Waterways, Ashtown, D15.

belcarra

Just to throw it out there becuase I feel we are all talking about personal opinions, and everything is subjective, but does anyone have data/links to similar crashes in the past? i.e. How low they fell before stabilising (In percentage terms)? I appreciate this is different than most other crashes in that this is a two fold effect of Irish AND International causes.

So anyways, any kind of graphs based upon similar past circumstances rather than continual opinion and mark downs on every price that gets quoted!!

And no, this isn't a leading question! Open for both sides of the argument to back up their opinion.

shamblertine

You can't compare it to any previous crash as the circumstances are different. But I just can't see how people will think prices will increase or stabilse given that:

-unemployment figures are massive and continuing to rise
-banks unwillingness to give out mortgages
-tax increases due in the budget next week
-widespread pay freeze's or pay cuts
-huge shortfalls in revenue for the government meaning further spending cuts down the line and perhaps more tax increases in subsequent budgets
-rents continuing to go down meaning more are opting to rent
-general poor sentiment in the economy where people don't know how safe their jobs are, therefore buying a house/apartment is the last thing they'd do

And to judge how overpriced or underpriced property here is all you have to do is look at other countries such as US, where you can buy a 3 bed house with a swimming pool for 112,000 euros in Florida, or the UK, where the average price of a house is £150,000 or around 162,000 euros, which is less than the cost of the vast majority of 1 bed apartments here (waterways 1 bed apartments being the only apartments I could find that is cheaper than the average UK house).

europhile

I'd be very worried about some of the neighbours you might end up with at those prices.

A colleague of mine who bought an "affordable" apartment is having to sell the apartment because of the thugs who bought next door to him under the same scheme.

belcarra

shamblertine wrote: »

You can't compare it to any previous crash as the circumstances are different. But I just can't see how people will think prices will increase or stabilse given that:

-unemployment figures are massive and continuing to rise
-banks unwillingness to give out mortgages
-tax increases due in the budget next week
-widespread pay freeze's or pay cuts
-huge shortfalls in revenue for the government meaning further spending cuts down the line and perhaps more tax increases in subsequent budgets
-rents continuing to go down meaning more are opting to rent
-general poor sentiment in the economy where people don't know how safe their jobs are, therefore buying a house/apartment is the last thing they'd do

And to judge how overpriced or underpriced property here is all you have to do is look at other countries such as US, where you can buy a 3 bed house with a swimming pool for 112,000 euros in Florida, or the UK, where the average price of a house is £150,000 or around 162,000 euros, which is less than the cost of the vast majority of 1 bed apartments here (waterways 1 bed apartments being the only apartments I could find that is cheaper than the average UK house).

All good points.
One thing I'd say though is that the end of this recession WILL come at some stage. So, I suppose the reason behind this thread was to ask if the Waterways represented value in the here and now and I think it does. Whether it will in a years time is open to debate and depends on the major economies getting their finger out.
I'd freely admit to being an optimist on these issues but maybe I'd soon change my outlook if I was to lose my job. I believe next tuesday is more about the Government being able to be assured in what they are doing and giving people confidence to spend by mapping a route out of this situation. If it's anything like the mess they left us all in after the last budget then they really should be gone before they get to provide us with another budget in 4 months time again!
Sorry about the side issue of Government but I think they could be doing so much more from a confidence point of view for the people (Not only in homebuying but in every other walk of life!)

confuzed

i went 2 see those apartments yesterday. Although apartments looked OK. My main concern is number of apartments in that area. They are probably in thousands and the feeding roads are narrow, just enough for a population of 200-300 houses. Its going to be traffic nightmare in near future.

THANKS TO PLANNING AUTHORITIES. :(

shamblertine

ha so much for the clown claiming all the apartments were sold

gurramok

Something dodgy going on recently: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055530174

EnigmasWhisper

shamblertine wrote: »

ha so much for the clown claiming all the apartments were sold

I do believe that was me. I was referring to all the ones in that particular phase being sold, obviously...thus why I asked when the next phase were coming on the market. Why would I be a clown ? If thats your measurement of what a 'clown' is and your amused so easily, what would you be . . . a twat ?

EnigmasWhisper

confuzed wrote: »

i went 2 see those apartments yesterday. Although apartments looked OK. My main concern is number of apartments in that area. They are probably in thousands and the feeding roads are narrow, just enough for a population of 200-300 houses. Its going to be traffic nightmare in near future.

THANKS TO PLANNING AUTHORITIES. :(

Good point, my sis had same concerns initially also and reckons traffic is going to be very, very conjested. Typical Irish mentality though, no planning or forsight, then when problems invariably do occur we have to spend a fortune trying to find solutions

gurramok

Here's a 2nd hand one in Premier sq for 150k, alot nearer to town than RCP.. http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/brochure/321-premier-square-finglas-dublin-co&-city/URAXE370742

Point being, more and more apts are coming down in price to entice buyers.

