Mini Budget effecting child benefit!!!?

Baby75

Iago wrote: »

well you posted a question on a bulletin board, did you only want people who agreed with you to respond?

I disagree with your premise that life doesn't work by thinking about how you will afford x,y or z if the worst happens, and I don't need to know you to make a point about people in general not being better prepared for when bad things happen. You've decided to react emotionally to a logical discussion, I'm sorry for that but it doesn't change any of the points I made. Again I emphasise it's not about you in particular, it's a comment in general that just happens to be in a thread you started.

I'm not going to go out of my way to antagonise you, but neither am I going to avoid posting in threads because you say so. If you don't want people to comment on what you have to say, then don't post it on a bulletin board.

post away in any thread I post in Ive no problem there at all:), I dont mind any one disagreeing with me at all. you did a little more than that though.
dont assume you know what way I live my life
Im not getting in to a disagreement with you either so we will agree to disagree and move on.

Baby75

Thaedydal wrote: »

Iago I suggest you read the charter for this forum.

Parents are entitled to come here and rant and post emotively.
This is is not the economics or the politics forum.

The facts are that many people have faced wage cuts or loosing their jobs
and the child benefit helps them make ends meet esp as the cost of living
has been rocketing over the last few years that no one could planed for.

Thank you

di11on

No harm in the Early Child Care Supplement and/or Children's Allowance being means tested so the super rich don't qualify while those who really need it, still get it. I suppose where you draw the line is the issue. But I do think it's a bit silly that everyone gets it regardless of need.

bobbbb

di11on wrote: »

No harm in the Early Child Care Supplement and/or Children's Allowance being means tested so the super rich don't qualify while those who really need it, still get it. I suppose where you draw the line is the issue. But I do think it's a bit silly that everyone gets it regardless of need.

IMO nobody should get childrens allowance or early child support. Why should they get it?

Having kids is part of life and is entirely down to each couple to decide if they want kids or not. They should not be attacked because they have decided to have kids, but just because theyhave them shouldnt mean they get to sponge in their kids names either.

Baby75

bobbbb wrote: »

IMO nobody should get childrens allowance or early child support. Why should they get it? (what do you mean:))

Having kids is part of life and is entirely down to each couple to decide if they want kids or not. They should not be attacked because they have decided to have kids, but just because theyhave them shouldnt mean they get to sponge in their kids names either.

I had my childern because I wanted them as did my husband ,not for any other reason.:)

Ludo

bobbbb wrote: »

IMO nobody should get childrens allowance or early child support. Why should they get it?

Having kids is part of life and is entirely down to each couple to decide if they want kids or not. They should not be attacked because they have decided to have kids, but just because theyhave them shouldnt mean they get to sponge in their kids names either.

I assume the state should contribute nothing towards education either then. Full fee paying education for everyone. If you can't afford it, tough. I assume your parents paid for your education so as not to drain the state coffers and you will also if you have a child.

When this thread started, I was wondering who would be the first to come out with the statements you did. Someone always does.

Nevyn

It is in the states intrest for people to have children.
We do not have tax breaks for having children like in other countries but we do have
a small payment to help families so that their children grow up to be tax payers.

bobbbb

Ludo wrote: »

I assume the state should contribute nothing towards education either then. Full fee paying education for everyone. If you can't afford it, tough. I assume your parents paid for your education so as not to drain the state coffers and you will also if you have a child.

When this thread started, I was wondering who would be the first to come out with the statements you did. Someone always does.

I have 1 daughter and another on the way. We chose to have them and bring them up in Ireland and are very willing to pay for their education and not sponge off the state. If the state needed us to give it up, we would gladly do it.

Education should remain free to those who cant afford it.
ie. it should be means tested. If you are working you pay your own way. Tax breaks for those earning enough to provide for their children already are a waste of tax payers money. Simple as that.

Do you think that just because you have a child, you should get money for free?

Please dont tell me that anyone here thinks people only have children for the childrens allowance. If there was no childrens allowance, people would still be having children.

Ludo

Ya know...I actually agree with your main points. I guess it is your use of the word sponging that I object to. If you considering taking childrens allowance sponging then why do you do it.

bobbbb

Ludo wrote: »

Ya know...I actually agree with your main points. I guess it is your use of the word sponging that I object to. If you considering taking childrens allowance sponging then why do you do it.

It is sponging if its money you could do without. And if you can afford the internet and holidays and so on, you can do without it. Its those people who have no disposable income at all who this money should be given too - more of it even.

