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One Day Shutdown-March 30th

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13

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    #62
    mloc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    It seems the SU are just as irresponsible as most other unions in Ireland at the moment. Sorry guys, the money isn't there. Deal with it. What happened happened, and marching around like a bunch of idiots isn't going to help the economy.

    The SU should be ashamed of themselves for this naive, ignorant pseudopolitical populist BS. I'll be breaking the strike, and actively encouraging others to do so.


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    #63
    damselnat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 520 ✭✭✭damselnat


    Does anyone know what the actual story is? Will there be pickets or is just "don't go to college for the day"?
    Either way, if my lectures are on, I'll be there. Oddly enough, I value my education enough to attend


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    #64
    griffdaddy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    mloc wrote: »
    It seems the SU are just as irresponsible as most other unions in Ireland at the moment. Sorry guys, the money isn't there. Deal with it. What happened happened, and marching around like a bunch of idiots isn't going to help the economy.

    The SU should be ashamed of themselves for this naive, ignorant pseudopolitical populist BS. I'll be breaking the strike, and actively encouraging others to do so.
    While i agree with you in relation to this specific action, you can't really just adopt a bend over and take it up the economic hole stance when it comes to these things, otherwise they'll be back for seconds at some stage, regardless of how sloppy they are at that stage.


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    #65
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    El Siglo wrote: »
    There's always a choice, people have gone to college in much worse economic conditions than now and did alright out of it, education for those whom can't fully afford it will not end it'll just make it harder, but this might be an incentive: don't fail, don't do a ridiculous degree. Harsh as it sounds, but speaking as a 'working class' scrounger in college, the heavens aren't going to fall on top of us with fees being brought back in.
    I don't do any of those things, but if fees come in then my continued attendance up here is questionable.
    The amount of part time work I'll have to do will certainly affect the amount of time I have to study, and considering I need at least a 2.1 to continue that's not good.
    This strike should have been a nationwide one, involving more unions in particular: INO, TUI, ASTI, INTO, Garda Representatives Union, ICTU (who aren't joining in according to the news), PDFORRA etc... A strike by students and SIPTU workers in the college isn't going to work, it's not going to make a difference, very simple and if you think I'm wrong wait until the 7th of April to see if this endeveaour has an impact.
    All of these have successfully balloted for strike action
    http://www.asti.ie/budget.htm#strikeaction
    The GRU are a different story all together and striking for them is a much more complex issue. ICTU is not a union, it's the congress of trade unions. PDFORRA has similar confounding issues to the GRU but they have said that they will not step in to do the work of public servents who do strike.


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    #66
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    ICTU have "deferred" the strike.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0325/partnership.html

    Anyone know if SIPTU will be continuing alone? And where does this leave the SU strike?


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    #67
    Tom65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭Tom65


    Breezer wrote: »
    ICTU have "deferred" the strike.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0325/partnership.html

    Anyone know if SIPTU will be continuing alone? And where does this leave the SU strike?

    If I'm not mistaken, SIPTU are part of ICTU, so it has to be postponed presumably?


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    #68
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    Tom65 wrote: »
    If I'm not mistaken, SIPTU are part of ICTU, so it has to be postponed presumably?
    True, but I was wondering would it pursue its own agenda without the support of the congress. I can't see anything on the SIPTU website.


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    #69
    Stabshauptmann
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Stabshauptmann


    bnt wrote:
    It is not supported by an economist.
    33% God wrote: »
    It is supported by other economists though.
    The Economist wrote: »
    Very few. Consensus would definitely be against the strike.

    Names people!

    A)When basing you're argument on what someone else said, it helps to name that person.

    B)bnt, your post is an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy. The strength of an argument is not effected by a persons profession.


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    #70
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    Breezer wrote: »
    True, but I was wondering would it pursue its own agenda without the support of the congress. I can't see anything on the SIPTU website.
    They won't. SIPTU have deferred any action around the National Agreement.
    Kaptain Redeye wrote: »
    Names people!

    A)When basing you're argument on what someone else said, it helps to name that person.
    I was referring to the fact that the unions all employ economists to advise them.


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    #71
    Tayto2000
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Tayto2000


    33% God wrote: »
    I don't do any of those things, but if fees come in then my continued attendance up here is questionable.

    So you'll be dropping out in solidarity then? Fees won't be applied to current students apparently.

    So where does this leave the student strike? 20% not attending classes on Monday is not going to appear very earth shattering...


