Mortgage Payment Protection

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Has anybody made a successful claim on their Payment Protection Plan. We have mortgage and PPP with AIB. My OH was laid off, we meet all the criteria (as far as we can tell) but still have not received a penny.

He is complaining tomorrow to Financial Regulator as bank have just fobbed him off over and over.

Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience? Or better!

kaiser sauze

The plan may not have covered redundancy. Which provider was it, and I will tell you if this is the case?

2xj3hplqgsbkym

kaiser sauze wrote: »

The plan may not have covered redundancy. Which provider was it, and I will tell you if this is the case?

It's TWG Services Ltd. It says it covers involuntary unemployment including redundancy.

bobbbb

Major Alive Tuxedo wrote: »

Has anybody made a successful claim on their Payment Protection Plan. We have mortgage and PPP with AIB. My OH was laid off, we meet all the criteria (as far as we can tell) but still have not received a penny.

He is complaining tomorrow to Financial Regulator as bank have just fobbed him off over and over.

Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience? Or better!

I hope you get it, but right now your case has gone to a team who will trawl through it for the slightest reason not to pay out.

Make sure you have read all the small print? and let us know how it goes.

No regulator in Ireland does a tap. Waste of time.

dotsman

The regulator doesn't really deal with complaints. It's The Financial Ombudsman you should direct all complaints to. However, you should follow the bank's own complaint procedures to the fullest extent before passing it on to Joe to follow up.

Anyone familiar with Joe Meade's (and his team's) history will recognise that he is very effective and fair. He publishes a number of case studies every few months on the website to give you an idea of how he has handled previous complaints.

kaiser sauze

Major Alive Tuxedo wrote: »

It's TWG Services Ltd. It says it covers involuntary unemployment including redundancy.

I am not familiar with that firm, but rooted out a contact number of their office in Dublin for you. [You may have it already, but just in case]

They do seem to underwrite lots of differing types of policies [PPI, electrical warranties & 'GAP' cover] and I do see that they claim to cover redundancy. Have you read all the fine print relating to that aspect of the cover? Is there anything in the small print that they could be using to avoid a claim?

You say the bank 'keep fobbing you off', but it's not the bank you should be dealing with, it is TWG!

Have they (TWG) actually declined your claim, or have they not even given you the forms with which to make a claim?

Did you organise this cover direct with TWG, or was it arranged through a broker or your bank? If it was either of the latter two, you should try them first, and then go direct to TWG if you get nowhere.

Fitzwilliam Business Centre
77 Sir John Rogerson's Quay
Dublin 2

Phone (01) 2839836
Fax (01) 6401899

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Thanks for all of the advice.

We got the insurance through the bank and thats why we have been dealing with them, but we have also contacted TWG directly, they always say that the claim is being processed.

He has been dealing with 2 different people in AIB who have 'promised' to have an answer for him by the end of the week, but never have.

The reason they may not pay out is that a few weeks after he was made redundant he was offered a week's work and he took it, this obviously was taxed etc. so he his p45 showed he was working for just one week. Even thogh he explained to them that he had been in his job for over a year and a half and thats the job he was made redundant from.

he complained to Fianncial Ombudsman on Friday (not regulator, my mistake). They were very helpful and said they will be back onto him asap. Will let ye know what happens.

kaiser sauze

Great.

Raiser

bobbbb wrote: »

I hope you get it, but right now your case has gone to a team who will trawl through it for the slightest reason not to pay out.

Make sure you have read all the small print? and let us know how it goes.

No regulator in Ireland does a tap. Waste of time.

I have first hand experience having done a few weeks in the Claims Dept. in a major Insurance operation in Co. Clare.

Payment protection Policies for a Bank - UK Customer base.

- In my opinion customer is allowed to pay their premium year on year on decade and things are rosy.....

...... In the event of a claim it was, again this is only my general and personal opinion, a shrewd game of how can we avoid paying this person using the many intricate terms of the policy as a means to leave them financially ruined as well as being in poor health.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Yes I agree, we are still paying our PP insurance every month for my husbands job even though he doesn't have a job!
we can barely afford the mortgage, never mind the PP insurance, but if we stop paying, I'm sure they will use that as an excuse not to pay out.

