BSG 2003 S4E20/21 'Daybreak Part 2/Part 3' ***Spoilers***

lostexpectation

but the cylon hybrids had artificial parts does not hera?

only the final five are compatiable, do they frak 38,000 humans

noodler

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Great ep IMHO. Maybe a bit over-literal in trying to explain every last thing but what's the point of nitpicking? - it was still great.

My personal favourite bit: Baltar more-or-less redeeming himself with his speech to Cavil and then later when he was overcome as he said "I do know about farming, you know". Ahhhhhh

PS No frakkin' way would I adopt a primitive neolithic lifestyle and let my starship packed with techno-goodies be thrown away.
BTW this was a big missed opportunity to give Pink Floyd's "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" a runout

What were the colonials going to do though? The ships don't run on thin air, they also need food and water. Besides they weren't a space faring folk by tradition and a habitable planet was the aim, the endgame so to speak.

Cina

On retrospect it was a very, very good episode and it did wrap everything up. My main gripe is just the 9 episodes before that. They really were very poor at times, and they added some outrageous things to the plot in the last 2 seasons. What gripes me the most is that for the most part, they always seemed to know where they were going with the show, until it came to revealing the final 5 and they realized they hadn't a clue who to pick.

They picked them and had to completely reshape some elements of the plot to accommodate this, and towards the end it got overly complex and I thought they were explaining things rather poorly.

I've no real gripe with the religious aspect, it was always an element of the show, but I think they overdid it towards the end. I really just didn't like the stuff with Kara being this divine intervention or whatever she was, it seemed a bit daft to me.

One thing I found incredible daft was them leaving the ships and medicine supplies and all that behind. I think the only reason this was done was to make it more believable that they could have been our descendants, or whatever.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, BSG was a superb show, I just wish the final episodes had kept it that way, but they didn't for me.

Vokes

Super ending for a super show.

Some purty CGI + old Centurians vs Red Stripes !

Very satisfying & emotional closings to the main players, i.e. Adama, Roslin, Lee, Kara, Baltar - and the flashbacks tied in nicely with those.

Bear McCreary really went all out with the score. And managed to get in the Colonial Anthem there with the Fleet and the Old Girl moving off into the sun(set). Beautiful

My only gripe, was dead-Racetrack managing to fire off nukes just when they needed it. Hmmmm.

Is anyone suprised that dead-Kara and the Head characters weren't explained? Talk about frustrating.

Johnny Storm

On mature relection I actually came up with a thought! :eek:
Remember the primitives that Adama, Baltar et al were observing? Were they the Neanderthals, the race of man who were replaced by the race Homo Sapiens? Which probably means that Homo Sapiens are/were the Galacticos?

stevenmu

I was worried about this, a bad ending would have ruined all that went before it IMO, but it ended very well.

I especially loved the last few minutes showing modern day earth, the robots and head six and baltar talking. It seemed to me like the 'it' they mentioned could be some type of very advanced AI from a much earlier iteration.

I'll be very interested now to see what the concept for "The Plan" will be. The colonials can't really be of much more interest, so I think it must either involve modern day humans or it might follow the centurions who left on the base ship. And obviously with the name it will have to involve "it" somehow.

pug_

Johnny Storm wrote: »

On mature relection I actually came up with a thought! :eek:
Remember the primitives that Adama, Baltar et al were observing? Were they the Neanderthals, the race of man who were replaced by the race Homo Sapiens? Which probably means that Homo Sapiens are/were the Galacticos?

No modern man is not a direct descendant of Neanderthals, it's more a case of Neanderthals being another species that lived alongside man until about 30 odd thousand years ago when they died out.

stevenmu wrote:

I especially loved the last few minutes showing modern day earth, the robots and head six and baltar talking. It seemed to me like the 'it' they mentioned could be some type of very advanced AI from a much earlier iteration.

I'll be very interested now to see what the concept for "The Plan" will be. The colonials can't really be of much more interest, so I think it must either involve modern day humans or it might follow the centurions who left on the base ship. And obviously with the name it will have to involve "it" somehow.

I said the same thing in the other thread and was scoffed at

Goodshape

stevenmu wrote: »

I'll be very interested now to see what the concept for "The Plan" will be.

There's a promo for The Plan somewhere on the SciFi website.

It's about

what the Cylons got upto at the start of the series, directly after the destruction of the twelve colonies

.


About the "God" aspect of the show... in my mind, this is science fiction. If BSG is saying anything about our God, it's that God is just a human concept for things we don't understand, and the universe is full of things we don't understand.

This unseen guiding hand in BSG, apart form being a (little too) convenient get-out for any pesky plot points, is similar to Q or the wormhole creatures in Star Trek.... powerful, mysterious, unexplainable - yes. But not GOD. Just a SCIENCE FICTION interpretation of what we know as God might actually be.

fguihen

Johnny Storm wrote: »

On mature relection I actually came up with a thought! :eek:
Remember the primitives that Adama, Baltar et al were observing? Were they the Neanderthals, the race of man who were replaced by the race Homo Sapiens? Which probably means that Homo Sapiens are/were the Galacticos?

I believe the show meant us to think those primitive humans are indeed the earliest form of homo (tee hee!) sapiens.

I also think that the show meant us to believe that Hera was indeed "Eve" so to speak. not that the other survivors didnt have kids or anything, but that the only ones to evolve and survive and end up being " us" were Hera's decendants.

Dont you think the "God'" characters are almost like scientists. i mean they have tried this out on Cobol, Caprica, Radioactive earth and failed each time, but they are trying now again. Less "divine" and more in the pursuit of a result.

Niska

Great end to the series.

Seeing the ol' girl heading sunwards with the old BSG/Colonial Anthem was quite moving.
Nice wrap up for the characters, and some great action pieces (loved the Raptors jumping from the hangar baying causing it to blow-out was my personal highlight).

Overall was missing someone at the end (150,000 years later) saying "There are those that believe that life here began out there..."

Derek Coleman

fguihen wrote: »

Dont you think the "God'" characters are almost like scientists. i mean they have tried this out on Cobol, Caprica, Radioactive earth and failed each time, but they are trying now again. Less "divine" and more in the pursuit of a result.

Wait a minute. They aren't trying anything out. The "God" characters / Angels are trying to prevent the Human race from destroying themselves. They leave humanity to do what it wants but step in at the last minute to prevent total wipeout. They aren't trying to create a cycle but it keeps happening.

And the theory that "IT" was meant to mean some A.I. theory......... come on man. "It" has to be simply a reference to the idea that its not God/Gods/He/She/Zeus/The Wizard of Oz. Its just a being that exists. Call it whatever you want.

noodler

Although I agree they were being PC there. I really didn't see the need, surely the term god is general enough?

Was there really anything in the show pointing to Christianity other than the fact most of them were white?


I keep laughing when I think of Cavil blowing his brains out. I swear to god, straight out of South Park.

pug_

I don't know. I'm not convinced by the PC thing. Remember this is the last sentence of the last show of the last series. Does anyone really believe that they would leave the last gasp of the show with an attempt to be PC.

If there was a need for political correctness why would they wait through an entire 4 years and a miniseries to introduce it? I don't know that it would even occur to them without outside pressure and I'm not aware that there was any.

Honestly I think it was an attempt to leave the God question open and maybe suggest that there might have been more to their God than meets the eye. I just don't see it being no more significant than appeasing it's religious viewers that weren't even complaining in the first place, it's just at too critical a point in the series for that.

sioda

Pure class what can I say loved every bit.

Caprica and Baltars you can see them too to Cavil's frack it

Great ending to the best sci fi ever now to watch it from season 1 again and listen to the brilliant soundtrack

Was that RDM reading the mag at the end??

What name does god like??

TheIrishGrover

the epilogue. Thought it should have ended with that shot of Hera. Other than that I thought it was fantastic. most importantly, I thought it was a satisfying end. Everything that should have been wrapped up was and everything that should have been left grey was (Starbuck, head 6/baltar etc) and a fantastic path from the miniseries right through to the end (The operahouse merge was nice and neat)

I was SO sure that the "Hour" that Adama was going to give up (What was that anyway?) was that he was going to be analyzed/sci-fi CAT scanned for some kind of AI and that he was gonna be revealed as a cylon at the very end, the FINAL reveal ..... until the final flashback to Tigh and Elen (When Adama's in the bog). Thought they were gonna say something like "So, he's willing to be resurrected?" Or something similar.

LOVED.... LOVED Starbuck/Lee's last scene. Loved it. No explanation wanted.

Oh man, and the Adama flyby/Anders guiding the fleet into the sun? The original music? Loved it. Made me nostalgic for the original (Until I remembered it was ****e)


So, overall 9.999. /10 (Remove the epilogue and it's 10/10)



PS. So Badger finally deserves his fancy hat and airs. Mal would be proud

TheIrishGrover

sioda wrote: »

Pure class what can I say loved every bit.

Caprica and Baltars you can see them too to Cavil's frack it

Great ending to the best sci fi ever now to watch it from season 1 again and listen to the brilliant soundtrack

Was that RDM reading the mag at the end??

What name does god like??

Yeah, Loved those scenes

Must get soundtrack too

Yes

Gerald

Derek Coleman

noodler wrote: »

Was there really anything in the show pointing to Christianity other than the fact most of them were white?

Not really in the show but there was a LAST SUPPER photo shoot between season 3 and 4.

I suppose it could be anything. Only Ron Moore knows so if anyone reads him answering that question then please post it on here. But if I never get an explanation I'm just gonna believe that it was meant to be a little teaser at the end to suggest that GOD is a name that people have given this higher power and maybe it doesn't like the term!!

I think it was meant to do what its doing right now and to get us talking about it. One last little mystery to wreck our bleedin heads.....

TheIrishGrover

Vokes wrote: »

Is anyone suprised that dead-Kara and the Head characters weren't explained? Talk about frustrating.

Personally I loved that they didn't. Just left as-is. There's no rational explanation so don't.




NOW WTF do we watch?