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    #72
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/unions-to-call-off-protest-day--but-no-budget-deal-1684874.html

    BTW, calling my previous post "an appeal to authority" is a little disingenuous. I don't think you decide something like this on the basis of "authority" alone, but neither can you dismiss "authority" entirely, since an economist is someone who gets trained and paid to look at (and hopefully) understand economics. Do you dismiss medical advice from a doctor on the basis of "appeal to authority", or can you accept that a professional probably knows more, about their specialist topic, than a non-specialist does? Economics is not an "art", where all responses and opinions are equally valid! Yes, there might be exceptions, but as a probability (and yes, I did say probably before), I expect an economist to know more about the economy than I do, just as I expect a doctor to know more about medicine.

    It hardly matters, anyway: the SIPTU strike is probably off, which will make the SU position redundant. If I was taking any of this seriously at all, I would have said a lot more, and backed it up more thoroughly. As it was, I've given this topic all the time it's getting from me, so I'll see you all at lectures on Monday.

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



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    #73
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    Kaptain Redeye wrote: »
    Names people!
    If a professor of economics tells me things over a pint it may not have been told in strict confidence, but it wouldn't necessarily be fair to go telling the world.

    The consensus is that the government have royally f*cked up, but people have yet to accept just how bad it is. We're looking at a deficit of €16,000 per household for this year alone. Ergo we need an extra €16,000 tax per house to continue current expenditure. Simply, that's not going to happen. There has to be huge cuts and very large tax increases or we face the IMF coming in and raping our society. (If the Germans come in, that'll be the corporation tax advantage we have gone, which isn't all that nice either.) We all have to face the reality of a considerable decline in our living standards. The unions dragging their feet and the "I didn't cause this mess I'm not paying for it approach" (aka looking after their own) aren't going to help. Some economists are very public about their views, others are shy and reserved people. The consensus remains the same the unions are not helping.
    33% God wrote: »
    I was referring to the fact that the unions all employ economists to advise them.
    The quality of economist that unions hire leaves a lot to be desired tbh. Just as you might reasonably have your doubts about what an economist from a bank has to say, have your doubts about what economists from a union says. They tend to really be to the far left of the academic consensus. I'm not talking about being to the left with regards to what's fair -- that's grand -- I'm talking about being to the left with regards to what works. For example, ICTU's economist thinks we need a Keynesian stimulus, despite the overwhelming evidence that they don't work and the reality that we don't have the reserves to do it. Siptu's head of research appears to be a historian, and again over-emphasises Keynesianism. The government can't buy its way out of trouble lads. It's also the union economists who complain that wages aren't keeping up with inflation rather than productivity, which is a huge problem.


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    #74
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    Tayto2000 wrote: »
    So you'll be dropping out in solidarity then? Fees won't be applied to current students apparently.

    So where does this leave the student strike? 20% not attending classes on Monday is not going to appear very earth shattering...
    Oh well that's fine then... unless you're someone who's not already here.


    I don't know what the SU will do. The unions won't take any action right now over the national agreement, but the SU's action was never about that.


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    #75
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    The Economist wrote: »
    We all have to face the reality of a considerable decline in our living standards. The unions dragging their feet and the "I didn't cause this mess I'm not paying for it approach" (aka looking after their own) aren't going to help. Some economists are very public about their views, others are shy and reserved people. The consensus remains the same the unions are not helping.
    The unions haven't said that. They have said that they recognise that everyone will have to pitch in, they just feel that that should apply to those at the top also.


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    #76
    passive
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭passive


    Balls... So I'll be inadvertently taking part in the gob****ey "strike from having a service provided for you" event by working next Monday, since classes are going ahead...

    *sighs*


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    #77
    Time Magazine
    Registered Users Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    33% God wrote: »
    The unions haven't said that. They have said that they recognise that everyone will have to pitch in, they just feel that that should apply to those at the top also.
    You say that as if the top haven't been hit by this. They will be hit with the highest tax increase in the budget soon to come. They've also taken the biggest hit as % of their wealth. Anyone whose pensions were based on shares on the ISEQ (which is pretty much anyone on more than €50,000) has seen an 80% decline in two years. That's a big blow.


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    #78
    Tayto2000
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Tayto2000


    33% God wrote: »
    Oh well that's fine then... unless you're someone who's not already here.

    Well, just imagine how the class of '95 felt...


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    #79
    rantyface
    Registered Users Posts: 496 ✭✭rantyface


    muffinman wrote: »
    It's the other people's fault for not voting.. All 22000 students had the right to vote on the referendum, and if they didn't it's their own fault. Maybe the 17000 people would have voted no to this ridiculous strike, but they didn't, and that's democracy..

