Ireland absolutely disgraced...

Dudess

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well when you look a bit closer at the context, I feel personally embarrassed at what happened here. Firstly this "gang" or whatever you want to refer to it as, that is causing all the trouble in Tipperary Town, were drinking and making a complete nuisence of themselves in the middle of the day. This was before they attacked anyone! The Gardai saw them in mid flight p*ssed out of their faces roaring at people on the street, with their tops off, acting in what you could only call a threatening and menacing manner, and guess what the Gardai do??? The Gardai look the other way and walk up the other end of town to get a Snack Box!?!?!?!?!

Now I know you can be assaulted anywhere, but in all seriousness, these people are GARDAI, apparently trained and furthermore, HANSOMLY PAID, to identify and manage public order issues. The response on this occasion was to refuse to deal with an obvious issue early on in the day, it was allowed to develop, and a lad ends up getting his face kicked in... If I was in that mans shoes now, I'd be asking myself what kind of a dump this country is that tolerates this kind of inaction and apathy from Gardai towards KNOWN OFFENDERS. In a decent country, someone would lose their job over this, it's nothing less than a dereliction of duty.

I don't see what there is to feel embarrassed about - having the same nationality as the scumbags/incompetent Garda?
Well then English people, American people, German people should be hanging their heads in shame all day every day. There is an obsession with using the groups people belong to, to apportion blame.

Darragh29

Dudess wrote: »

I don't see what there is to feel embarrassed about - having the same nationality as the scumbags/incompetent Garda?
Well then English people, American people, German people should be hanging their heads in shame all day every day. There is an obsession with using the groups people belong to, to apportion blame.

If my relations in the US e-mailed me and asked if I would recommend Ireland for a holiday, I'd say no!!! I'd say you are not safe here. And I'd say if you were misfortunate enough to have a problem in this country, you will immediately have another problem, which is that the gardai cannot do their job so you will probably not have closure with any issue that you might be unlucky enough to encounter here....

Tchaikovsky

About 95% of the world's nations you wouldn't be recommended to visit - Ireland is in the 5% that is safe.
The media just want to create an atmosphere of fear.

Dudess

Darragh29 wrote: »

If my relations in the US e-mailed me and asked if I would recommend Ireland for a holiday, I'd say no!!! I'd say you are not safe here.

You'd be telling them a whopping lie. A few isolated incidents does not make Ireland a generally unsafe place.

And I'd say if you were misfortunate enough to have a problem in this country, you will immediately have another problem, which is that the gardai cannot do their job so you will probably not have closure with any issue that you might be unlucky enough to encounter here....

Again, you're only basing that on high profile cases. The police here ain't exactly the LAPD in the 40s in terms of corruption, and Ireland ain't exactly Capetown.
And again, no good reason given to be "embarrassed to be Irish".

Thrill

Darragh29 wrote: »

If my relations in the US e-mailed me and asked if I would recommend Ireland for a holiday, I'd say no!!! I'd say you are not safe here. And I'd say if you were misfortunate enough to have a problem in this country, you will immediately have another problem, which is that the gardai cannot do their job so you will probably not have closure with any issue that you might be unlucky enough to encounter here....

My relatives have been coming here from England and America almost every year for a holiday and they have never been attacked or harmed in any way. My aunt, who lived in Washington D.C. decided to move here with her husband to live a couple of years ago.

Surely if they thought this place was unsafe then they'd stay the hell away from here.

galwayrush

I have a friend who came here from South Africa, going on his experiences back home as a comparison, i would rate Ireland 99.999% safe.

stainluss

at least there seems to be a few decent people left, i guess any country you go to their will be auld scumbags!

steph1

Buzz Killington wrote: »

As for the garda, sure they are like the rest of ye. Just geting a wage, clocking in and clocking out. Why would they bother their bollix creating more paper work for thenselves?

Perhaps thats the problem for the Gardai. Too much paperwork required from them and not enough hours spent out on the streets and seeing what is going on.

I drive a taxi in the west of Ireland and I never saw such carry on that evening and night in the town. People plastered, puking and pissing on the streets. Couples fighting with one another in full view of everyone on the street. Kids who should have been home long ago out till 1 and 2am in the morning wandering around the streets. Where are their parents or do they not care what their kids are up to or where they are at that hour of the night/morning?