I wonder if they refuse to pay out can we get that money back because we are insuring something that doesn't exist, i.e. his job.

Still no word from bank/ insurance company/ Financial Ombudsman.

bobbbb

Major Alive Tuxedo wrote: »

Yes I agree, we are still paying our PP insurance every month for my husbands job even though he doesn't have a job!
we can barely afford the mortgage, never mind the PP insurance, but if we stop paying, I'm sure they will use that as an excuse not to pay out.

I wonder if they refuse to pay out can we get that money back because we are insuring something that doesn't exist, i.e. his job.

Still no word from bank/ insurance company/ Financial Ombudsman.

You wont get payments to an insurance company back.

broker2008

bobbbb wrote: »

You wont get payments to an insurance company back.

You will if they choose to refund premiums rather than pay a claim

bobbbb

broker2008 wrote: »

You will if they choose to refund premiums rather than pay a claim

They wont.
They will just find a reason not to pay your claim if they can.

If they cant then they have to pay.
If they can they wont pay, but wont refund any premiums you have ever paid.

Kipperhell

I have claimed on AIB PPP for my mortgage. It will be at least 60 days before you get your first payment. You have to be signed on for 30 days and then a month will pass then you send in the form and get paid. It does seem to take a long time the first time.

That is assuming you partner has be let go and not fired. There are other clauses for self employed people.

If anybody has personal experience not getting the money I'd be really interested on what grounds they did this. I have seen a few comments as above where people claim they just don't pay out but I suspect most are from people who have no personal experience of doing it. I am about to put a claim in myself so it has relevance.

bobbbb

Kipperhell wrote: »

I have claimed on AIB PPP for my mortgage. It will be at least 60 days before you get your first payment. You have to be signed on for 30 days and then a month will pass then you send in the form and get paid. It does seem to take a long time the first time.

That is assuming you partner has be let go and not fired. There are other clauses for self employed people.

If anybody has personal experience not getting the money I'd be really interested on what grounds they did this. I have seen a few comments as above where people claim they just don't pay out but I suspect most are from people who have no personal experience of doing it. I am about to put a claim in myself so it has relevance.

I used to work in one of the providers. I know first hand what happens when a claim comes in. The first thing they do is send it to a team who will find the least excuse not to pay it. Its even worse with serious illness cover.

Kipperhell

bobbbb wrote: »

I used to work in one of the providers. I know first hand what happens when a claim comes in. The first thing they do is send it to a team who will find the least excuse not to pay it. Its even worse with serious illness cover.

From my experience of working with insurance that is pretty much what they do with many claims. I am really curious about the specifics of why they refuse to pay. There didn't seem to be many clauses that they can refuse on so some specifics would really help people out.

The OP is using AIB PPP which is who I have and this is underwritten by a UK company so they may have different procedures.

OP I found the insurance company easy to deal with once I spoke their language. You should have the P45 from the real job which means you could claim from that employment and then say you were given a temp job of a week. I was able to take a contract and get my payments to restart once the contract finished. The might have you on some clause I must admit. I think if you can prove it was only a fixed weeks work it should help.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

Thanks Kipperhell.
Yes he was let go not fired.
He doesn't have p45 from his real job because he gave this to the employer who was given him a weeks work.

Maybe we should get a letter from that employer to say that he was only offered a weeks work? - it was to cover during builders hols as lots of the Polish employees had gone home for a week.

Kipperhell

You should be able to get a copy of the original P45 and also get a letter stating the weeks work. I would say your best bet is really to focus on LHC rather than the ombudsman. They were very helpful to me. Put everything in writing they will go through e-mail if you ask them. The phone conversations can be denied or misunderstood very easily.

They might have you caught on the weeks work.

Xcellor

I have mortgage protection through Perm TSB, I had to put a claim in since my wife who is on the policy was out of work with a disability for quite a long time. I never experienced any problem as soon as the time period came the payments started. Maybe in these recessionary times where more people are losing jobs its becoming stricter.