    I voted no, but there was no point voting at all in retrospect, because no matter what the outcome was I would have gone to my lectures and labs. That is probably why people who wanted to strike voted yes, and a lot of people who didn't want to strike didn't vote.Anyway, at the end of the day, the referendum made no difference because we're not obliged to do what the union votes for, since it's not a real union, and the strike will make no difference because nobody cares if we strike or not. We'd actually be saving the lecturers time and effort rather than causing them to lose money through lost productivity, like a real strike would. Most of my lecturers would rather we never came in so they could just get on with their research!I think on Monday we'll see that the wasters and hacks aren't in lectures, as usual.


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    #80
    simonrooneyzaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭simonrooneyzaga


    siptu not striking -> Classes on this monday -> student union strike off.

    Surely this is the case now?


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    #81
    damselnat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 520 ✭✭✭damselnat


    Tayto2000 wrote: »
    20% not attending classes on Monday is not going to appear very earth shattering...

    So attendance for my lectures won't change then? Mm, what an effective strike


    What bothers me about the fees is the fact that they will not raise revenue now, and won't for several years. The government seem to be justifying them by saying we need to raise money and cut back NOW.....so introducing fees in the future does nothing for them NOW.....and before I get picked up, yes, they probably will need the money from the fees when they would get them, in the future, but it seems to me like they are lumping them in now with everything else (tax increases, pay cuts etc), which imo is not right and is misleading (but then, that's politics for ya I guess)


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    #82
    delta_bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭delta_bravo


    simonrooneyzaga wrote: »
    siptu not striking -> Classes on this monday -> student union strike off.

    Surely this is the case now?

    Classes will be on most likely, but who knows about the SU


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    #83
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    and before I get picked up, yes, they probably will need the money from the fees when they would get them, in the future, but it seems to me like they are lumping them in now with everything else (tax increases, pay cuts etc), which imo is not right and is misleading (but then, that's politics for ya I guess)

    The government is borrowing one quarter of its expenditure. This cannot continue. Nobody will lend to us unless there is a clear plan for bringing income and expenditure into balance and proposals that payoff in a year or two are central to this.


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    #84
    mad lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭mad lad


    siptu not striking -> Classes on this monday -> student union strike off
    You'd think so. UCDSU has decided to still go a head with a rally by the lake and a gig in the bar that night. The last lakeside rally was called off after 5 mins because nobody showed up.

    Hardly a shutdown by any stretch of the imagination.


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    #85
    delta_bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭delta_bravo


    mad lad wrote: »
    You'd think so. UCDSU has decided to still go a head with a rally by the lake and a gig in the bar that night.


    Ah yeah, lets show Batt by catching a few rays by the lake and getting wasted in the bar. Solidarity!


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    #86
    delta_bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭delta_bravo


    Heard a funny one there. The Department of Transport on Kildare St. was occupied yesterday by a bunch of students protesting for a few hours. Gardai confiscated their whistles after a guide dog used by a receptionist in the office went crazy with all the noise. Im sure the visually impaired worker didnt enjoy it, or the dog. Clear police brutality ;)


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    #87
    mad lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭mad lad


    That occupation was organised by USI and was supposed go on overnight. After an hour, the Gardai arrived in numbers and asked them to leave. USI voluntarily upped and left.

    Damn the Gardai, throwing a spanner in the works by asking them to leave- the tactical geniuses.

    Understandably the media never reported it and students know nothing about it. Is it any wonder fees are coming back in?


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    #88
    mloc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭mloc


    So the USI are a bunch of scumbag socialist delinquints now? There's a suprise.


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    #89
    mad lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 127 ✭✭mad lad


    Inept, yes. Socialist delinquents? Hardly.


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    #90
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    So far today I've had two lectures, and both lecturers were asked about Monday. Both replied that their lectures would be going ahead as normal. Anyone going to stop me attending?

    Death has this much to be said for it:
    You don’t have to get out of bed for it.
    Wherever you happen to be
    They bring it to you—free.

    — Kingsley Amis



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    #91
    WeeBushy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    Unfortunately I will be on work placements so will not be able to ignore this childish and hypocritical strike. They have a problem with the reintroduction of fees as they see third-level education as a right so they flagrantly abuse and demean this right by purposely not attending what they are so forcefully trying to "keep available to everyone". Pathetic.


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