Derek Coleman

If anyone gets any knowledge of when the soundtrack will be released then please tell me that too. I am obsessed with the music of BSG. I have a feeling it will be a June release going by previous years.

Nukem

Gave it 2 stars - just didnt provide much closure and think the ending was a bit rushed. Era sue was a good show but wained at times

barnesd

Wasn't mad about it to be honest. Good, not great. I found I like BSG less and less as it continued, awesome from the beginning to ok at the end for me.

MisterAnarchy

Derek Coleman wrote: »

If anyone gets any knowledge of when the soundtrack will be released then please tell me that too. I am obsessed with the music of BSG. I have a feeling it will be a June release going by previous years.

Yes the soundtrack for this episode was absolutely superb.
It was like a mega mix of the best songs throughout the first 3 series.
Alot of my favourite compositions are from the first and second series ;Passacaglia,Wander My Friends,The Shape of Things to Come,Pegasus,Roslin and Adama,Reuniting the Fleet ,One year Later.
They were all used in the finale .
I dont think a tv show has ever had such a good variety of music .
I often listen to the soundtracks to unwind .
Bear Mc Creary is a very talented guy ,I'm sure its only a matter of time before he gets to score a major motion picture.He deserves it.

Derek Coleman

I think Bear McCreary is a genius.
When we see Hera at the end and 'One Year Later' fades in I was thinking to myself "Ah 150,000 years later will be on the soundtrack".

I don't think you can beat 'Lords of Kobol', 'Baltars Dream', 'Prelude to War' from s.2. 'A Distant sadness', 'Precipice', 'Storming New Caprica', 'All along the Watchtower' from s.3.

Actually there's no point even singling out any tracks because I just play it from start to finish. I go asleep to the music. I play it in my car. I have rewatched the part where Kara is Jumping Galactica to Earth 20+ times because the music is brilliant. Along all the Watchtower music with a piano mix. I am hyper just thinking about it.

If you have the ability to look back on episodes then check out the music as Kara is running thru the hallway to stop Lee from flushing Tigh out of the airlock. That is brilliant.

MisterAnarchy

Derek Coleman wrote: »

If you have the ability to look back on episodes then check out the music as Kara is running thru the hallway to stop Lee from flushing Tigh out of the airlock. That is brilliant.

Or when Galactica jumps into New Caprica orbit and "Storming New Caprica" roars into action.
One of my favourite scenes ever.

Derek Coleman

+1.
Galactica falling towards the ground is one of the coolest things I ever seen on tv or film.
And don't forget the camera pulling away from Galactica getting battered by two baseships and the music fading out. And then the Galactica drums roar and Pegasus arrives in the nick of time. "Thank you LEE"

fugazied

Action was great, a couple of things urked me once they arrived on earth. I 'guess' starbuck disappearing was ok, but kind of ridiculous.

The president dying was done well, if slightly dragged out. The way that everyone seperated on arrival was kind of sad.

My favourite part: when the 4 cylons were getting the ressurection recipe and they found out what the indian cylon did and she got choked. Intense scene!!!

MisterAnarchy

Derek Coleman wrote: »

+1.
Galactica falling towards the ground is one of the coolest things I ever seen on tv or film.
And don't forget the camera pulling away from Galactica getting battered by two baseships and the music fading out. And then the Galactica drums roar and Pegasus arrives in the nick of time. "Thank you LEE"

Yip,Epic.

noodler

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Yip,Epic.

Its funny head 6 went the entire 4 series telling Baltar about the one true god and then they mention in the last lines that it doesn't like the term. Had Head six not met her emplyer until after the series finished?

Music wise I am in a Violence and Variations + Someone to Trust phase at the mo. Looking forward to the cd as much as the box set.

Sad Professor

I was very disappointed tbh. After all the praise the finale script received from the actors, the writing just wasn't that good. There were major lapses of logic throughout. And Rymer's usually solid directing failed spectacularly in a few places.

So everyone decides to go on a suicide mission to save a little girl and they leave Admiral Hoshi and President Lamkin to take care of the fleet. What if everyone as expected had died on that crazy-ass mission, what would have happened to the fleet with all its leaders dead? Hoshi is the f**king communications officer and Lamkin is a lawyer, how are they going to outwit the cylons? The fleet would be f**ked.

And why are they saving Hera again? Moore failed to properly explain everyone's sudden motivation for going on a suicide mission to save her. Oh Kara and the final five say she's their only hope for survival. "Oh okay, why didn't you say so, let's all go and die." And President Apollo just drops everything and hops back in the uniform again.

The Roslin flashbacks scenes were just cringe-inducing. The silk sheets, the actor playing her former student, the bed, the wine, it was like something out of a bad 80's tv movie.

I really loved this season, including the last two episodes, but Moore chickened out and gave us a happy ending. It's a testament to just how dark the show was that he had to resort to deus ex machina or divine intervention to give us that happy ending. The natural and right conclusion to the show was a dark one imo, but I guess Moore just couldn't bring himself to write it.

murrayp4

I thought the music was the Star of the episode