Local paper used one of my shots - BUT....

artyeva

Ok - so I'm out and about on Paddy's day and take a few shots I think are worthy of sending to the local papers, right? I e-mail them off and so far one of the papers reply with ''thanks but we can't offer you a by-line as you're not in the NUJ''. This was my first time doing this so fair enough says I, no bother at all. That makes perfect sense. :rolleyes:

The paper came out today - and they have one of those montagey collagey things of Paddy's day photos from around the county - and underneath the headline are the names of the 2 local pro photographers the paper uses. ''Photos by Blah McBlah and Blah Blah''. Fair enough says I, they must only have used photos by these guys. :rolleyes:

However slap bang in the middle of the page is ONE OF MY PHOTOS. :eek:

Now neither of these guys named on that page took that photo - I DID!!!!!!

Any thoughts on if I should contact them?

[edit: by them I mean the paper]

Duchovny

Send them the invoice...

topper75

Point it out to them what you've just posted here and see what they come back with. Don't use belligerent tone or anything, just curiousity. Post their response here then.

artyeva

Wait wait wait - I forgot this bit -

I did tell them they could use the photos WITHOUT a by-line.

And this paper only pay NUJ members...

- so it's not really a case of not being paid or not getting a by-line - it's more of a case that they have credited the shot to either of 2 guys - neither of whom took the shot.....?:rolleyes:

trishw78

Do as Duchovny says and send them an invoice. It's only fair if they're not giving you a byline or credit. Search for other threads on this topic there was a very large one quite recently

Covey

The used it without a by-line as agreed. Put it down to experience.

Cabaal

ok but when they told you they only pay NUJ members did you agree to your photo being used anyway....OR did they just assume that they could use it then?

If you agreed then you have nothing, if they assumed they could then use it then you have them in the wrong

DaireQuinlan

trishw78 wrote: »

Do as Duchovny says and send them an invoice. It's only fair if they're not giving you a byline or credit. Search for other threads on this topic there was a very large one quite recently

Huh ? He sent them the photo on the understanding that he WASN'T getting a byline or any remuneration. What on earth would the above actually accomplish ? The OP is annoyed because the perception is that SOMEONE ELSE took the shot given the montage nature of the way the shots were arranged on the page. I'm with Covey, just chalk it down to experience.

Dades

artyeva wrote: »

- so it's not really a case of not being paid or not getting a by-line - it's more of a case that they have credited the shot to either of 2 guys - neither of whom took the shot.....?:rolleyes:

I can't think how else they could have done what they did, given they had to credit the other guys.

melekalikimaka

I'm with the NUJ, I wonder if this would put off papers printing my stuff, seems they get away with murder otherwise

artyeva

I agreed - so I presume I have nothing.... ok - so I chalk it down to experience.

BUT - my issue isn't that they didn't pay me - or that that they didn't put my name under the photo - my issue is that these 2 guys are getting the credit for all the shots on that page.

But they didn't take the photo of the 2 guys in the middle of the page.

I did.

melekalikimaka

well no by line means no name... this isnt an isolated incident, i'm sure alot of mantages suffer from this sorta discretionary naming

DaireQuinlan

artyeva wrote: »

I agreed - so I presume I have nothing.... ok - so I chalk it down to experience.

BUT - my issue isn't that they didn't pay me - or that that they didn't put my name under the photo - my issue is that these 2 guys are getting the credit for all the shots on that page.

But they didn't take the photo of the 2 guys in the middle of the page.

I did.

Well, honestly, if you're not comfortable with your shot being used in whatever way the paper chooses to use it then don't submit it. YOU made the choice to allow them to use it without a shred of attribution or remuneration, so you can't really complain. I take your point above, but as Dades says above, its the only way they could display all the photos given they -had- to credit the other two guys and you'd given them permission not to credit you.

artyeva

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Huh ? He sent them the photo on the understanding that he WASN'T getting a byline or any remuneration. What on earth would the above actually accomplish ? The OP is annoyed because the perception is that SOMEONE ELSE took the shot given the montage nature of the way the shots were arranged on the page. I'm with Covey, just chalk it down to experience.

I'm not actually a guy. :pac:

In response to ''what on earth I thought the above would actually accomplish'' - I thought it would get one of my shots into a newspaper.:D

I wasn't expecting to get paid cause I'm not a professional ''newspaper'' photographer and I'm not in the NUJ. I offered the paper the photo anyway because I wrongly assumed they MIGHT use the photo without any by-line - I did not know in advance they would credit it to either of 2 other people...... :P

They could have just NOT used it rather than giving someone ELSE the credit, surely???

There's a few photos on the page that are kinda bad. Maybe these were taken by the kid's mammies with a disposable 35mm - but now anyone reading it would think that either of these 2 local pro's can't take a photo of a face without half of it being in shadow - it doesn't serve them well either, surely!!!!!!:rolleyes:

trishw78

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Huh ? He sent them the photo on the understanding that he WASN'T getting a byline or any remuneration. What on earth would the above actually accomplish ? The OP is annoyed because the perception is that SOMEONE ELSE took the shot given the montage nature of the way the shots were arranged on the page. I'm with Covey, just chalk it down to experience.