Yes, i take it now. At the moment its all going into an account for the kids. I dont touch it. I wouldnt miss it if it went and i wouldnt feel like i was owed it either. But as Enda Kenny says. I'll give it up when we all do - and we should.

Ludo

bobbbb wrote: »

It is sponging if its money you could do without. And if you can afford the internet and holidays and so on, you can do without it. Its those people who have no disposable income at all who this money should be given too - more of it even. Yes, i take it now. At the moment its all going into an account for the kids. I dont touch it. I wouldnt miss it if it went and i wouldnt feel like i wa owed it either. But as Enda Kenny says. I'll give it up when we all do - and we should.

So give it to Bernardos or someone if you don't want it and object to it so strongly.

bobbbb

Ludo wrote: »

So give it to Bernardos or someone if you don't want it and object to it so strongly.

Tell you what. If the government cut child benefits then i'll give that much out of it (its everything we received for the last 4 years) to Bernardos, if you join me and donate half of what i donate. Then everyone wins. Especially Bernardos. We can get boards to set up a fund for this and between us we should have well over €10k in it. Perhaps others here could donate too. If you agree, we can get cracking on this now even, but only if you're wiling to do it with me. Lets put our money where our mouths are and do some good. Deal?

Ludo

bobbbb wrote: »

Lets put our money where our mouths are and do some good. Deal?

Well you are the one who needs to put your money where your mouth is not me. You came onto this thread calling everyone who gets childrens allowance spongers...yet you get it and accept it yourself...there is a word for that kind of behaviour...

bobbbb

Ludo wrote: »

Well you are the one who needs to put your money where your mouth is not me. You came onto this thread calling everyone who gets childrens allowance spongers...yet you get it and accept it yourself...there is a word for that kind of behaviour...

Come on, Dont avoid the subject. You and i together have a chance to make what we got from childrens allowance, go to a good cause. If you're in, then im in. We'll do it together and hopefully get others to donate too. I'll keep none of mine and you can keep half of yours.

Nevyn

Not every one wants to do that or are in position to be able to afford to that.
You can't not expect people to divulge thier circumstances just because you have.

luckat

Thread's been dragged off topic, as often happens.

My own take: the rumours about people pretending to live in Ireland so they could claim child benefit for children in less wealthy countries have probably sparked this plan.

Whether this happens to any great extent - who knows? I doubt it.

The solution (I think) is for all countries to get together to try to level out wealth so it's not to anyone's advantage to take work from one country to another. Will this happen?

(checks under floor for signs of Hell freezing over)

Doubt it.

Ludo

bobbbb wrote: »

Come on, Dont avoid the subject. You and i together have a chance to make what we got from childrens allowance, go to a good cause. If you're in, then im in. We'll do it together and hopefully get others to donate too. I'll keep none of mine and you can keep half of yours.

You just don't see your own hypocrisy do you...ah well. Carry on insulting everyone else who does exactly what you do. I have had my say with you and won't be feeding you anymore.

luckat wrote: »

Thread's been dragged off topic, as often happens.

Ah not really...it's a conversation...they sometimes veer off slightly which is life...we are still talking about childrens allowance stuff.

I can fully understand the OPs opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it though as I think everyone is going to have to take a hit in the coming budget and rightfully so. I think childrens allowance will be hit as will everything else as it HAS to be.
Lots of people are going to be annoyed when they themselves are hit in the pocket (just look at the public service workers) but they are just going to have to get over it and do their best to make ends meet somehow.
The only thing that would make me take "action" is if the budget it totally unfair and takes only from certain sections of society and not everyone or if they bring in some absolutely stupid new tax like a primary residential property tax....**** that...I'll be right there with the OP burning down the dail if they do that.

Baby75

Ludo wrote: »

You just don't see your own hypocrisy do you...ah well. Carry on insulting everyone else who does exactly what you do. I have had my say with you and won't be feeding you anymore.


Ah not really...it's a conversation...they sometimes veer off slightly which is life...we are still talking about childrens allowance stuff.

I can fully understand the OPs opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it though as I think everyone is going to have to take a hit in the coming budget and rightfully so. I think childrens allowance will be hit as will everything else as it HAS to be.
Lots of people are going to be annoyed when they themselves are hit in the pocket (just look at the public service workers) but they are just going to have to get over it and do their best to make ends meet somehow.
The only thing that would make me take "action" is if the budget it totally unfair and takes only from certain sections of society and not everyone or if they bring in some absolutely stupid new tax like a primary residential property tax....**** that...I'll be right there with the OP burning down the dail if they do that.

Now were talking LOL

paul_white

I think the goverment messed up with this whole "early childcare supplement" its really annoying and i think they should scrap it and start again because the whole purpose of it was to help families towards childcare costs while they were out at work but yet they give it to families who are unemployed who clearly would not (or definatley should not) be availing of the use of childcare facilities while they sit at home even if they are looking for a job I thin it should only be granted to people who are in full time employment and maybe give half rate to people on part time. Thats my opinion

manafana

thats news to me makes no sense to give it to people who arnt in work?

serenity13

more than 20 million is going to children living abroad each year.
in some eastern european countries their child benefit is means tested. ireland make up the rest of their payment (say if they entitled to 10 euros a month - if anything at all- per child ireland would give 156 etc).
only downfall for applicants is it takes up to 2 years for applications to be approved (then they receive a gigantic arrears cheque -also includes early childcare supplement). at least fraud checks are now taking place since lots of people have left ireland (this payment can go to a bank account so im sure a lot of ppl got it when left the country).

wonder if France does this kind payment to families abroad, i shall research that...

but think given the circumstances the country is in now, the government should be looking after the inhabitants LIVING in ireland (whether they be Irish or Non-Nationals). afterall 165 is a huge amount in eastern europe so it is probably more worthwhile for a parent not to work there at all to qualify for the full child benefit rate here.

Also, bit off the point, but giving 204.30 jobseekers ALLOWANCE to an 18 year old who lives at home, never worked before with no contributions and has no expense is a bit much (talking about those who live with parents who get rent allowance and full social welfare payments themselves). the same amount is given to a person who has worked all there lives. something unjust there. government should follow the UKs lead and reduce it (think its around 70 a week or something). afterall if i was 18 now and lived at home, didnt have to pay rent, the main thing id spend 204.30 a week on would be a social life!

Ickle Magoo

paul_white wrote: »

I think the goverment messed up with this whole "early childcare supplement" its really annoying and i think they should scrap it and start again because the whole purpose of it was to help families towards childcare costs while they were out at work but yet they give it to families who are unemployed who clearly would not (or definatley should not) be availing of the use of childcare facilities while they sit at home even if they are looking for a job I thin it should only be granted to people who are in full time employment and maybe give half rate to people on part time. Thats my opinion

The government can't possibly only pay a contribution towards childcare for people who are in full-time employment, it would be grossly unfair on those families who have already forgone one wage so they could have one parent stay at home. You would get into the murky waters of stay at home parents being unable to afford to send a child/one of their children to a playschool or pre-school while rewarding those who already have two wages coming in by making it easier for them to do so. I can't see any government making a parent who stays home with their child worse off in benefits than a household with wages/multiple wages.

It would also be impossible to get a job without being able to know if/when/where your kids were being looked after while you worked. I think the only fair method is to means test all benefits, that includes child benefit & childcare supplements, etc. If people don't need them, they won't get them.

neantog

Social Welfare allowances and services should not be allowed to be degraded in any way, shape, or form.

The Government is obstensibly trying to balance the budget to allow the State to function normally for the duration of this recession.

Balancing the budget is a normal part of a functional economy. But we don't have a normal functional economy any more - It is disfunctional and becoming more so with every passing day.

The damage to the economy was inflicted by a small clique of wealthy and powerful bankers, developers, and politicians.

Those wealthy people should be forced to pay for the enormous damage they have caused to the State's finances, without any cuts being implemented.

Working people did not create this mess and should not be landed with the responsibility for sorting it out.

The very fact that this government is putting the burden on the backs of the workers indicates where their loyalties lie - with their cronies in the banks and big business.

This is, by no means, a government of the people.

I wonder will this government be able to achieve any workable balancing of the budget, or is the Irish State headed for bankruptcy ?

I have little or no faith in this government to achieve anything worthwhile.

How much effective governing has this government achieved since this crisis broke ?

Not much that I've noticed - We've had non-stop panic, and lies, from a bunch of people who don't seem to understand what they are dealing with, and are constantly reacting with surprise to the latest bad economic statistics.

If this government successfully implements the various cuts, and increased taxes, without a major fightback from the people, then they and their banker cronies will have perpretated a major con on the population at large.

happy09

Finally Budget 2009 is out and what we got here???