Akrasia

I work in the claims department of a PPI insurance company and I deal with Mortgage Protection policies every day (but for the U.K. market)

I can't speak for the particular insurance company the OP was referring to, but where I work we certainly do not refer new claims to a team who look for reasons to decline them. All claim forms are processed by the processing team, all claims that are accepted are paid immediately (if sufficient evidence is there to start the claim) and all claims that are rejected are audited by the underwriters to see if there is any reason why we should be paying rather than rejecting.

We also accept a very large number of unemployement claims over the phone without any paperwork at all.

The terms and conditions are quite simple, the customer must be employed for at least 6 months continously, the customer must be actively seeking work, and they must be unemployed because of Involuntary unemployment (basically, unemployed due to economic circumstances, can not resign or be fired from job)

If the customer is made redundant and then takes up a few weeks or months temporary work, we would assess his/her claim on his/her last full time permanent position.

I also process sickness claims which can be a little bit trickier to get paid, it all depends on whether or not the doctor says the condition is pre existing, but we certainly do not look for reasons to decline these claims, and will always write out to the gp looking for further information if the decision is marginal.

There are some hard cases, and a lot of insurance is mis sold by the banks, but the claims dept here does not seek to decline claims.

Hopefully the OP's insurance company are similar to ourselves.

bobbbb

Akrasia wrote: »

I work in the claims department of a PPI insurance company and I deal with Mortgage Protection policies every day (but for the U.K. market)

I can't speak for the particular insurance company the OP was referring to, but where I work we certainly do not refer new claims to a team who look for reasons to decline them. All claim forms are processed by the processing team, all claims that are accepted are paid immediately (if sufficient evidence is there to start the claim) and all claims that are rejected are audited by the underwriters to see if there is any reason why we should be paying rather than rejecting.

We also accept a very large number of unemployement claims over the phone without any paperwork at all.

The terms and conditions are quite simple, the customer must be employed for at least 6 months continously, the customer must be actively seeking work, and they must be unemployed because of Involuntary unemployment (basically, unemployed due to economic circumstances, can not resign or be fired from job)

If the customer is made redundant and then takes up a few weeks or months temporary work, we would assess his/her claim on his/her last full time permanent position.

I also process sickness claims which can be a little bit trickier to get paid, it all depends on whether or not the doctor says the condition is pre existing, but we certainly do not look for reasons to decline these claims, and will always write out to the gp looking for further information if the decision is marginal.

There are some hard cases, and a lot of insurance is mis sold by the banks, but the claims dept here does not seek to decline claims.

Hopefully the OP's insurance company are similar to ourselves.

Did you ever watch watchdog on the BBC.
Now there is a program where you will learn a lot about insurance claims.

groomek

Can anyone recommend a bank in which to get payment protection with.My own bank which provides my mortgage doest seem to provide this service

Many thanks

Kipperhell

groomek wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a bank in which to get payment protection with.My own bank which provides my mortgage doest seem to provide this service

Many thanks

I found that I couldn't get PPP when I went looking for it as it was only offered on new mortgages. It was only later on that it was offered to me again as opposed to finding a company that did it. I would say it maybe harder to find one now but there are PPP plans that cover only health and not redundancy. Make sure you check which you are getting.

Drumpot

groomek wrote: »

Can anyone recommend a bank in which to get payment protection with.My own bank which provides my mortgage doest seem to provide this service

Many thanks

You can get MPP through Cardiff Pinacle. Most PIBA brokers have access to this product.

I have mixed feelings about selling the product itself, but once a person is clear on the terms and conditions of the product I am quite happy for them to take it up. There are no hard facts to back up the claim that "they look for any reasons not to pay". Of course they dont want to have to pay out claims, but this does not mean that they arent generally fair in their assessments. Insurance companies of any kind make sure that they do a proper assessment of each claim, otherwise the financial ombudsman can be called in.