I was typing that as she was posting her comment so I didn't see her comment until after she posted.

DaireQuinlan

artyeva wrote: »

I'm not actually a guy. :pac:

My apologies

In response to ''what on earth I thought the above would actually accomplish'' - I thought it would get one of my shots into a newspaper.:D

I was referring to trishw78's advice about sending in an invoice.

Eirebear

Unfortunately you agreed to them using it.

As soon as they told you "Thanks, but we cannot pay or credit you for it as you are not a member of the NUJ" (Which is rubbish by the way but thats for another day) then you had the option of saying that you didnt want them to use it.

You didnt however, and they had your picture to do as you wish with.

I know it is galling to see other peoples names on your image, i have suffered the same problem with these monatge type of pieces but given the situation there is nothing you can do.

What you maybe should do however is use it as a line of contact that you have opened with the editor?

DaireQuinlan

trishw78 wrote: »

I was typing that as she was posting her comment so I didn't see her comment until after she posted.

little more editing to be done there, trish

-edit- Ah goddamnit, I couldn't have timed my smug click on the reply button any worse :-)

trishw78

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

little more editing to be done there, trish

Think I got it all :D:D

artyeva

Eirebear wrote: »

Unfortunately you agreed to them using it.

As soon as they told you "Thanks, but we cannot pay or credit you for it as you are not a member of the NUJ" (Which is rubbish by the way but thats for another day) then you had the option of saying that you didnt want them to use it.

Is that rubbish??? do tell - or maybe if there's a linky you could share?:)

Eirebear wrote: »

I know it is galling to see other peoples names on your image, i have suffered the same problem with these monatge type of pieces but given the situation there is nothing you can do.

What you maybe should do however is use it as a line of contact that you have opened with the editor?

Yeah - thanks eirebear. Good advice to a novice - thanks for putting it nicely, like. Sometimes on boards people assume that you have more knowledge about something just because they have. Sometimes their awe at you not knowing what they know comes accross as kinda makin ya feel stoopid

Covey

Of course they can pay and credit photographers other than NUJ if they want.

They could also have a house policy to only use NUJ photographers if they want.

The world is multi-faceted :P

Eirebear

artyeva wrote: »

Is that rubbish??? do tell - or maybe if there's a linky you could share?:)



Yeah - thanks eirebear. Good advice to a novice - thanks for putting it nicely, like. Sometimes on boards people assume that you have more knowledge about something just because they have. Sometimes their awe at you not knowing what they know comes accross as kinda makin ya feel stoopid

In terms of the NUJ, unless things have changed recently there is no cast iron rule that states a newspaper can only pay their members and no one else.
Unions are a personal choice, and there are more unions than the NUJ (although they are the largest/most powerful in this case).

It may be entirely true that the newspaper in question only deals with NUJ members, again that is THEIR personal choice but i have an inherant distrust of editors especially when it comes to dealing with amateurs or people with no experience.

(this may all be completely misleading information...im sure ill be told if it is!)

As for the forum...stick around, i dont think anyone was being dismissive of you there, its just because its friday...and we like a good argument around here on a friday! :pac:

EDIT: As i say, use the fact that you have made contact with the ditor and that they have used your picture to your advantage. Keep in touch with them, find out if there are ways of getting them to use your images etc, you never know what might happen.
(If you are so inclined of course)

Ricky91t

Anyone else think this should be added to the FAQ's,Not this but help with how to layout an email to a paper so everything goes smoothly?And that if the issue is that the photos been used how to deal with it etc...

artyeva

yes please!!! :pac:

AnCatDubh

Ricky91t wrote: »

Anyone else think this should be added to the FAQ's,Not this but help with how to layout an email to a paper so everything goes smoothly?And that if the issue is that the photos been used how to deal with it etc...

This would be most useful.

If people would post material that they have used in the past which has received a positive response I'll add to the FAQ's (perhaps an abridged version of the thread).

What struck me originally in reading the thread was the assertion with regard to the NUJ which people have pointed out is so not true. It may however be a local policy to stop people from expecting to be paid for photographs that are submitted 'ad hoc'.

I'm not really surprised by anything at this stage from the media - I know that times are tough on them at the moment but I think at least if they are going to use the image which by agreement isn't going to cost them anything they should at least publish an attribution (a name at bare minimum).

I think it is a case as others have suggested to chalk it up but do take pleasure from knowing that it was YOUR photograph which was printed/published. ie. your work is good enough to be published - Yay, Go you!

(Now you just have to work on the not getting screwed part of it - don't worry you are not alone).

SBPhoto

As an NUJ Member, there is a lot of problems with pictures being submitted to the papers by none union members or people who are already in other employment, The local branches has asked the chapels in the papers to disregard these images where possible. The newspapers have been taking advantage of using these images for free (or for a payment well below the union rate) in a lot of instances at the loss of income to the Freelance Photographer who depends on this source for his livelyhood. Yes some papers with strong chapels will only take in NUJ members images, but these are few and most will accept images if they feel they dont have to pay for them.