is fianna fail right for me

ukraine_orange

I know how the OP feels. I'm 18 and liberal, but I can't align myself to a particular party.

Perhaps I should just move to Norway or something.

jmayo

ukraine_orange wrote: »

I know how the OP feels. I'm 18 and liberal, but I can't align myself to a particular party.

Perhaps I should just move to Norway or something.

if you are liberl in the eocnomic sense then you better stay the hell away from Scandanavian countries.
They would be based on a socialist model where state takes high taxes, but gives very good services in return.
Note I say very good services in return

Of course some in ireland would like to model our country on them.
The only scary thing with this is we would get the taking high taxes bit right, but we would the other side of the equation ar**ways in the extreme :rolleyes:

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

if you are liberl in the eocnomic sense then you better stay the hell away from Scandanavian countries.

I assume he's using liberal in the American sense. Bloody Americans and their misuse of common political terms.

jmayo wrote: »

They would be based on a socialist model where state takes high taxes, but gives very good services in return.

The Scandinavian model has the whole cradle to grave approach to social welfare. It works fine so long as you've enough young workers paying tax. There's going to have to be some major reworking of the system over the next two decades.

ukraine_orange

I was talking about political liberalism. I support pro-choice, same-sex marriage (and adoption regardless of sexual orientation) etc.

My opinion on economics isn't well formed, so I'm not sure where I stand. I quite like Scandinavia's economics because they do it right and services throughout those countries (not just urban areas) are top notch/very good.

Bringing it in here though would be a disaster, IMO.

Disease Ridden

I have to say, I wonder is there a such thing these days as a teenager who isnt liberal in the political sense!!

nesf

Disease Ridden wrote: »

I have to say, I wonder is there a such thing these days as a teenager who isnt liberal in the political sense!!

I've met a couple, they're a strange sort..

Though I've seen the point that a younger generation isn't less bigoted than their parents, they're just bigots about different issues.

Permabear

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Lockstep

donegalfella wrote: »

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I've met a surprising amount. They are definetely out there but political teens are rare enough.

Dannyboy83

nesf wrote: »

The Scandinavian model has the whole cradle to grave approach to social welfare. It works fine so long as you've enough young workers paying tax. There's going to have to be some major reworking of the system over the next two decades.

But not if they import migrants from EE, right?

nesf

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

But not if they import migrants from EE, right?

Hah, yeah that's a good way to fix structural problems in your welfare system.

elshambo

joe freethinker wrote: »

I'm 16 and want to be involved in politics I'm liberal on personal freedom issues like same sex marrage and I was thinking about Labour but I'm very capitalist
I heard FF are going to sit with the european liberal party after the EU elections
Will this mean a shift to the left for FF
Is there a more suitable party for me?

Your getting into politics for the wrong reason if you have to ask if a party is suitable for you on a forum! imo

Then again most politicians 'nowadays' are in it for the wrong reason
so i look forward to shouting abuse at you in the future when your FF boss and have the typical FF boss "im clueless, have no particular views, but sur haaa sur what;) yerself" look on your face!:eek:

ooh ya as far as being a politician:
Anyone who isnt a socialist in there teans
has no heart
Anyone who isnt a capitalist in there 30's
has no head

Lockstep

elshambo wrote: »

Your getting into politics for the wrong reason if you have to ask if a party is suitable for you on a forum! imo

I'd disagree with you here. When starting out in politics it's always a good idea to scout around and look at which party you broadly fit into and work from there, you'll get a much better insight into other parties from within one if you've half a brain.


Noone always toes the party line (my liberal views on free speech and things like prostitution clash with most of Labour Youth) but you can usually find a party which will accomodate you well enough. Although keep in mind chances are ideologies which have no real party in Ireland like fascism or libertarianism.

walrusgumble

The_Minister wrote: »

TBH, I've always been strongly against people joing parties at 14, 15, 16.
Most of the people who do never get to experience any other belief system, and tend to be indoctrinated into their particular party.