The terms and conditions of Mortgage Income replacement policies are in some way vague but if you read the terms and conditions carfefully and are happy you do not fall into the category of probable void contracts, there is no reason to assume that the company will not pay out if you need to claim for legitamate reasons.

Cardiff Pinnacle cover offered:


What is Mortgage Repayment Protector?
Mortgage Repayment Protector is an insurance policy that will cover your mortgage repayments if you as a PAYE employee are unable to work and remain so for 30 days or more due to an accident, sickness or from being made redundant. Should you be self-employed or state employed, Mortgage Repayment Protector will cover your mortgage repayments if you are unable to work and remain so for 30 days or more due to accident or sickness or if you are admitted into hospital for 5 consecutive days or more your mortgage repayment will also be covered.
Why do I need Mortgage Repayment Protector?
In the event that you are unable to work for a period of 30 days or more due to illness, an accident, or being made compulsorily redundant, or 5 days or more due to hospitalisation you are entitled to make a claim subject to the terms and conditions of your policy.

How long can I claim for?
An amount equal to your monthly mortgage benefit will be paid after the initial 30 days if you are out of work due to an accident, sickness or you are made redundant (applies to those who are employed Full-time). An amount equal to your monthly benefit will be paid after 5 days of consecutive hospitalisation (applies to those who are Self Employed / State Employed). Thereafter, you will be entitled to an amount equal to the monthly mortgage benefit for each consecutive 30 day period that you remain out of work due to an accident, illness, redundancy or hospitalisation, until a maximum of 12 monthly payments have been made on your behalf for any one claim or you return to work, whichever happens first. The maximum aggregate claim payment is 24 months per claim type i.e. 24 months for Disability (accident and sickness), 24 months for Redundancy and 24 months for Hospitalisation.
How much is my monthly benefit?
This is the amount chosen by you to cover your monthly mortgage repayment under the mortgage, and any other mortgage related costs (insurances, household bills etc), which shall not exceed €2,000 in total. The customer’s monthly mortgage repayment should be rounded up to the nearest €100 to identify the monthly benefit.
e.g. customer's monthly repayment: €798.42
customer's monthly benefit: €800.00
What is the benefit amount if the policy is joint cover?
Both parties to a mortgage can cover themselves under the Mortgage Repayment Protector Plan and can choose how the over is split between them. The two percentages must add up to 100%
e.g. customers' monthly repayment: €798.42
customers' policy benefit: €800.00
each party is insured for: €400.00 each.
How much does it cost?
Mortgage Repayment Protector Plan(MRPP) costs €4.75 per month per €100 covered.
If your monthly repayment was €798.34, the monthly benefit should be rounded up to the nearest €100. It would therefore cost you €4.75 x 8= €38.00 per month to cover 100% of the mortgage repayment. Customers can cover, see above, additional mortgage related costs also.
How much will I get when I claim?
Mortgage Repayment Protector will cover your chosen monthly mortgage payment, up to the maximum of €2,000.

Am I eligible?
To be eligible you need to be at least 18 and less than 65 years of age, have been in full-time,state or self employment immediately prior to the policy start date and have the right to reside, work, and live in Ireland.
Can I apply if I am unemployed?
No, you must have been in full-time employment or have been self-employed immediately prior to the policy start date.
Can I apply if I am out of work sick?
If you are out of work sick you can take the cover out. However, you will not be covered until you return to work and pre-existing exclusions will apply to the illness you have at the time of the commencement of the cover.
Will you require medical evidence if I claim?
Yes, should you be claiming for an accident or sickness we will require information from your Doctor. Your Doctor may charge you for this information.
Will you need to see my medical records if I claim?
Possibly, we employ medical advisors to help assess each claim. If they feel that further information is required, we may need to ask your Doctor to provide more information. If we ask for any additional information from your Doctor then we would pay the costs of getting this.
Are my Claim details confidential?
Ordinarily only our claims staff and medical advisors have access to claim details. We may, however, also be required to share this information for the detection and prevention of fraud.
Do I continue to pay the premium when claiming?
Yes, if you do not pay the monthly premium, then your cover will lapse. Mortgage Repayment Protector allows you to claim more than once; therefore, you will need to continue paying your premiums even if you are currently claiming.
When and who do I need to notify of any claim?
Should you need to make a claim you need to notify Cardif Pinnacle at the earliest opportunity. The completed claims form should be returned to Cardif Pinnacle within 90 days of the claim occurring.

