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Today's Fed Decision

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Interesting projections :pac:. If Chrysler or/and GM liquidate, those unemployment numbers could explode. On the Case-Shiller composite projection, I have a figure of 19.1% drop from Q4: '07 to Q4: '08, the "more adverse" figure is quite high at 22%.

    Looking at it from a different slant , if you look at the S&P a classic bear market bottom will be P/E ratios and dividend yields meeting at anywhere from 6 to 10 , the current P/E ratio is in the 50's and dividend yields are less then 3 , I cant imagine seeing any real bottom for some time then it will take another year or 2 for any meaningful recovery that would feed through to reducing unemployment.
    Anyone looking for a serious turn in 2010 hasnt looked at their history books. My big question is are they actively distorting the numbers to buy time or are they stuck in some kind of bubble?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    Could they make that turnaround any more acute?
    Aye, I'm curious as to which component of GDP they're expecting to pick up the slack. Government will only last for so long. (Here's the latest real GDP figures for Q4: '08.)
    silverharp wrote: »
    Looking at it from a different slant , if you look at the S&P a classic bear market bottom will be P/E ratios and dividend yields meeting at anywhere from 6 to 10 , the current P/E ratio is in the 50's and dividend yields are less then 3 , I cant imagine seeing any real bottom for some time then it will take another year or 2 for any meaningful recovery that would feed through to reducing unemployment.
    Anyone looking for a serious turn in 2010 hasnt looked at their history books. My big question is are they actively distorting the numbers to buy time or are they stuck in some kind of bubble?
    The hypothesis seems to be that investors are pricing in recovery for Q3 this year. Kinda like those people clinging to the idea of a great recovery in BoI and AIB shares... May 4th the results of the stress tests are out. No one believes the unemployment figures from the coverage I was watching yesterday and it will be interesting if any of the 19 'fail' the not-so-stressful stress test. Of course, they could just lie considering that it's being done in house...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    the coverage I was watching yesterday and it will be interesting if any of the 19 'fail' the not-so-stressful stress test. Of course, they could just lie considering that it's being done in house...

    I heard some chatter that they might have a sacrificial lamb like State Street Corp. but will say the rest are ok , I dont think it matters, they have had no credability so far so unless they that most will be in bad shape over the coming years then by definition they ar sugaring the pill

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    silverharp wrote: »
    I heard some chatter that they might have a sacrificial lamb like State Street Corp. but will say the rest are ok , I dont think it matters, they have had no credability so far so unless they that most will be in bad shape over the coming years then by definition they ar sugaring the pill
    From the WSJ, the list of banks:

    J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.
    Citigroup
    Bank of America Corp.
    Wells Fargo & Co.
    Goldman Sachs Group
    Morgan Stanley
    MetLife
    PNC Financial Services Group
    US Bancorp
    Bank of NY Mellon Corp.
    SunTrust Banks Inc.
    State Street Corp.
    Capital One Financial Corp.
    BB&T Corp.
    Regions Financial Corp.
    American Express Co.
    Fifth Third Bancorp
    Keycorp
    GMAC LLC

    I would guess that Amex would be on shaky ground after 10% unemployment. Even the Fed is taking losses lately, I read something about Maiden Lane II writing down some of the AIG MBS. Treasury indemnifies the Fed against any losses, but I wonder what would happen in the ECB's case vis-à-vis the ~€700bn in ABS.

    On the point of unnecessary optimism, the front page of The Economist: A Glimmer of Hope? The World Economy and the Perils of Optimism. (Link.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    We're not back to the November spike of ~250 from that spread, but the Fed is trying hard to keep the 10Y below 3%.


    It seems like the Fed is the only buyer of US bonds. If this keeps up its going to throw a monkey wrench into the mortgage market

    78866.jpg

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    Just from looking at their recent SOMA purchases, the Fed has already hit around $75bn of Treasuries out of the $300bn they were planning to buy. The March 30Y auction came out with a yield of 3.6%, private demand wasn't too low. If Bernanke et al. decide to go shopping on the 30Y to the same extent as the 10Y, I wonder what that will mean for September onwards when the Fed ends its current QE policy. Debt issuance isn't going to level off concurrently. I'd hope that a cycle of printing, just to keep mortgage rates down, doesn't become a view of Congress.

    The latest line from the FOMC on inflation:
    In light of increasing economic slack here and abroad, the Committee expects that inflation will remain subdued. Moreover, the Committee sees some risk that inflation could persist for a time below rates that best foster economic growth and price stability in the longer term.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    , I wonder what that will mean for September onwards when the Fed ends its current QE policy. Debt issuance isn't going to level off concurrently. I'd hope that a cycle of printing, just to keep mortgage rates down, doesn't become a view of Congress.

    It will be a difficult environment , at the moment corporate bonds are doing very well and the general markets, by Sep I'd expect more of the credit nasties, so if money flows back into gov. bonds it would be at the expense of the general economy. Maybe they' will start buying corporate debt :eek:

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    silverharp wrote: »
    It will be a difficult environment , at the moment corporate bonds are doing very well and the general markets, by Sep I'd expect more of the credit nasties, so if money flows back into gov. bonds it would be at the expense of the general economy. Maybe they' will start buying corporate debt :eek:
    I don't know how they could justify micro-level credit allocation of that order. Sure, I guess it's only a hop, skip and a jump from their previous purchases of GSE discount notes..:pac: TALF is, in part, an attempt to help small business borrowings, but distinct as a lending programme rather than a purchase programme. But, hey, there's no more credit risk in holding Treasuries than McDonalds' debt, judging by CDS spreads a few months ago :D

    I just read this, on the subject of crowding out by Krugman, and thought you might get a kick out of the logic. Consumers are saving too much to achieve full employment, ergo government borrowing is justified and it won't crowd out the private sector at implied interest rates...

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/02/liquidity-preference-loanable-funds-and-niall-ferguson-wonkish/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I don't know how they could justify micro-level credit allocation of that order. Sure, I guess it's only a hop, skip and a jump from their previous purchases of GSE discount notes..:pac: TALF is, in part, an attempt to help small business borrowings, but distinct as a lending programme rather than a purchase programme.

    Your right , I think the trend is clear though , rising rates at the longer end of the curve and continued deflation. From the Fed's point of view if almost all asset classes are falling then they simply wont be able to get the credit out the door.


    [/QUOTE]
    Now, there are real problems with large-scale government borrowing — mainly, the effect on the government debt burden. I don’t want to minimize those problems; some countries, such as Ireland, are being forced into fiscal contraction even in the face of severe recession. But the fact remains that our current problem is, in effect, a problem of excess worldwide savings, looking for someplace to go.[/QUOTE]

    I've never bought into this concept, its akin to trying to heat your house by putting a lighter against the thermometer. How someone could talk in terms of excess savings when by one measure there is $30T of excess debt in the US not backed by asset values is beyond me.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    The 10Y note jumped today :pac:. Are you watching the stress test results, Silverharp? $75bn needed for 10 banks.

    Overview of the results.

    BoA needs $34bn, I would have thought Amex and Citi would have faired worse under the more adverse scenario. They need to run this again with realistic unemployment projections. 23.5% losses on total credit card amounts outstanding is shocking, especially at such low unemployment projections.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Hmm, not one bank failed.

    My right eyebrow could not be raised any higher.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    10 banks need more capital under the adverse scenario.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    Yeah, I just have heard some arguments about how The Fed really couldn't come out and say a bank had failed (the insolvency test), given the catastrophic effect that would have.

    Just taking the news with a pinch of sodium.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    The 10Y note jumped today :pac:. Are you watching the stress test results, Silverharp? $75bn needed for 10 banks.


    not allowed watch Bloomberg at the moment, yep thats a big move in a day. Listening to Benny the other night expecting the US economy to turn up later in the year. lol



    67681176.jpg

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    Well, no one failed in the sense that all of the 19 BHCs had the 4% minimum tier 1 capital ratio under the adverse scenario for '09 and 2010. The problem is that The Fed/Treasury/FDIC want a figure of at least 6% tier 1 capital ratio, with 4% tier 1 common capital ratio. I'm not entirely sure where that's going to leave Citi and BoA :confused:.

    Bloomberg is good, wholesome family viewing...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    Well, no one failed in the sense that all of the 19 BHCs had the 4% minimum tier 1 capital ratio under the adverse scenario for '09 and 2010. The problem is that The Fed/Treasury/FDIC want a figure of at least 6% tier 1 capital ratio, with 4% tier 1 common capital ratio. I'm not entirely sure where that's going to leave Citi and BoA :confused:.

    Bloomberg is good, wholesome family viewing...

    I think that, after reading a karl whelan article I remember that Irish banks are supposed to have 8% tier one capital. What makes the American banks less risky ie need a lower rate of tier one capital?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    Heterogeneous implementation of Basel I (and for those who have implemented II) accords.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    Heterogeneous implementation of Basel I (and for those who have implemented II) accords.
    I think you are saying the difference is because we promised to keep it at 8% in the Basel accords.
    But it doesnt explain why the US stress tests are still underestimating risk and allowing such high levels of leveredge (I dont expect anyone to be able to answer this its more a retorical question/observation)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    eamonnm79 wrote: »
    I think you are saying the difference is because we promised to keep it at 8% in the Basel accords.
    But it doesnt explain why the US stress tests are still underestimating risk and allowing such high levels of leveredge (I dont expect anyone to be able to answer this its more a retorical question/observation)

    The US numbers are lower than what would be ideal but the time to change capital requirements is when the market is healthy enough to provide the extra capital needed not when the market won't do it and the State has to come up with the cash.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    this youtube video is doing the rounds today


    Rep. Alan Grayson asks the Federal Reserve Inspector General about the trillions of dollars lent or spent by the Federal Reserve and where it went, and the trillions of off balance sheet obligations. Inspector General Elizabeth Coleman responds that the IG does not know and is not tracking where this money is.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    poor Ben is having problems managing the bond market

    102swa.jpg


    good to see Mankiw is scraching his head

    http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2009/05/yield-curve-is-steep.html

    This graph shows the difference between the 10-year and 2-year yields on Treasuries. In general, a steep yield curve--that is, a high value of this variable--is a positive indicator of future economic growth. In many ways, however, this is an unusual downturn, so it is not entirely clear to what extent historical relationships are a useful guide going forward.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    Aye, U.S. 30 year fixed mortgage rates look set to go over 5% soon.

    http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/release.html?week=22&year=2009&display=release

    One consistent set of complaints is that the Fed is random with its treasury purchases, there's no real plan for implementing QE and they're nowhere to be found when there's a lot of issuance, like the 7 year yesterday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Aye, U.S. 30 year fixed mortgage rates look set to go over 5% soon.

    http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/release.html?week=22&year=2009&display=release

    One consistent set of complaints is that the Fed is random with its treasury purchases, there's no real plan for implementing QE and they're nowhere to be found when there's a lot of issuance, like the 7 year yesterday.

    one explanation and its only a guess is that they only intervene when they have a chance of success , if they feel that the intervention would fail they are better leaving things alone.
    there will be gurgling sound in the mortgage market if they cant cap rates. It is still my longer term assertion that they will fail

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    First it looked as though they would defend the 10 year at 3%, then 3.3% and now people are questioning if it goes to 4%. Someone from the Fed is saying that their goal was never to set rates with the purchase of Agency-backed MBS and Treasuries... Wasn't this one of Ben B's 'green shoots'?

    Jaysus, that GDP revision is dismal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    First it looked as though they would defend the 10 year at 3%, then 3.3% and now people are questioning if it goes to 4%. Someone from the Fed is saying that their goal was never to set rates with the purchase of Agency-backed MBS and Treasuries... Wasn't this one of Ben B's 'green shoots'?

    here is what they said in March.
    http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/monetary/20090318a.htm

    To provide greater support to mortgage lending and housing markets, the Committee decided today to increase the size of the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet further by purchasing up to an additional $750 billion of agency mortgage-backed securities, bringing its total purchases of these securities to up to $1.25 trillion this year, and to increase its purchases of agency debt this year by up to $100 billion to a total of up to $200 billion. Moreover, to help improve conditions in private credit markets, the Committee decided to purchase up to $300 billion of longer-term Treasury securities over the next six months.




    As its Friday

    benr.jpg

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    silverharp wrote: »
    I've never bought into this concept, its akin to trying to heat your house by putting a lighter against the thermometer. How someone could talk in terms of excess savings when by one measure there is $30T of excess debt in the US not backed by asset values is beyond me.
    Just on this earlier piece by Krugman, Niall Ferguson responds in light of rising Treasury yields, link.
    silverharp wrote: »
    here is what they said in March.
    http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/monetary/20090318a.htm

    To provide greater support to mortgage lending and housing markets, the Committee decided today to increase the size of the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet further by purchasing up to an additional $750 billion of agency mortgage-backed securities, bringing its total purchases of these securities to up to $1.25 trillion this year, and to increase its purchases of agency debt this year by up to $100 billion to a total of up to $200 billion. Moreover, to help improve conditions in private credit markets, the Committee decided to purchase up to $300 billion of longer-term Treasury securities over the next six months.
    Aye, but I remember when Bernanke was asked for specifics on the 'green shoots' he mentioned low mortgage rates and an increase in the ability to refinance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,612 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    good article , It will be interesting to see if Krugman amends his views going forward. Fergusons 70's v 30's argument was interesting, I guess time will tell who's right on that one. I'd say enough time hasnt passed yet , the recent hubris in the markets is eerily like April 1930

    [/QUOTE]
    "I made the point that “the running of massive fiscal deficits in excess of 12 per cent of gross domestic product this year, and the issuance therefore of vast quantities of freshly-minted bonds” was likely to push long-term interest rates up, at a time when the Federal Reserve aims at keeping them down. I predicted a “painful tug-of-war between our monetary policy and our fiscal policy, as the markets realise just what a vast quantity of bonds are going to have to be absorbed by the financial system this year”.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with that, its probably debatable over time if its purely new bonds or just a general reduction of time preference by Bond holders. In as much as I have analysed past credit contractions I'd advise anyone to only hold 4-6 year bonds as there is price risk beyond that and no return closer in, a fulcrum in the curve as it were.