Most of the people I know who joined that young (normally because their parents were in the party; Fianna Fail and the Labour Party in particular), tend to be almost brainwashed - they can give you a few pre-prepared lines, or quotes from Eamon Gilmore or Brian Cowan, but the second you challenge their beliefs or prove them a nonsense, they go to pieces.

I'd advise anyone at the age of 16, who is thinking of joining a party, to wait.
Your political beliefs and your view of the world will change immesurably if you let them grow and mature as you learn more of the world; there is nothing to be gained by stunting yourself, by joining a side that will do its best to make you a loyal follower.

no doubt, as you get older, your ideals change. maybe you get more converstative when ya get older or more liberal? it depends as many said above.


you may wish to become active too in the future. so dont get bogged down with one party. at this point in life, you might even start jumping ship for various reasons. last thing you would want is your creditibilty to go in tatters when, it is found/remembered what parties you had association with in your past. while one is entitled to change membership etc, one may have hassle trying to get their point across, when in debates as often seen in many mediums, irrelevant issues are used against you.

when you read profies of local politicans and see one or two have being a member of different and sometimes varied political parties than pete doherty had hot dinners, could one (unless they tell you what they have, had and still stand for, bearing in mind reality of the powers of local government) actaully take them serious?

Tech3

donegalfella wrote: »

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Where would the policies of the socalist party differ to the policies of the Labour party? I would be more left wing on economic issues but a little conservative on social issues?

Lockstep

tech2 wrote: »

Where would the policies of the socalist party differ to the policies of the Labour party? I would be more left wing on economic issues but a little conservative on social issues?

Socialists advocate a dramatic shift to socialism.

Labour follows more of a social democratic bent, essentially using capitalism to fund the welfare state and regulating the economy.

turgon

Tech2, have you done the www.politicalcompass.org test? It gives comparisons then to what major Irish parties you might be aligned to.

Tech3

turgon wrote: »

Tech2, have you done the www.politicalcompass.org test? It gives comparisons then to what major Irish parties you might be aligned to.

yep, this is how I fared.

joe freethinker

Disease Ridden wrote: »

I have to say, I wonder is there a such thing these days as a teenager who isnt liberal in the political sense!!

I'm a teen and it's unbelieveable how consevative some of us are
Not me I'm liberal
I'm very impressed with the scandanavian model with the top notch services. High taxes would be fine if health and education were free(really free)

Het-Field

joe freethinker wrote: »

I'm a teen and it's unbelieveable how consevative some of us are
Not me I'm liberal
I'm very impressed with the scandanavian model with the top notch services. High taxes would be fine if health and education were free(really free)

Then your a left leaning social democrat. If you like Scandanavia, then you cant be a liberal. Economically anyway

Iwasfrozen

WoW, even I didn't think I was that left wing.

Look at these two charts, as you will see my Political Stance is no where near that of Labour, yet I support them, why I here you say ?
Looking at this chart I should be a Socilist member and yes I do have alot in common with the socilists but how would I ever get the chance to get my point across if I joined the Socilist party ?
Simply you will not find a party with the exact same ideals as you and often when it comes to politics you will simply have to swallow your pride and sttle with a party that you don't always agree with you on ever matter.

Permabear

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Iwasfrozen

lol, and here is a prime example of an extremist who fits into no party.

Permabear

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Iwasfrozen

well, yes extremist in this case is Archo-neo-liberalism.
Anyone on the far right is extremist as is anyone on the far left. Even though I'm not far of the far left myself.

Soldie

Mine:



Just who am I supposed to vote for in the next elections?!

Cronus333

Soldie wrote: »

Mine:



Just who am I supposed to vote for in the next elections?!

Almost my exact result!

A strategic vote against the government?

Permabear

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jmayo

donegalfella wrote: »

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Ah that's what they all said until they were water boarded and had to listen to Barney for 16 hours a day

Permabear

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ascanbe

kickoutthejams wrote: »

I'd say that attitude prevails in most youth wings, especially in college. So few studnets want to be seen as political that many political societies have to try and balance appearing cool with getting stuff done.

I'm no fan of Fianna Fáil but I do some great people in it

.

:eek: