so.. whens this strike

kueef

when's the strike on..
the su better hurry up cause we only have like 5 days...
or did i go to all that effort to vote for nothing,,,,,,,,

Hande hoche!

Sorry bit confused here what strike?

thebigcheese22

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Sorry bit confused here what strike?

He means the one-day shutdown of campus, passed in the recent referendum, against the reintroduction of college fees.

I'm on the working group for it and its on Monday the 30th, to coincide with the national teacher strike. I know its not ideal as lectures aren't on, but many people will be studying on campus so twil be good to have a unified protest, as I think the lecturers are gonna strike as well.

deisedude

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

He means the one-day shutdown of campus, passed in the recent referendum, against the reintroduction of college fees.

I'm on the working group for it and its on Monday the 30th, to coincide with the national teacher strike. I know its not ideal as lectures aren't on, but many people will be studying on campus so twil be good to have a unified protest, as I think the lecturers are gonna strike as well.

Thats thick, so we are going on strike on a day there is nothing to strike from. While the lecturers are striking when they have no classes to teach. Only in Ireland!:rolleyes:

yerayeah

Please tell me the library will be open?!

KnifeWRENCH

I'm kinda glad it's not on a day with lectures. I don't want to have to miss potentially important lectures because of it. Then again, I'm not totally against fees being brought in tbh.

bleg

0

that's how much ye're going to achieve

thebigcheese22

bleg wrote: »

0

that's how much ye're going to achieve

Real helpful input mate.

How about you show up the meetings and provide helpful suggestions rather than bitching about it?

Peyton Manning

deisedude wrote: »

Thats thick, so we are going on strike on a day there is nothing to strike from. While the lecturers are striking when they have no classes to teach. Only in Ireland!:rolleyes:

So you think you have the right to disrupt a day of lectures for those who dont want to strike just to satisfy your own agenda?

thebigcheese22

Lads I dont think you get the idea behind this. The lecturer's unions are prob gonna vote to strike as well, so the campus will be closed anyway.
Us students are gonna walk out to show solidarity with the lecturers and teachers against these ridiculous education cuts, as well as against the reintroduction of fees.
This decisions has been mandated by 83% of UCC students in a referendum - the vast vast majority

bleg

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Real helpful input mate.

How about you show up the meetings and provide helpful suggestions rather than bitching about it?

why would i do that? i'm pro college fees.

deRanged

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

This decisions has been mandated by 83% of UCC students in a referendum - the vast vast majority

no it hasn't. it was mandated by 83% of those that voted. big difference.

I don't think the campus will be closed - at least I hope it won't. I fully intend to go in to do a days work.

thebigcheese22

deRanged wrote: »

no it hasn't. it was mandated by 83% of those that voted. big difference.

LOL! If you didn't bother voting then you or anyone else can't complain.

deRanged

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

LOL! If you didn't bother voting then you or anyone else can't complain.

not a student ....

thebigcheese22

deRanged wrote: »

not a student ....

Then why are you on the UCC forum discussing student matters? I suppose you're in favour of fees as well??

deisedude

Archimedes wrote: »

So you think you have the right to disrupt a day of lectures for those who dont want to strike just to satisfy your own agenda?

My own agenda, its all students agenda. I'm sickened that people are so apathetic as to just lie doen and leave the government walk all over us. The simple fact is we have to make a sacrifice, a worthwhile sacrifice. If that means missing a days lectures for the greater good then so be it. All i'm saying is we are not going to achieve anything by striking on a day the vast majority of the student body wont even be in college

thebigcheese22

bleg wrote: »

why would i do that? i'm pro college fees.

That figures :rolleyes:


Agree 100% with deisedudes post above

KnifeWRENCH

deRanged wrote: »

no it hasn't. it was mandated by 83% of those that voted. big difference.

Was it really that much? 83 sounds very high...
Anyway I'm one of the 17% that voted NO to that referendum, I just don't see how a one day disruption will have any effect whatsoever.
I'm neutral on the fees issue, for purely selfish reasons - if they're brought back I almost certainly won't have to pay them anyway because it would be means tested. So as long as I'm not paying fees, I really don't give a damn about anyone else paying fees.
With all that said, if fees aren't brought back, all well and good.

kueef

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

He means the one-day shutdown of campus, passed in the recent referendum, against the reintroduction of college fees.

I'm on the working group for it and its on Monday the 30th, to coincide with the national teacher strike. I know its not ideal as lectures aren't on, but many people will be studying on campus so twil be good to have a unified protest, as I think the lecturers are gonna strike as well.

wow how stupid is that..
a complete waste of time me voting for it...:mad:

stupid.......

thebigcheese22

square_igloo wrote: »

Was it really that much? 83 sounds very high...

Sorry twas just a bit lower at 80% but you have to admit that figure is fairly convincing -

Total Poll: 3,156

Spoilt 78

Valid Poll: 3,078

Yes: 2,527

No: 551

Result: PASSED

I'm neutral on the fees issue, for purely selfish reasons - if they're brought back I almost certainly won't have to pay them anyway because it would be means tested. So as long as I'm not paying fees, I really don't give a damn about anyone else paying fees.

At least you admit your attitude is selfish! I'm in the same boat, I won't have to pay fees either because it will be fees tested but I am still vehemently against them, and will fight against them for future generations. (I am actually the youngest in my family so no younger siblings)

Never mind the fact that one of the reasons fees were shelved (by the Labour Party might I add) was because farmers and self-employed people were altering their accounts in order for their children not to pay fees. Means-testing has been proven shoddy so noone should be in favour of it.

Also never mind the fact that what a persons parents make should have nothing to do with their third level education, as they are adults in the eyes of the law. Third level education should be for all, rich or poor.

Basically I'm against it because bringing back fees will damage our economy, and we will never be able to build that knowledge based economy which is one of Fianna Failure's stated aims. If a limit of 100000 for parents earnings is put in, this will eventually be lowered, just like the registration fee has been hiked through the back door. If fees are brought in beware, it will end up as before, with only a minority going to college, unlike the majority now.

KnifeWRENCH

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

At least you admit your attitude is selfish! I'm in the same boat, I won't have to pay fees either because it will be fees tested but I am still vehemently against them, and will fight against them for future generations. (I am actually the youngest in my family so no younger siblings)

I'm the youngest aswell!

Well I wish ye luck but since it won't affect me either way it's not something I'd bother getting invlved in tbh.
(I know I'm selfish, but I don't think selfish is necessarily a bad thing to be! :pac:)

deRanged

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Then why are you on the UCC forum discussing student matters?

I don't even know where to begin with a statement like that.

I suppose you're in favour of fees as well??

I'm strongly in favour of fees. As someone who has paid fees in the past, and who has also had the benefit of not paying fees, and someone who's lectured and corrected assignments and dealt with students over the last few years.
I don't say it lightly.

deisedude

deRanged wrote: »

I don't even know where to begin with a statement like that.



I'm strongly in favour of fees. As someone who has paid fees in the past, and who has also had the benefit of not paying fees, and someone who's lectured and corrected assignments and dealt with students over the last few years.
I don't say it lightly.

Get off your high horse, its elitism of the highest order. The reintroduction of fees will usher in a massive drop off in people going on to third level as people simply wont be able to afford it. How can you be in favour of that?

deRanged

deisedude wrote: »

Get off your high horse,

what high horse?

its elitism of the highest order.

what is - my statement or the return of fees?

The reintroduction of fees will usher in a massive drop off in people going on to third level as people simply wont be able to afford it.

very possibly.

How can you be in favour of that?

you know UCC is operating at a massive deficit? you know staff are having their pay cut? you know they close the buildings during the summer to save money? you know they cut back on all sorts of services to save money? you know much of the equipment is old and badly needs replacement, but there's no money? you know contracts are not being renewed and as a result people are no longer employed?

this in unsustainable. something has to give.

have you ever given a lecture?
have you ever prepared work, prepared notes and slides and turned up to discover that many students couldn't be bothered to turn up?
have you ever corrected coursework, and had badly written gibberish handed up?
have you ever had a student call to tell you that he simply didn't bother to turn up to an exam and could he please have a re-sit?
have you ever corrected coursework and had many identical pages turned in?
have you ever had wikipedia articles turned in as coursework?

again, I don't say it lightly. I do think that the return of fees could be a very positive thing.

thebigcheese22

deRanged wrote: »

you know UCC is operating at a massive deficit? you know staff are having their pay cut? you know they close the buildings during the summer to save money? you know they cut back on all sorts of services to save money? you know much of the equipment is old and badly needs replacement, but there's no money? you know contracts are not being renewed and as a result people are no longer employed?

If thats the case, funding to colleges should be increased obviously. This won't happen if fees are renitroduced, and if you believe it will then the Gov has totally fooled you. If third level(or education generally) doesn't receive enough funding then we need to borrow or raise taxes. Simple as.

have you ever given a lecture?

I think thats the aforementioned high horse you sir are sitting on.

have you ever prepared work, prepared notes and slides and turned up to discover that many students couldn't be bothered to turn up?
have you ever corrected coursework, and had badly written gibberish handed up?
have you ever had a student call to tell you that he simply didn't bother to turn up to an exam and could he please have a re-sit?
have you ever corrected coursework and had many identical pages turned in?
have you ever had wikipedia articles turned in as coursework?

I resent this blatant generalization. Of course there'l be a minority of students who can't hack it but thats not the case for the vast majority. You don't need to 'correct papers' to know that. I resent the insinuation that many students are total idiots, which you seem to imply.

Also, can I ask what subject you lecture? You seem to think that you being a lecturer/tutor seems to give you the upper hand in this argument. It doesn't.

again, I don't say it lightly

Doesn't seem like the case to me tbh.

up them Schteps

Diesedude, I dont think we will see a (Big) drop in the number of students going to college if fees are re-introduced. It WILL mean however that from possibly 17years old and up, people will be carrying significant loans to get them through college. If you look at the system they have in America every college has fees.

I think this is worth fighting, not just to keep people in uni, but to avoid teenagers with massive debt!

But also, in my department (I'm a student), our equipment needs serious updating but the department had their funding cut from like €150,000 2years ago, to €50,000 this year. That is a huge drop considering the department is always producing top class graduates year in, year out, due to the level of the lectures we, as students recieve. I know if funding is cut even more, postgrads who monitor labs will be laid-off (Potentially) or even lecturers.

Everything has to be considered, not just the fucc fees approach

Also, BigCheese, you can argue to the cows come home about the government fooling people, but I don't think, personally, that the student union has explained the whole situation properly. Everybody has their own opinions of what life will be like with or without fees, but if they explained what the government would have to if fees were not introduced, people would see reason. Also, I dont think their will be anymore tax hikes, as people aren't spending as much anymore and revenue tax is also after a huge drop. Were really caught between a rock and two stones here....

deRanged

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

I think thats the aforementioned high horse you sir are sitting on.

ok. I'm on a high horse because I've given a few lectures.

I resent this blatant generalization.

I took the time to type that all out precisely not to generalise.
Those are experiences I've had. I'm stating facts, describing events that have happened to me. These events inform my opinions. These self same opinions that I'm typing up here.

Of course there'l be a minority of students who can't hack it but thats not the case for the vast majority.

.
what I'm describing is nothing to do with "hacking it" or otherwise.

You don't need to 'correct papers' to know that.

again, I'm mentioning my experiences, in the hopes that you might believe that I do not say these things lightly. I am making an informed statement.

I resent the insinuation that many students are total idiots, which you seem to imply.

I seemed to imply nothing of the sort.

Also, can I ask what subject you lecture? You seem to think that you being a lecturer/tutor seems to give you the upper hand in this argument. It doesn't.

again, I'm stating my experiences. I'm not claiming to be special. I'm mentioning my opinion, and trying to show that it's an informed one.
I'm not a lecturer btw, I just give the very occasional one, and dealt with students for a bit.

Doesn't seem like the case to me tbh.

deisedude

deRanged wrote: »

what high horse?


what is - my statement or the return of fees?



very possibly.



you know UCC is operating at a massive deficit? you know staff are having their pay cut? you know they close the buildings during the summer to save money? you know they cut back on all sorts of services to save money? you know much of the equipment is old and badly needs replacement, but there's no money? you know contracts are not being renewed and as a result people are no longer employed?

this in unsustainable. something has to give.

have you ever given a lecture?
have you ever prepared work, prepared notes and slides and turned up to discover that many students couldn't be bothered to turn up?
have you ever corrected coursework, and had badly written gibberish handed up?
have you ever had a student call to tell you that he simply didn't bother to turn up to an exam and could he please have a re-sit?
have you ever corrected coursework and had many identical pages turned in?
have you ever had wikipedia articles turned in as coursework?

again, I don't say it lightly. I do think that the return of fees could be a very positive thing.

I think your statements are condescending to students. The introduction of fees is elitist, people shouldnt have to pick up a tab for the basic right of education. I'm well aware of all the arguments you posed; lecturers are well off enough to cope with a pay cut in all fairness. I dont think introducing fees are going to rectify many of the problems you oultined. Basic economics would tell you a decrease in students would mean less revenue anyway.

As for your questions based on your own experience. I havent encountered any of those problems as i'm not a lecturer. Just because your bitter with what i would figure is a small minority of students i dont think its fair to tarnish the rest of us with the same brush. You seem to believe that if students have to pay for their education they will respect it more. This argument may carry some credence with a few but the majority of students value their education anyway

deRanged

deisedude wrote: »

[The introduction of fees is elitist, people shouldnt have to pick up a tab for the basic right of education.

well who should pay then? someone has to. if not those receiving the education then who?

lecturers are well off enough to cope with a pay cut in all fairness.

now that is a generalisation. there are many pay scales and many fine lecturers are right down the lower end. they certainly will have problems with this pay cut.
one could even say that if lecturers have to take pay cuts students should pay fees. one could throw the word "fair" in there.

Basic economics would tell you a decrease in students would mean less revenue anyway.

and less cost.

As for your questions based on your own experience. I havent encountered any of those problems as i'm not a lecturer.

good thing too, or you'd also be on a high horse.

Just because your bitter

not in the least.
simply stating my opinions. waiting for someone to come along with a decent counter point instead of just telling me I'm on a high horse, or generalising, or being condescending.

You seem to believe that if students have to pay for their education they will respect it more.

you know, I do. I really really believe that. It's only one of the reasons that I think fees could be a good thing mind you.

This argument may carry some credence with a few but the majority of students value their education anyway

Have a glance through the boards here asking for advice on choosing courses. One of the primary questions is "how many hours a week". People are looking for courses with low hours. That says a lot to me. Couple that with low attendance figures, and that says even more to me. but it's still only one reason.

thebigcheese22

deRanged wrote: »

Have a glance through the boards here asking for advice on choosing courses. One of the primary questions is "how many hours a week".

Link? :rolleyes:

People are looking for courses with low hours. That says a lot to me. Couple that with low attendance figures, and that says even more to me. but it's still only one reason.

Ah yes, of course us students are the ones generalizing, of course! I'd suggest sir you get off boards and talk to students nowadays, as you seem to have a very skewed image of them. How many years have you been graduated? Seems like quite a while to me, so out of touch with students you seem to be.

Fairdues

If there's a stike on Monday 30th and the lecturers are taking strike action, I don't imagine anyone is going to miss vital lectures on that day. Lecturers would surely have to modify their plans to fit in any vital lectures at another time. They couldn't very well say afterwards -'That vital question on your final exam paper is actually the question/topic I would have covered if I hadn't been striking back on 30th March 2009'.