Can I claim more than once?
You may make a further claim for accident or sickness if it is:

• for an unrelated condition if you have returned to work for 1 month;
• for the same or related condition if you have returned to work for 6 months following the previous accident or sickness claim

You may make a further claim for compulsory redundancy as long as you have returned to full-time employment for 6 consecutive months after your initial claim.
What events are not covered?
As with all insurances, there are going to be times when this Mortgage Repayment Protector is unable to cover you. A summary of the main exclusions follows:
Accident or Sickness benefit will not be paid if your accident or sickness results from:

• a self inflicted injury;
• being under the influence of, or being affected by, alcohol or drugs unless prescribed by a doctor;
• any condition of a mental or nervous origin including stress, anxiety or depression, unless the condition is certified by and under the continuing care of a consultant psychiatrist specialist;
• backache or a related condition without supporting medical evidence;
• cosmetic or other elective surgery;
• AIDS or HIV;
• any condition, which you knew about, ought reasonably to have known or received counselling or treatment for in the 12 months immediately prior to the policy start date about, or which arise within 30 days of the policy start date.

Redundancy benefits will not be paid if:

• you were aware at the policy start date that you would be made redundant or you had reason to believe this would occur or if this occurs within the first 60 days (new borrowers) or 120 days (existing borrowers) of the policy start date;
• you were not in full-time employment for at least 6 months immediately before your first claim for unemployment;
• you resigned or accepted voluntary redundancy or unemployment;
• your work was seasonal, casual or temporary, or unemployment is a regular feature of your work;
• it results from any act of misconduct, fraud or dishonesty.

Hospitalisation benefits will not be paid if:

• your hospitalisation results from a consequence of any disability or redundancy exclusions

Akrasia

bobbbb wrote: »

Did you ever watch watchdog on the BBC.
Now there is a program where you will learn a lot about insurance claims.

I watch it occasionally, It's a useful program but very tabloid in content and style.

From dealing with this insurance some of the main problems include

1. Rejected Claims.
Most of this is a direct result of 2 below. people being sold insurance that they would never be able to claim on.
Some are due to unfair terms and conditions (like excluding all back problems or psychological conditions) but these are sometimes necessary because there is an enormous amount of potential for fraud in these claims. (that said, the company I work for has no such exclusions, as long as the condition is not pre existing and there is medical evidence, we will pay out in the vast vast majority of circumstances)
Many people are just chancers and set up insurance with the full intention of claiming later on. This is not the reason for insurance.

2. Mis-sold policies.
By far the biggest issue, and one that has been doubtlessly confounded by the bonus culture in the financial sector. I come across cases regularly where people have been sold insurance for unemployment and sickness when they had been on state incapacity benefit for years before the loan was taken out.
For this, I blame the commission system that allows people to set up insurance policies that they know will never be paid out with little chance of ever being held personally responsible for them.

3. People not knowing about the insurance cover that they have
I come across cases all the time where people have been paying insurance from their credit card or current account for years and they don't know what it is. When they realise they have the insurance they are still eligible to make a claim, but it is much harder to gather the required evidence a few years after the fact (especially for unemployment claims). This is not the usually fault of the insurance companies who usually just underwrite the policies, they often don't sell them or cancel them. It is the customers responsibity to keep track of their own finances.

4. Over enthusiastic Loan Arrears departments
The collections depts of the various banks can be extremely persistant when there is a late payment or a payment issue, even when the issue is a result of an issue that is the fault of the bank. They can harrass the customer with multiple phone calls a day and make nasty threats about affecting their credit rating, reposessing homes, and applying punitive charges. This can happen even when an insurance claim is fully up to date, but the arrears team are not trained in the banks own internal procedures. This is a deliberate policy of the banks to harrass customers in a way that would be illegal if any other company or individual engaged in that kind of behaviour and I think it is awful.