The gardai have to take some of the blame. I was driving up through the main street on my way to a fare and a gang had gathered at a fast food outlet - now this is a constant occurrence every weekend night. No way do the gardai ever ask these people to move on. I thought that if you were loitering in streets that you can be asked to move on. These people are causing an obstruction as they take over the whole footpath and nobody can get by them. Just idiots hanging around waiting to pick fights.

Also this disgusting habit of pissing in the streets I remember watching a programme on tv where in England if police see or catch anyone doing that they are immediately arrested.

I was at the taxi rank one night and a fella just stopped directly across from me in the main street and proceeded to urinate in full view of everyone passing or driving by. This type of behavious is totally unacceptable. Is it that they are so out of their faces on drink and drugs or that they dont really care what they do or who sees them.

furtzy

Used to have a reasonable respect for the Gardai until recently. I rang them up to them about a dodgy looking smashed up car and the bottom of my road. On checking the reg on cartell.ie i discovered the reg didn't match the car so rang the local Garda station. The Garda that answered the phone said "What the **** do you want me to do about it". I told him I had checked and the reg was false he said "You're so ****ing smart aren't you" and then told me not to be bothering him and hung up.

I rang back to find out the Gardas name and he wouldn't tell me

Thats the level of Gardai we have

K4t

Bring on WW3.

K4t

furtzy wrote: »

Thats the level of Gardai we have

No, that's one garda out of several thousand.

Dudess

Exactly. Any time there's a sh1tstorm going on where I live, one phonecall to the guards and a squad car is always sent round, without fail.

HashSlinging

Big problem here is when acts like this happen its big news because it hardly ever does, Sky news is full of these reports from the UK every night... Its a big bad world we live in and I for one fear the time I witness something like someone been beaten up, I probably would get involved, I have done in the past and have chipped teeth to prove it.

I think the garda are doing a great job, I've great respect for them. They cant solve all the problems in the country, voters on the other hand can.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Darragh29 wrote: »

Was listening to Joe Duffy yesterday and the discussion was about a gang in Tipperary Town that are terrorising the town.

The podcast of that particular show is here btw, for anyone interested.

Sickening to hear about these scummers getting right up in people's faces acting all hard... can't we host some kind of hard-man awards every year and award all the neanderthals with special hard-man trophies so they don't have to constantly try and prove themselves to people smaller than them?
And/or prescribe marijuana to aggressive drunks.

anplaya

RonMexico wrote: »

Sorry mate but you have been watching too much tv Darragh


When was the last time you ever saw a group of Gardai baton charge anyone?


Last time I remember was when "Robocop" did it and look what happened to him.

I witnessed a Garda arrest two scummers a few months back and he had to wait at a corner for almost 30 minutes until backup arrived all the while having to put up with abuse from scum who had him surrounded. He was lucky not to get lynched.

thats bull****,i saw guards bouncing batons off some scummers heads plenty of times, they certainly werent useing rubber ones and the blood coming out of their heads wasnt tomato ketchup,they were absolutely layin into em
if i was a guard and a scummer gave me guff id bounce the thing of them so hard id probably break it.if theyre gonna act the hard man etc to some innocent person they might as well take their beatin .its their choice to act as a scummer.

anplaya

I witnessed a Garda arrest two scummers a few months back and he had to wait at a corner for almost 30 minutes until backup arrived all the while having to put up with abuse from scum who had him surrounded. He was lucky not to get lynched.[/quote]

guards generally go around in pairs so where was the other one?also no way cud he b waiting 30 mins,ive had guards call to my parents house before and they were no more than five minutes,and it was generally t deal with scummers in the area,so if a guard is in trouble i reckon theyd be there quicker than a whore finishin off a punter

old boy

Iolar wrote: »

Al well and good internet hardmen bull**** about the gardai doing nothing etc come into the real thing and say the same,armchair idiots

i have been there and done that, i have traveled the globe, am i included in the sentance armchair idiot. i would be glad to have elevenes with you anytime

big b

Dudess wrote: »

