Fla's throwing has been exemplary so far this Championship.

If you felt that Fla is a weaker scrummager, I could understand, but I can't see how you can legitimately question his throwing.

My €0.02

thebman

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Agreed, particularly if the weather stays as pleasant as it is right now. Another side effect of the Cardiff roof being closed is that both the ball and the pitch surface become very slippy due to the high level of condensation that builds up inside the stadium. Alot of the players at last year's Heineken Cup final were very quickly slipping and sliding all over the place. The roof should be kept open.

I imagine playing in a closed space also takes more out of the players. I'd always want it open, rain or no rain TBH but that's just me.

Eoin

Otacon wrote: »

For a start, Scotland didn't seem to be contesting our lineout for most of the first half so the throws just had to be straight.

Actually, I did think that some of Best's throws seemed to be quite low. I was surprised that they didn't seem to be competing too much for them. I may be proven wrong in replays, but it didn't seem like O'Connell was getting in front of their #2 that often, so I was surprised that they didn't pick any off.

subfreq

It's probably just because he got his first one wrong after Best was on the spot all game. I know it's illogical but I can't get it out of my head!!

spoon

subfreq wrote: »

It's probably just because he got his first one wrong after Best was on the spot all game. I know it's illogical but I can't get it out of my head!!

I don't think that was Flan's fault, for some reason, whenever ever a hooker comes on Ireland stupidly call for it straight to the tail. Which is a tough introduction for a hooker. Best had the exact same problems when he came on for Flan in previous games.
I think Falnnery has deserved his inclusion in the first 15 for this game, i feel he offers more ball carrying options than Best. However they seem to be very evenly matched.

Eoin

spoon wrote: »

I think Falnnery has deserved his inclusion in the first 15 for this game, i feel he offers more ball carrying options than Best. However they seem to be very evenly matched.

It must have been a very tight choice, and not really pushed one way or the other. But I don't think Best is given credit for his ball carrying - he seemed to do a good bit last weekend. He has also shown some excellent soft hands in the offload as well.

chupacabra

I am going to say good luck to both teams on saturday, i hope Ireland win but more importantly i hope it is a great and engaging game of rugby for all the countless "casuals" that will undoubtedly be watching on satuday.

JJ

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd happily have Johnson coach us if he looked a decent coach. (Oh God, I feel dirty having typed that. I might just rediscover religion and peg it down to a confessional...)

Bite your tongue young man! You must now say 150 Our Lineouts and 250 Hail Scrums as your penance and we will not hear such blasphemy repeated here ever again! :mad:

I now obsolve you in the name of the BOD and of the ROG and of P.O.C. Amen.

Stev_o

Im only worried about Wales getting a early 13 or so more points and us having to chase a very big margin for the win as this team hasn't exactly shown (or been in the situation) where they have had to a chase a game.

Eoin

Stev_o wrote: »

Im only worried about Wales getting a early 13 or so more points and us having to chase a very big margin for the win as this team hasn't exactly shown (or been in the situation) where they have had to a chase a game.

Apparently last weekend was the first time in many games that we won after trailing at half-time.

Stev_o

eoin wrote: »

Apparently last weekend was the first time in many games that we won after trailing at half-time.

Yes but not by a huge margin im worried that we concede the 13 points difference early on and we have to chase the game.

Sangre

Stev_o wrote: »

Yes but not by a huge margin im worried that we concede the 13 points difference early on and we have to chase the game.

I'd be worried if we don't down 13 points ever. Very worried. I think any team would!

anonymous_joe

Webbs wrote: »

To be a good coach (and player) you need arrogance - how you show that is different from person to person. Kidney has yet to be under pressure in the 6nations as a coach so will reserve judgement on how he is in the years to come.
Gatland wants to instill a sense of steel to the welsh play and make them feel that they can beat anyone, some of this he airs publicly, but I am sure that it is no different to what Kidney is saying to the Irish players.

As to the loss to France being embarrassing, don't really get what you are saying? Wales lost in Paris to what is widely considered Frances best performance bar NZ in the WC for a good few years, France were then beyond appalling in their next game as only the French can do.
Against Italy he has admitted that he went to far in changing so many, but he has a good idea of where some of the fringe players are for the next season etc.
If Ireland had been in Wales position then I think that you would have seen Kidney make a fair few changes for a game against Italy.

Arrogance is absolutely crucial methinks alright.

And about France, I mean it's less impressive when you see how England smashed them.

JJ wrote: »

Bite your tongue young man! You must now say 150 Our Lineouts and 250 Hail Scrums as your penance and we will not hear such blasphemy repeated here ever again! :mad:

I now obsolve you in the name of the BOD and of the ROG and of P.O.C. Amen.

But the point remains - a manager doesn't need to be likeable - merely successful.

stephen_n

subfreq wrote: »

As far as the game is concerned I am most nervous about Flanner's throwing for some reason. Logical or not I just can't get it out of my mind. Best was on the spot at every lineout last weekend and it was so crucial in a tight game.

Think that first throw against Scotland is the only one he has missed in 4 games so wouldn't be huge concern to me! Don't think either of them starting would make much difference but I still think Flannery is better in the loose

Stev_o wrote: »

Yes but not by a huge margin im worried that we concede the 13 points difference early on and we have to chase the game.

What makes you think we would cough up 13 points without reply since our defence has been one of the best in the 6N if not the best??

conf101

When it comes to Flan vs. Best I think it's pretty close. In all matches whoever has started has had accurate throwing and whoever came on has had slightly dodgy throwing. People were criticising Best's throwing on here before the Scotland match and now they're criticising Flannery's. They're both great throwers lads, but whoever starts usually comes off looking better!