College fees are possibly in.

El Che

Fad wrote: »

Can you link me to a source about the 90,000,000 figure please, and a newspaper article will not suffice, an actual report please.

I'd say if they dropped funding to private schools, it'd end up costing the government money. I also notice that I've never heard a politician suggest that cut (Someone might have though, just never heard it).

This is NOT an invite for a debate about private schools in general, I just struggle to understand where you're coming from/believe your figure is a bit inflated for effect;

My figures come from various submissions from the opposition parties of Labour, Sinn Fein, and Fine Gael.
That figure comes from a speech by Senator Pearse Doherty of Sinn Fein, text of the speech is here http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/37364 and also quoted from the Irish Times here http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1201/1227910420330.html

sock puppet

El Che wrote: »

Public students don't benefit from their money. Private schools should be able to support themselves through their fees, if not then like any other business, they should fail. Its called "the free market".

Aren't private schools charities?

edit: I also fail to see how it's a free market when down the road there's a school letting in kids for free.

Fad

El Che wrote: »

My figures come from various submissions from the opposition parties of Labour, Sinn Fein, and Fine Gael.
That figure comes from a speech by Senator Pearse Doherty of Sinn Fein, text of the speech is here http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/37364 and also quoted from the Irish Times here http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1201/1227910420330.html

Would like to see the actual report.....

Alright- 1450 x 63361(Max basic pay)= €91,873,450

Now I highly doubt there'd be nearly that amount on the max scale, considering you'd have to be a teacher for 26 years (I think) to get to that level.

I could be a little off, but I doubt its completely far off tbh.

amacachi

SligoBrewer wrote: »

:rolleyes:
I hear the Minister for Finance doesn't bother to read crucial financial reports by PriceWaterhouse Coopers which he asked to be written. Your being very ambitious if you think that he'll bother to listen to the ordinary person on the street so.

Never mind the Minister for Finance, I'm talking about the wider government. Target the Greens, once the Greens turn on FF there'll be a fresh election.

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Lads, ye in Leaving Cert now have to fight this thing. It is complete bullsiht to say that marching doesn't work - look at what marching did for the medical card issue

Got voting turnout figures for OAPs and students? I think that's the key difference.

Apparently the idea is to not start charging us in college now (there are legal difficulties, as legally we have a contract with the college for the length of our degree), but to start charging YOU secondary school students. Even tho I prob won't have to pay, this is blatantly unfair and I promise I'm doing everything in college now to reverse this decision (if it is made official) - that included nearly get arrested by occupying the UCC Presidents office

Ugh, this "contract" bullshit. I've been in college, I don't remember receiving a copy of this "contract".:rolleyes:

El Che

sock puppet wrote: »

Aren't private schools charities?

edit: I also fail to see how it's a free market when down the road there's a school letting in kids for free.

They exist to make a profit, someone is benefiting from them, otherwise they wouldn't exist.

SligoBrewer

amacachi wrote: »

Never mind the Minister for Finance, I'm talking about the wider government. Target the Greens, once the Greens turn on FF there'll be a fresh election.

The Greens have sold out. They're as bad as the PDs and they soon will go the same way as the PDs too. All this bull**** they fed about keeping an eye on Fianna Failure. They have taken the medical cards on the chin and the education cuts too. Despite the education cuts widely causing a rift in the Green grassroots. Meh. The Greens have been shown up as the trendy left who have no real beliefs or ideals.

I was also using the above example to point out how little the Government actually knows/wants to know about the situation in hand. They (this includes the Greens btw) couldn't care less about those on the poverty line. They don't know how much strain their cuts will cause among the working classes when a 3 or higher percentage levy on the rich in society would be much more beneficial for society as a whole

xOxSinéadxOx

they can go **** themselves if they think I'm going to be paying them a percentage of my income when I graduate, they're probably going to raise income tax as well.

EMIGRATION FTW!

HQvhs

El Che wrote: »

They exist to make a profit, someone is benefiting from them, otherwise they wouldn't exist.

That may be true in the case of some schools, such as the Institute. But the majority of private schools in the country are run by religious organisations and, surprisingly, exist to provide a quality education to people of that particular denomination.
Asking that people pay for their private education is working along the same lines as asking people to pay for Third Level education, something only a privileged few receive, which I assume you are trying to argue against?
And for the record I go to a free public school.

xOxSin&#233 wrote: »

they can go **** themselves if they think I'm going to be paying them a percentage of my income when I graduate, they're probably going to raise income tax as well.

EMIGRATION FTW!