Early Childcare Supplement monthly payment to be halved to €41.50 per child with effect from 1 May 2009 and abolished at end-2009. It will be replaced in January 2010 with a pre-school Early Childhood and Education Scheme (ECCE) for all children between the ages of 3 years 3 months and 4 years 6 months. A capitation grant will be payable to service providers who provide free pre-school services.

There is a Facebook group protesting against Unfriendly Child Benefit. Join it here.

More info you can get at Dublin Mama Blog

John Mason

happy09 wrote: »

There is a Facebook group protesting against Unfriendly Child Benefit. Join it here.

More info you can get at Dublin Mama Blog

why are against it

it going to create a lot of jobs and stop a lot of facilities closing down?

its actually a really good idea, i think the Government should be applauded for this.

The ELB was just a bonus received in boom times did you really think they were going keep

happy09

I guess there are always 2 sides of the story. For someone this cut will mean a lot, for someone not really...

shelly.m

Iago wrote: »

of course it's not but it should always be a consideration. I'm not on a high horse at all to be honest, although I can see how the post could be construed that way. I just find it bizarre that a lot of people seem to be so badly affected by such small changes.

I know that's not the case for the op as her partner has also lost his job which would put undue pressure on anyone.

but for anyone who fnds that losing such a small amount every week (i.e. €10 off child benefit or €20-€50 off salary) puts you on the breadline then there's something wrong with how you've planned out your life. (although to be fair that has nothing to do with parenting and everything to do with economics, so probably more suitable there)

obviously you have no worries about money and its very unfair to be having a go at the people (like me) who were not born with a silver spoon to set them up for life:mad:

cashew

Just wanted to clarify the protest group - it is actually "Protest Against Child Unfriendly Budget" and it's main concern is the announcement in the supplementary budget that they are going to means test or tax child benefit in the budget in December. We are a group of concerned parents who have got together to say "Leave child benefit alone". That money is for our children, the government have no right to take it away from them! Please log on to www.childbenefit.info to sign the online petition today!

Kashkai

I recently gave up working as the cost of childcare for our 4 kids per month was more than I earned each month plus a chunk of my wife's salary as well so as ridiculous as it sounds, we are better off with me at home as a full time house husband/father than if I continued to work. The elimination of the childcare supplement has only further entrenched this position as it would now cost us even more to place our kids in a creche when the supplement is gone.

The "pre school" supplement idea is a kneejerk reaction aimed at reducing the ire of parents at the loss of the childcare supplement that is a rushed, badly thought out idea. We checked 3 local creches/montesorries and 2 of them hadn't a clue about it. The other one said that they would be taking names for places under the new scheme and told us what it would cost per month. Thing is, a neighbour of ours has their kids in that particular creche and when we told them what the proposed charges would be, she said that that price we were quoted was approx €40 more per child per week than she was currently paying so I guess this creche is bumping up their prices to absorb whatever supplement the government will give - Rip off Ireland is alive and well.

Kashkai

And while I'm on the subject, my sister in law was up from Mayo for our daughter's communion 2 weeks ago and was ranting about the proposed cuts in the childcare supplement and possibly the monthly chilcare benefit payment as well.

She has 8 kids ranging from 12 down to 2 and gets approx €2,000 a month in benefit payments alone. She is a stay at home mother, her husband has a well paid job as an engineer, they don't have a mortgage, they have 3 other houses rented out and some land as well so they are hardly on the breadline. However, she was fuming at the thought that the government might means test the monthly benefit payment as that would definitely affect her payment when her husband's income, their lack of mortgage, and investment property/land were taken into account.

Now while I actually like the woman, I thought it was a bit rich (excuse the pun) of her to be complaining like that as she is very well off compared to most others who are just managing to cling on these days. Jeez, we are down to one salary with a sky high mortgage, 4 kids, no social life whatsoever but we just get on with it like 99% of the rest of the people in this country. Oh and in case you are thinking "but the poor woman has 8 kids to mind", 4 of them are in school from 9 - 3pm. 3 others go to a creche from 9 - 2 and that leaves her with a baby of 2 years of age. However she has a woman who comes in to do her cleaning, ironing and makes the dinner 5 days a week (she pays her out of the childcare benefit). She also minds the baby when the sister in law goes to get her hair done each week. Hardly has it tough eh??? Perhaps means testing to direct childcare benefit towards those who actually need it as opposed to a blanket payment to everyone (incl the well off who hardly need it except to pay for luxuries) might not be such a bad idea after all.