5. lost and delayed claim forms
Paperwork gets lost, misplaced and delayed all the time in a busy office environment. This can cause delays. Sometimes this is avoidable, sometimes it's the fault of postal or telecoms companies, sometimes it's the customers fault for not posting it to the correct address or failing to check which company their insurance is even with. Some of this is the insurance companies fault, some of it is just basic human error (nobody's perfect)

6. Misdirected calls.
Banks are extremely fragmented institutions, there are departments and call centres and offices spread across many continents. Also, banking takeovers, mergers and acquisitions mean insurance policies switch between different companies, or remain with the original company and the call centres don't always have the updated contact details. It can be extremely frustrating for a customer to spend an hour on the phone being transferred amongst different departments and explaining themselves a dozen times. It might seem deliberate. most of the time its just because of poor training and internal inefficiencies.

Doodoo

Drumpot wrote: »

You can get MPP through Cardiff Pinacle. Most PIBA brokers have access to this product.

Any chance of a link to cardiff pinacle in ireland?

Dempo1

Hi All, i am new to this so be patient.

I have Just gone through the process of claiming the above due to redundancy. My Mortgage of over 9 years is through PTSB and i have to say they have been brilliant, i lost my job about 6 months ago and i am currently on interest only payments. Thankfully i have a small mortgage and i am single with no other dependents. Now for the mortgage payment protection Policy. PTSB now use a company called Genworth Financial, whom i had never heard of until they wrote to policy holders last Nov informing us of new changes to schedules on Policies and of course an increase in premium. Changes where to come into effect on the 12th Dec but i was damned sure to get my claim put in and registered prior to this date. Allianz where the initial underwriters on my policy.

My last employer was helpfull with the absurd amount of documentation required including a bizzare stamp from Fas. I also included confirmation from the DETE re the dates i commenced unemployment etc. Genworth duly responded and hit me with a waiting period of 60 days from the date the initial claim forms where stamped by Fas and Social welfare dept (Namely when they sent them). This despite the fact i had clear evidence i have been unemployed for almost 6 months. I have now waited the 60 days, had what they call "Continuing unemployment claim form" stamped by welfare and i registered my returning letter. I will keep everyone updated but fully intend to ride this people if they give me the run around, particularly having paid premiums for almost 9 years now. Incidently, mortgage providers don't normally handle these claims, they pass it on to their insurer's.

Make sure you copy all letters and documents and register any post sent to these companies.

Dempo

Formerscribe

Having similar problems with Genworth. I half expect the next letter back to say sorry we found out you were wearing brown shoes the day you posted the stuff to us so you have to wait another month. I honestly believe they are deliberately delaying now in the hope that next time they send out a continuation form I will have found work again.

Dempo1

My update on Genworth is they finally paid up and i only discovered my claim was approved after they lodged the money into my account, they send out this silly form monthly there after which you have to get stamped and filled out at the social welfare office. My story does however not end here. Due to the delays on having the claim processed, i availed of a 6 month interest only payment period and despite furnishing Genworth with my full mortgage payment, they have only paid the Interest portion, this said, i guess its up to me to return to full payments. complicated i know but my policy states clearly FULL MORTGAGE covered for up to 12 months, Genworth probably think they will get off lightly for the remaining interest only period, about three months. I am writing to my mortgage provider advising a return back to full payments now that my claim has been processed.

irl8

Iv takin out payment protection on a 5000 loan from aib am I waistin my money.don't really understand it

Dempo1

irl8 wrote: »

Iv takin out payment protection on a 5000 loan from aib am I waistin my money.don't really understand it

Absolute waste of your money and your not obliged in law to have such a requirement, I am guessing your friendly local bank branch forced this policy on you. Cancel it immediately and in writing and keep all documentation. It is simply ludicrous to have PP on such a small loan, you could end up paying an additional couple of 100 euro on this loan on top of interest! Madness.