This isn't "disgracing Ireland" - that couple, well understandably they were very distressed, but getting out of the country as fast as they could based on an incident that happened to take place in one corner of the entire country... is rather knee-jerk.
Guy arrives here, swiftly gets the sh*t kicked out of him, decides to leave - that's a knee-jerk reaction?:rolleyes:
I mean, if they're going to go round telling all their mates "oh man, Ireland is really dangerous - look what happened to me there", **** 'em tbh.
Yeah, he should really go home & tell his mates "I just got there, got the sh*t kicked out of me, but in fairness I didn't see it happen to anyone else apart from a few other people the same day" But, yeah, f*ck him, eh?:rolleyes:

As an Irish person living in Ireland, I have absolutely zero reason to feel any sort of responsibility for that attack.
No-one said you should feel responsible, however some people may be embarrassed that their fellow countrymen attack strangers in this way

The vast, vast, vast majority of visitors to this country get on just fine. It doesn't have anywhere near as bad a crime problem as the United States.
Cool, so we should just accept it when it does happen, cos some other places are worse?
In Turkey, the police keep people in check by being really intimidating. It's a difficult one - to strike a balance between threatening/coercive and neither, yet still being effective (as seems to be the case in Belgium).

LOL - going against the grain, apropos nothing. How interesting of you.

In fairness, it's understandable when people get annoyed by scumbags having the upper hand.
So now, the American guy can f*ck off for getting annoyed at being savagely assaulted, but it's ok for us to get annoyed about it?

This post goes from low standards to double-standards pretty quickly

Dudess

big b wrote: »

Guy arrives here, swiftly gets the sh*t kicked out of him, decides to leave - that's a knee-jerk reaction?:rolleyes:

Yes, fleeing the country as if the whole of Ireland is rife with dangers such as what he had the misfortune to experience... is kneejerk. He could have just left the town it happened in.

Yeah, he should really go home & tell his mates "I just got there, got the sh*t kicked out of me, but in fairness I didn't see it happen to anyone else apart from a few other people the same day" But, yeah, f*ck him, eh?:rolleyes:

You're missing the point - spectacularly. But you use the rolleyes symbol so you're on a winner. I said, if he goes home and tells people the whole of Ireland is dangerous, based on an experience only he had, **** him. That's being narrow-minded and ignorant. I'm inclined to believe he would say that to people, seeing as he felt he had to get out of Ireland because of an attack that happened to occur on Irish soil.

Cool, so we should just accept it when it does happen, cos some other places are worse?

No. Where on earth did I say that? I'm simply making the point that Ireland isn't as dangerous as some people say it is.

So now, the American guy can f*ck off for getting annoyed at being savagely assaulted, but it's ok for us to get annoyed about it?

Selecting bits of posts does not make for very good debating. Did I say the American guy can **** off for getting annoyed at being savagely assaulted? No. I said the American guy, if he goes home and tells people that Ireland is a really dangerous place because of the assault he experienced - tarring an entire country based on one incident - then he can **** off.

You're just pretending to misunderstand what I'm saying aren't you? Because it really shouldn't be too difficult to follow...

DonkeyStyle \o/

The beating was unfortunately a part of their overall holiday experience... wanting to bring the whole experience to a close seems perfectly understandable. After such a traumatic event, I guess you just want to go back to what's safe and familiar to recover... who could blame them?
I wouldn't expect "ah sure it was just an isolated incident" thinking from anyone who'd just been through that.
Maybe it was a knee jerk reaction, but if you get ten tons of shít kicked out of you for no reason, your knee might just jerk a bit afterwards.
It's easy to be all logical Mr.Spock about it from the sidelines... but don't overlook the mental injuries... you might still be able to kiss the Blarney stone with a neck brace, but I'd imagine he'd be too emotionally numb to enjoy it.
If the holiday experience was a write-off due to the attack, then it's reasonable to not bother spending any more time or money on it.

I haven't been following the whole 'knee-jerk' conversation very closely, so apologies in advance if I've taken you up wrong.

Rented Mule

The sad part about this experience is that it is going to cost Ireland in the long run. These people will head back to Anytown, USA (where it is probably already in the news) and tell everyone what a horrible experience that they had at the hands of the drunken Irish.

In these current economic times, people are very slow to spend cash as it is. Getting them to leave the USA is another feat in itself. Their money will probably be spent someplace (statistically more dangerous and) warmer.