    [/QUOTE]
    No doubt there are powerful deflationary headwinds blowing in the other direction today. There is surplus capacity in world manufacturing. But the price of key commodities has surged since February. Monetary expansion in the US, where M2 is growing at an annual rate of 9 per cent, well above its post-1960 average, seems likely to lead to inflation if not this year, then next. In the words of the Chinese central bank’s latest quarterly report”.[/QUOTE]

    I'm still going for the deflation call on this one , I just think the private deflation trumps the Fed's ability to inflate. Niall is looking at a very short term rebound in commodities, there is no evidence yet to say this is the start of a new trend. For now I'd expect the commodities to rollover during the summer.

    [/QUOTE=Économiste Monétaire]
    but I remember when Bernanke was asked for specifics on the 'green shoots' he mentioned low mortgage rates and an increase in the ability to refinance.[/QUOTE]

    I'm sure its key in Ben's head to keep the rates low , but it looks like they have just had their bluff called by the market. The Fed has never been able to manage the long end of the curve over time , it seems to be policy on the fly.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    THE HORROR, Bond traders are white with terror


    What's happening in bond land? The latest US govt bond auction was for $110 billion. Two years ago the average monthly bond auction total was $5 billion, $10 billion, numbers like that. The US govt finances its debt with bonds. A $2 trillion deficit means $2 trillion in new bonds needs to be issued. Approx. $200 billion a month.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    silverharp wrote: »
    good article , It will be interesting to see if Krugman amends his views going forward. Fergusons 70's v 30's argument was interesting, I guess time will tell who's right on that one. I'd say enough time hasnt passed yet , the recent hubris in the markets is eerily like April 1930
    "I made the point that “the running of massive fiscal deficits in excess of 12 per cent of gross domestic product this year, and the issuance therefore of vast quantities of freshly-minted bonds” was likely to push long-term interest rates up, at a time when the Federal Reserve aims at keeping them down. I predicted a “painful tug-of-war between our monetary policy and our fiscal policy, as the markets realise just what a vast quantity of bonds are going to have to be absorbed by the financial system this year”.
    I agree with that, its probably debatable over time if its purely new bonds or just a general reduction of time preference by Bond holders. In as much as I have analysed past credit contractions I'd advise anyone to only hold 4-6 year bonds as there is price risk beyond that and no return closer in, a fulcrum in the curve as it were.


    No doubt there are powerful deflationary headwinds blowing in the other direction today. There is surplus capacity in world manufacturing. But the price of key commodities has surged since February. Monetary expansion in the US, where M2 is growing at an annual rate of 9 per cent, well above its post-1960 average, seems likely to lead to inflation if not this year, then next. In the words of the Chinese central bank’s latest quarterly report”.
    I'm still going for the deflation call on this one , I just think the private deflation trumps the Fed's ability to inflate. Niall is looking at a very short term rebound in commodities, there is no evidence yet to say this is the start of a new trend. For now I'd expect the commodities to rollover during the summer.
    but I remember when Bernanke was asked for specifics on the 'green shoots' he mentioned low mortgage rates and an increase in the ability to refinance.

    I'm sure its key in Ben's head to keep the rates low , but it looks like they have just had their bluff called by the market. The Fed has never been able to manage the long end of the curve over time , it seems to be policy on the fly.
    The commodities rise and the drop in the dollar index over the week, gold was back in the high 960-80s, silver up sharply too, seemed to emanate from a fear over inflation. But, I get the view that consumer's won't borrow all the excess reserves to fuel (monetary) inflation, personal income and outlays release on Monday will probably show in favour of your secular deleveraging. Both arguments are appealing. The oil rise could just be an overreaction to the EIA petroleum status numbers.

    Some people are viewing the increase in oil as one of the 'green shoots' along with the strong consumer confidence & sentiment indexes; existing home sales, durable goods orders, and weekly jobless claims being better than expected and Dollar LIBOR levelling out at .65%. That GDP number was still horrible, yet reaction seemed pretty mute. I can see why there's optimism, but when people are optimistic with 625k jobless claims there's error in just calling a max, ergo recovery. The inflation fear might show for indirect bids at the next 30 year auction. The Fed still has about $200bn in Treasuries left to buy.

    The Euro Area looks pretty weak with the 0% inflation flash estimate, Euribor isn't going where the ECB would like:
    euriborspread.jpg

    If U.S. mortgage rates keep going up the only solution I've heard being discussed is to wipe out a proportion of the principal.


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