Why would you not be willing to pay for your education after you receive it? Surely a major reason for going to college is to allow yourself to receive better job opportunities, and therefore more pay when you go out to work.
As you are the primary beneficiary of the college education it would only be fair that you pay *some* money towards it.
Contributing 30% after you've graduated and found a job is a very fair compromise in my opinion, especially with the abolition of registration fees that everyone, irrespective of income, pays on entering college.

SligoBrewer

HQvhs wrote: »

Why would you not be willing to pay for your education after you receive it? Surely a major reason for going to college is to allow yourself to receive better job opportunities, and therefore more pay when you go out to work.
As you are the primary beneficiary of the college education it would only be fair that you pay *some* money towards it.
Contributing 30% after you've graduated and found a job is a very fair compromise in my opinion, especially with the abolition of registration fees that everyone, irrespective of income, pays on entering college.

How much money do we pay back to the exchequer once we get our degrees anyways? Our increased income will all go back to Government in the form of VAT, PRSI, Stamp Duty etc etc.

A university degree will soon become the norm, and society will flourish do to the educated nature of it's people. We are a small nation, where it is entirely possible to get 75% of people degrees. Can you imagine what we could achieve with such an educated workforce? I can. And you should see that the cost of a basic third level degree should be taken on the Government.

Taxation should be paid by those who can afford it, not by those who can't. End of.

Delta Kilo

God this thread is going down an all too familiar line!

To add my two cents, I think we need to cause major disruption by any means (marching, throwing eggs at Batty, protesting, whatever it takes). I definitely think that the reason current college students don't have to pay fees is simply to keep them quiet because they are the ones that usually do all the protesting.

How if people just boycotted the fees? It will be interesting to see how they will make us pay them. What if people just refused to pay. What could the colleges do? They would have no first years. The government would have no choice but to reverse the situation. A huge majority would have to participate for this to take effect though!

K4t

Stev_o wrote: »

Down with this sort of thing.


Let's see how long it ll take for the marches to start.

They can march all they want but they won't do the most important thing and vote the shower of bastards out of government.

O'Keefe is a bollix.

SligoBrewer

Delta Kilo wrote: »

God this thread is going down an all too familiar line!

To add my two cents, I think we need to cause major disruption by any means (marching, throwing eggs at Batty, protesting, whatever it takes). I definitely think that the reason current college students don't have to pay fees is simply to keep them quiet because they are the ones that usually do all the protesting.

Agreed comrade.

This post is spot on btw.

This is what I said in the previous thread here

SligoBrewer wrote:

The reintroduction of fees is a massive admission of us taking three steps backward after taking two forward. You value a society by what it can offer you in the chances of achieving your potential and looking after its population. Bringing back fees indicates a step backward in society.
If they reinstate college fees, it will lead to emigration as people see the free fees of Scotland as an alternative. I find it appalling that the government of Scotland cares more about my potential than Cowen & Co.

Fad

K4t wrote: »

O'Keefe is a bollix.

Bring back Mary Hanafin.

SligoBrewer

Fad wrote: »

Bring back Mary Hanafin.

I would.

K4t

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Because the current Leaving Cert year are not in college yet so are being given a warning that if they enter college this September that they do so on the basis that they will be paying fees from 2010 onwards and that is the 'contract' they are entering.

But we have already filled out our CAO forms.

We should be exempt if fees are announced now. This is disgraceful.

K4t

Fad wrote: »

Bring back Mary Hanafin.

Bring back Niamh Bhreathnach

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2008/aug/17/minister-who-abolished-fees-urges-okeeffe-not-to-t/ - she opposes the reintroduction of the third level fees which she abolished in 1996.

dvpower

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

they can go **** themselves if they think I'm going to be paying them a percentage of my income when I graduate, they're probably going to raise income tax as well.

Who are the 'them' that you are refering to?

You seem to have a simplistic view that the money goes straight to the politicians, but it is to the exchequer, the same exchequer that pays directly for your college education.

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

EMIGRATION FTW!

Would you be good enough to consider emigration before we pay out 10s of thousands on your college education.

amacachi

SligoBrewer wrote: »

The Greens have sold out. They're as bad as the PDs and they soon will go the same way as the PDs too. All this bull**** they fed about keeping an eye on Fianna Failure. They have taken the medical cards on the chin and the education cuts too. Despite the education cuts widely causing a rift in the Green grassroots. Meh. The Greens have been shown up as the trendy left who have no real beliefs or ideals.

As I said, get onto them. Around here at least the Greens probably have some of the more accesible members. Let them know they won't get 15grand in expenses a year after the next Local election.