In a country that is slowly headed back to tourism and agriculture as it's main source of income, this is not what anyone needs.

magick

Rented Mule wrote: »

The sad part about this experience is that it is going to cost Ireland in the long run. These people will head back to Anytown, USA (where it is probably already in the news) and tell everyone what a horrible experience that they had at the hands of the drunken Irish.

they may not come back but i think they will put it down to drunken scumbags and not drunken "Irish"

Ive had a few probs here does that mean im gonna blame all of the USA? No because 99% are good people but where ever u go u will always find rotten apples

Rented Mule

magick wrote: »

they may not come back but i think they will put it down to drunken scumbags and not drunken "Irish"

Ive had a few probs here does that mean im gonna blame all of the USA? No because 99% are good people but where ever u go u will always find rotten apples

I agree with what you are saying about the 'rotten apples' but these people went from the hospital to the airport.

They are going to paint everyone with the same brush.

big b

Dudess wrote: »

Yes, fleeing the country as if the whole of Ireland is rife with dangers such as what he had the misfortune to experience... is kneejerk. He could have just left the town it happened in.

You're missing the point - spectacularly. But you use the rolleyes symbol so you're on a winner. I said, if he goes home and tells people the whole of Ireland is dangerous, based on an experience only he had, **** him. That's being narrow-minded and ignorant. I'm inclined to believe he would say that to people, seeing as he felt he had to get out of Ireland because of an attack that happened to occur on Irish soil.

No. Where on earth did I say that? I'm simply making the point that Ireland isn't as dangerous as some people say it is.

Selecting bits of posts does not make for very good debating. Did I say the American guy can **** off for getting annoyed at being savagely assaulted? No. I said the American guy, if he goes home and tells people that Ireland is a really dangerous place because of the assault he experienced - tarring an entire country based on one incident - then he can **** off.

You're just pretending to misunderstand what I'm saying aren't you? Because it really shouldn't be too difficult to follow...

Dudess,
If you think anyone is going to have an experience like that guy did, get out of hospital & say to himself "well, statistically I was just unlucky there, what time's the next train to Blarney?" you're living in a fantasy land.

Similarly, expecting the guy to finish his holiday then go home & say to his buds "well,my holiday consisted of being hospitalised by a savage beating just after I got there - a few others got attacked that day too-, but hey, Killarney was beautiful & I didn't get attacked again the whole 2 weeks" is detached from reality. How many people return from a holiday & DON'T base their recollections on their personal experiences?

I don't think I was quoting your post selectively - I responded to all the main points, I think. I stand by my assertion that you started by saying this guy can f*ck off if he goes home & relates HIS experience of Ireland, but finished by saying that it's understandable that boardsies get annoyed by scumbags doing things such as the very case this thread is based on.
Pretending to misunderstand you? No, I got mixed messages from your post.
If you really think that this guy is going to work for Irish tourism by washing over his personal experiences to defend the bigger picture, then no, I don't understand you. In my experience, real life ain't like that.

My use of roll-eyes smilies, by the way, was because rolling my eyes was exactly what I did when I read your post.

markesmith

Well, eight pages of discussion. I'd say that's a lot more thinking than the attacker has done since the assault. I passed by one of those "cops on the beat"-type shows last night, and they were in Edinburgh. They had some drunken oaf on the ground, handcuffed, and a cop (easier to type!) had his knee in your man's back, and another had the suspect's feet in some uncomfortable position. No messing about.

To be honest, we all know that this happens regularly. For anyone who's been in Mullingar on a night out, to those of us who called in for a few pints in Tipperary after a match, to seeing Ennis town centre effectively closed on a Saturday night, to getting a taxi up the Rathmines Road and seeing a full-scale streetfight at 2 a.m. outside the Garda station, with no Gardai in sight.

I see trouble almost every night I go out, and if you took alcohol out of the equation you'd have a load of lads looking at their shoes. The drink culture in Ireland is nuts - I say, if you're caught fighting, you should be force-fed that drug that makes you allergic to alcohol. But maybe that's just my fascistic side.

seamus

I know a J1 student who got mugged on a university campus and had to have the top of his skull removed to allow his brain to swell while he spent 3 months in a coma and racked up $3m in medical bills while his VHI would only pay $50,000.

Ergo: The USA is dangerous and unsafe for tourists.

Every country has their scum. The problem with tourists is that they don't have the awareness to spot them quite so easily and end up being attacked or kidnapped when any locals would have spotted the danger immediately.