BendiBus

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Good point, my sis had same concerns initially also and reckons traffic is going to be very, very conjested. Typical Irish mentality though, no planning or forsight, then when problems invariably do occur we have to spend a fortune trying to find solutions

They will find a solution quickly. It will be called DART.

shamblertine

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

I do believe that was me. I was referring to all the ones in that particular phase being sold, obviously...thus why I asked when the next phase were coming on the market. Why would I be a clown ? If thats your measurement of what a 'clown' is and your amused so easily, what would you be . . . a twat ?

Hahaha it was the same phase admit it. You have some hidden agenda, perhaps you are interested in the apartments and don't want any competition in them, or perhaps you're the developer/estate agent and trying to make out that loads of people are buying these apartments implying there is good value in them.

EnigmasWhisper

shamblertine wrote: »

Hahaha it was the same phase admit it. You have some hidden agenda, perhaps you are interested in the apartments and don't want any competition in them, or perhaps you're the developer/estate agent and trying to make out that loads of people are buying these apartments implying there is good value in them.

Um yes, it was the same phase...you seem confused. My sister went to see them that weekend and was told they were all sold out. They were sold out (try phoning) and my sister eventually got a cancelation. My original post here was asking did anyone know if there was going to be another phase, someone else said they didnt seem good value and I disagreed...although I did say if it was me I would wait. Id be a pretty dumb developer / estate agent to agree the infrastructure is bad in the area, and go to the trouble to reply to someone like you

You are either

• Taking the piss
• Incredibly dumb
• A child
• mad

shamblertine

EnigmasWhisper wrote: »

Um yes, it was the same phase...you seem confused. My sister went to see them that weekend and was told they were all sold out. They were sold out, and my sister eventually got a cancelation. My original post here was asking did anyone know if there was going to be another phase, someone else said they didnt seem good value and I disagreed...although I did say if it was me I would wait. Id be a pretty dumb developer / estate agent to agree the infrastructure is bad in the area, and go to the trouble to reply to someone like you

You are either

• Taking the piss
• Incredibly dumb
• A child
• mad

I may be incredibly dumb, a child and mad, but I know a fraud when I see one. You've been exposed, just own up and this will all be over soon. So it seems you have been talking down the apartments in order to difuse any interest there may have been, in order to give yourself more negotiating power with the estate agent and get a better deal for yourself. And the first phase never sold out, its been advertised in that free newspaper every week for god knows how long.

shamblertine

BendiBus wrote: »

They will find a solution quickly. It will be called DART.

the train is always full when it comes to that stop

EnigmasWhisper

shamblertine wrote: »

I may be incredibly dumb, a child and mad, but I know a fraud when I see one. You've been exposed, just own up and this will all be over soon. So it seems you have been talking down the apartments in order to difuse any interest there may have been, in order to give yourself more negotiating power with the estate agent and get a better deal for yourself. And the first phase never sold out, its been advertised in that free newspaper every week for god knows how long.

lol Ive been 'exposed' wtf ??? Who is this guy lol Ive been exposed because I asked were there anymore appartments going up in a development as my sister initially thought she missed the boat. Now....I am not only trying to sell them, but Ive then cunningly changed tactics and have started talking them down on a discussion board agreeing the infrastructure is crap so um nobody else can buy one.....your making a fool of yourself lol The phase that my sister went to see on the Saturday in question was gone Monday morning, only a penthouse and ground floor left (she didnt want ground floor, couldnt afford penthouse). Then she got a cancelation. If you can manage to think clearly in between medications, feel free to phone the estate agent associated with the appartments and ask him how many were left as of last Monday. Ive been 'exposed' your watching too many James Boind films kid

shamblertine

I just find it very hard to believe that the "second phase" of apartments apparently seemed to go on sale immediately after the first phase was sold out, yet the estate agent neglected to mention this important bit of info to your sister when she turned up the first time and was told they were all sold out. Seems more than a little suspicious to me.

EnigmasWhisper

shamblertine wrote: »

I just find it very hard to believe that the "second phase" of apartments apparently seemed to go on sale immediately after the first phase was sold out, yet the estate agent neglected to mention this important bit of info to your sister when she turned up the first time and was told they were all sold out. Seems more than a little suspicious to me.

I havent a clue about first phases, or second phases...all I know is she went to see them last Saturday, and all that was left Monday morning was two (neither of which suited her) She has since got a cancelation for a floor she does want and I suspect there will be more cancelations because I assume a lot of those who put deposits down will be refused mortgages because they are nurses, architects, carpenters etc.....all of which are apparently on the new list of occupations banks wont lend to. Nevertheless, she seems happy with her lot and has saved money by hanging on until now to buy an appartment at seemingly good value....As for what does or doesnt seem a little suspicious to you, I suspect you hide under the bed with boot polish on your face everytime you hear a car horn outside

belcarra

gurramok wrote: »

Here's a 2nd hand one in Premier sq for 150k, alot nearer to town than RCP.. http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/brochure/321-premier-square-finglas-dublin-co&-city/URAXE370742

Point being, more and more apts are coming down in price to entice buyers.