K4t wrote: »

But we have already filled out our CAO forms.

We should be exempt if fees are announced now. This is disgraceful.

How about a refund of the application fee? Would that be fair?

thebigcheese22

amacachi wrote: »

Never mind the Minister for Finance, I'm talking about the wider government. Target the Greens, once the Greens turn on FF there'll be a fresh election.

Ya I'd agree with that, the Greens seem terribly spooked to be so unpopular. Before the last general election they were complaining about education and this government has actually made things worse. The Greens have to pull out of Government soon, otherwise their party faithful know they will be history, like the PD's, if they don't.

amacachi wrote: »

Got voting turnout figures for OAPs and students? I think that's the key difference.

I don't have figures but I'd assume OAP's logically have a higher turnout as they have a lot more time than us students. Its ridiculous the way the Government does all it can to minimise the student vote because they know we would vote for parties with sensible policies and integrity. They held the last election on a Friday when they knew most students would be going home for the weekend. It is this kind of cynical attitude, that you show might I add, that we have to stop, to fight the fees and come out victorious.

Ugh, this "contract" bull****. I've been in college, I don't remember receiving a copy of this "contract".:rolleyes:

Check your acceptance letter mate and the fine print

K4t

amacachi wrote: »

How about a refund of the application fee? Would that be fair?

No, it's a year of my life gone. I could have applied using UCAS and gone to Scotland.

The level of incompetence of this government is just incredible. F**king incredible.

straight_As

The country's fucked.

Simple as.

amacachi

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Ya I'd agree with that, the Greens seem terribly spooked to be so unpopular. Before the last general election they were complaining about education and this government has actually made things worse. The Greens have to pull out of Government soon, otherwise their party faithful know they will be history, like the PD's, if they don't.

It just has to be remembered that the government can do nothing without the Greens' support.

I don't have figures but I'd assume OAP's logically have a higher turnout as they have a lot more time than us students. Its ridiculous the way the Government does all it can to minimise the student vote because they know we would vote for parties with sensible policies and integrity. They held the last election on a Friday when they knew most students would be going home for the weekend. It is this kind of cynical attitude, that you show might I add, that we have to stop, to fight the fees and come out victorious.

Sorry, time is no excuse. If you can't make time or arrangements to vote then ya just don't care enough.

Check your acceptance letter mate and the fine print

Don't have a copy of it. However the "contract" will be with the college, not the government.

thebigcheese22

straight_As wrote: »

The country's fucked.

Simple as.

You can't say that and not offer any solutions :rolleyes:

Thats exactly the kind of stereotypical student apathy that the Government wants to see to get this thing passed.

OctavarIan

K4t wrote: »

But we have already filled out our CAO forms.

We should be exempt if fees are announced now. This is disgraceful.

You're not in college yet though. Plus you have the change of mind option yet to come.

Fad

Mr.S wrote: »

Also, you still pay some fees in Scotland, so its hardly much different :rolleyes:

England and Wales there's fees, but I was told by the people at the UCAS booth at Higher Options, there's NO fees for Scotland.

dragonfly!

This sucks

Fad

K4t wrote: »

Bring back Niamh Bhreathnach

Nah, Mary Hanafin lives near me, next election I'll be voting for her, I dont think Ministers For Ed and Sci are ever really going to be popular in office, but Batt is just a wánker!:pac:

HQvhs

Fad wrote: »

Nah, Mary Hanafin lives near me, next election I'll be voting for her, I dont think Ministers For Ed and Sci are ever really going to be popular in office, but Batt is just a wánker!:pac:

Fantastic! Oppose Batt O'Keeffe and fees by........... voting for Fianna Fail again!
Would you not be better voting in someone who's not a member of the government trying to implement the policies you oppose? Just a thought...

SligoBrewer

amacachi wrote: »

As I said, get onto them. Around here at least the Greens probably have some of the more accesible members. Let them know they won't get 15grand in expenses a year after the next Local election.

Greens = Non-existent in Sligo.

Fad

HQvhs wrote: »

Fantastic! Oppose Batt O'Keeffe and fees by........... voting for Fianna Fail again!
Would you not be better voting in someone who's not a member of the government trying to implement the policies you oppose? Just a thought...

I don't generally oppose Fianna Fail though, just their CURRENT minister for education and what he seems to be pushing. I'm not claiming to be particularly political, but I dont think Fianna Gael really want to be in government because they know bloody well they cant get us out of this mess either. I'm saying either of them are in any way decent.

I'll be happy to pay fees IF an adequate loans system is put in place, so I can stop my parents paying for me.