Red Alert

The trouble is that there's a fundamental lack of respect for law and order in this country. Look at this forum, there's loads of sour-grapes threads where people have nothing better to do than criticize the gardai because they enforce the law. If the guards hit some scumbag he's able to sue them. Personally I'd love to be back in the day when the guards could kick the crap through the low life who are making people's lives a misery.

Wagon

Relevant wrote: »

If the gardai gave out the beatings that some people deserve you only end up with all the bleeding hearts giving out about it.
Every time they are in any way heavy handed they end up in front of inquiries and are investigated for mistreatment. The minute they get even remotely physical they have some tosser waving a camera phone in their face screaming about the ombudsman

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Exactly. If the Gardai get heavy handed with these f*ckers then the exact same bleeding hearts group will be back onto Joe Duffy giving out yards about policing in this country etc and some other muppets in the Dail will no doubt be doing the same. It pi*ses me off no end the double standards some people have. You either want these people dealt with by the Gardai as hard and heavy handed as needs be or else you are happy with gangs going around doing as they like. There is simply no in between.

It's a no win situation for the Gardai who are in the middle of this and getting it from both sides.

This is the root of the problem I think. Chin_grin (I'm not having a go mate) but I noticed your post here:

chin_grin wrote: »

What you're implying sounds like vigilantism though......hmm.

There's a huge difference between self defence and vigilantism. The problem is people have a difficult time telling them apart, which is why a lot of arseholes will walk into the courts with the "bad family" and "lacking social skills" defence and the offender walks away. People who do this are almost just as responsable for the current situation as those commiting crimes, as they are preventing the legal system from actually doing what it was designed for. That said, the system still needs a serious overhaul.

People need to learn the difference between those that defend themselves and those that attack. There's only so much you can do on an internet forum concerning this topic but helping people change their attitudes could be one of them, who knows

Dudess

big b wrote: »

Dudess,
If you think anyone is going to have an experience like that guy did, get out of hospital & say to himself "well, statistically I was just unlucky there, what time's the next train to Blarney?" you're living in a fantasy land.

I'd expect nothing of the sort - I would however deem it only fair that a person doesn't effectively blame an entire country - by fleeing it - for an unlucky experience they had in that country, no matter how horrendous.

Similarly, expecting the guy to finish his holiday then go home & say to his buds "well,my holiday consisted of being hospitalised by a savage beating just after I got there - a few others got attacked that day too-, but hey, Killarney was beautiful & I didn't get attacked again the whole 2 weeks" is detached from reality.

Again, missing bits. Did I say it would be unreasonable of the guy to go home and complain about his terrible experience? No. I said it would be unfair of the guy to say "Ireland is a really dangerous place - guess what happened to me". Stating a country is really dangerous based on isolated incidents is moronic. Ireland is extremely safe - it's laughable and fishing for a bit of drama to suggest otherwise. Any South African ex pats reading this are probably pissing themselves at how this country is portrayed here.

I don't think I was quoting your post selectively - I responded to all the main points, I think. I stand by my assertion that you started by saying this guy can f*ck off if he goes home & relates HIS experience of Ireland, but finished by saying that it's understandable that boardsies get annoyed by scumbags doing things such as the very case this thread is based on.

Well it very much looks like you were being selective - or not reading the post properly. Relaying in disgust his experience - fair enough; saying Ireland is really dangerous and he'd never go back there - not fair enough. You seem to be saying I'm suggesting they're the same thing.
And of course people are entitled to moan about scumbags when they are a reality - I really don't see the double standards. Ireland isn't as dangerous as people are making out though, which is my main point. However that doesn't mean there aren't scumbags.

TouchingVirus

I agree with a bit of what Dudess is saying but I think it needs to be put into perspective.

The guy was here on a holiday, probably for two weeks or so. First day here he gets a savage beating and we're not talking a scuffle or a few slaps either. I mean if reports are to be believed about broken noses, mangled faces etc I'd say he wouldn't have enjoyed the rest of his stay no matter where it was so he just shipped off home.

Of course it wouldn't be right if he started his opinions with 'Ireland was terrible, I got beaten to a pulp...' but that's what will happen. When I come back from holidays in Orlando there'll be a few of my friends who'll ask me how Florida was, and I'll reply with 'Florida was..' despite only being in Orlando for fully 99% of the time I'm there. We all do it, or almost all of us do the generalising thing - it's no need to go all "well f*ck him" about it