I wouldn't consider this apt being alot closer to town than the Waterways. In fact I'd imagine it'd be pretty similar distance by road and that's not even taking into account the fact that the arrow is right beside the Waterways whereas Prem Sq has no option but the Finglas Road.
I do take your point about evidence of similar home for similar price though.
Just took a look and it looks quite a bit smaller than Waterways but in good condition. I'd again say though 'priced to sell' rather than 'true value'...?

gurramok

That depends. Waterways will rely on the full Calcutta Arrow train and a long bus journey on the Navan Rd wheras Premier relies on a rake of 40/140 buses which are majority shorter journeys at peak hour.

Premier does have a huge Tesco across the road from it, Waterways just has a tiny Superquinn select.

Walking from Waterways to town is longer than from Premier, believe me, i've tried it before! Look it up on a map, Ashtown is more north west of centre than Finglas is.

John Mason

i have to say if i had a choice of premier square or the waterways, i would go with premier square.


premier square is walkable into the city whereas the waterways isnt.

you have a hundred buses with bus lanes the whole way in for the premier square

and a riddiculous full train or the 120 (which take hours in to get in town - it goes all over the shop)

all in all premier square is a much better location

markpb

gurramok wrote: »

That depends. Waterways will rely on the full Calcutta Arrow train and a long bus journey on the Navan Rd wheras Premier relies on a rake of 40/140 buses which are majority shorter journeys at peak hour.

The bus is more frequent that the Western commuter line (and the Dart too in most places). Even at rush hour, the best you can expect is a train every 20 minutes. It's hardly what you'd call solid public transport Maybe it will improve if the Dart Interconnector is built but making major decisions based on this governments public transport track record isn't exactly advisable.

BendiBus

markpb wrote: »

Maybe it will improve if the Dart Interconnector is built but making major decisions based on this governments public transport track record isn't exactly advisable.

DART to Maynooth can happen without the Interconnector. Having a train station on a double track suburban rail line serving the city center is a distinct advantage from an investment point of view (although I agree it's not necessarily of value to an individual home buyer if they don't expect to travel that route much)

gurramok

And the Finglas corridor has more bus lane with less congestion for buses i reckon than the Navan Rd->New Cabra road onwards one hence quicker to get into town.

Never rely on govt promises of a great transport system, rely on whats there now to make a decision where to live unless you see builders moving in to build the thing.:)

Borzoi

gurramok wrote: »

That depends. Waterways will rely on the full Calcutta Arrow train and a long bus journey on the Navan Rd wheras Premier relies on a rake of 40/140 buses which are majority shorter journeys at peak hour.

10 mins on the train though:D

gurramok wrote: »

Premier does have a huge Tesco across the road from it, Waterways just has a tiny Superquinn select.

And: Creche, Spar, Laundry, Gym, Cafe, Bookies, Off Licence, Take Out, Barbers, Hairdressers, Beauty Salon (x2), Estate Agent (:P). Medical centre and restaurant coming soon. But you're right, Tesco is larger, and has good stuff a round it too.

gurramok wrote: »

Walking from Waterways to town is longer than from Premier, believe me, i've tried it before! Look it up on a map, Ashtown is more north west of centre than Finglas is.

5.5km vs 4.4 km an extra 15min walk - by the way along the canal, which is quite nice.

gurramok

All this talk of water so i went for an evening stroll up there, took some pics of the existing apts.

Whats the story with all the graffiti by the canal?

confuzed

I would premier square any day than these new built ones. Both are in Finglas.
1) Wide road in front of Premier square.
2) I know quality of premier square but not of new built.
3) Technically postal address of premier square is Glasnevin
4) There is more space between two blocks of premier square.
5) Plenty of buses on that route. Max wait 5-10 mts.
6) Nearer to M50

belcarra

I think the thread is becoming a little sidetracked with a Prem sq v Waterways match! The original point of this thread was to ask if people thought Waterways represented value in the current climate at €159,000 for 1-bed. Ok, so there's another 2nd hand apt for sale 1.5 miles away. Personally, I think that's value as well. It doesn't have to be a case of either/or. I guess the fact that the discussion is now about the possible amenities/access to the city centre means that the issue of price has proven secondary??
QED - These apts are value!

gurramok

Nope, they are 1beds and do not represent value. Add an extra bed for that price and then i'd agree that there maybe is value.

We were discussing the fact just because one developement reduces prices to 159k because they could not sell them at the original price does NOT mean that its value for money nor will they be the last apts ever offered at this price or below this price.

At present a 2bed there is 248k, horrendously still overpriced.

John Mason

Borzoi wrote: »

5.5km vs 4.4 km an extra 15min walk - by the way along the canal, which is quite nice.

it is lovely but is also very dangerous, you wouldnt be walking it in the dark

its full of gangs drinking and doing other illegal stuff

i am nervous walking it in the day light tbh