To Strike or Not to Strike

Well it would take some effort to get us to Zimbabwe now in all fairness..
We would have to take some pain yes in terms of our punt.
Unless of course we revert to the tie with sterling!
There we solve the Newry problem aswell.
What more could you want!?!

jonsnow

Fair play to the one third of IMPACT workers who voted against a totally outrageous and counterproductive strike.never thought Id see the day.

SectionF

Speaking of economic civil war... in America as in Ireland. So-called privileged workers targeted by the media, but for once the media gets its comeuppance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-nLS6FJtSM

(With apologies if already posted).

SeaFields

The last thing this country needs is for any potential investors across the globe to turn on a news channel and see Irish workers marching with pickets.

It has said an awful lot too that Labour have come out and saying the striking isn't in our best interests.

As for the unions grievances there isn't a private company in the world that would continue to trade at the loss our government is working with and not demand paycuts/job cuts from their employees. Perhaps the public sectors unions should be given the choice - ye either take the pension levy or redundancies.

Luisella

Why to take part the national strike? Because that's the first step:

1. Union sanctioned national strike
2. Two weeks+ of wildcat strikes ( the unions will turn to the side of the employers at this point, as in May '68 )
3. Workers occupation of the largest industries/companies ( taking the largest ones will have a domino effect )

Question: am I entitled to go on strike if my company ( Microsoft ) has not been served the 7-day notice? From what I read it seems not all of them got it.

Related Link: The Beginning of an Era

maggy_thatcher

Luisella wrote: »

Why to take part the national strike? Because that's the first step:

1. Union sanctioned national strike
2. Two weeks+ of wildcat strikes ( the unions will turn to the side of the employers at this point, as in May '68 )
3. Workers occupation of the largest industries/companies ( taking the largest ones will have a domino effect )

Question: am I entitled to go on strike if my company ( Microsoft ) has not been served the 7-day notice? From what I read it seems not all of them got it.

Related Link: The Beginning of an Era

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here? You work for a global multinational company that is not party to anything the national strike is supposedly about but still want to strike, and then go and perform wildcat strikes (for which you can be legitimately fired), followed by occupation of the largest industries/companies? After (2) you'd be fired, so (3) wouldn't be possible -- you'd be trespassing on private property.

If enough of you did that in Microsoft, I'd just assume they'd pull out of Ireland altogether, resulting in yet another significant blow to our economy. If that's your aim, why?

ckristo2

It looks as if the strike may be called off which can be looked at in 3 ways:
1.Good. The strike option should be only be used as a last resort.
2. Cowen and IBEC have extended the olive branch to ICTU. Does this mean that the threat of a strike is the only language the Government/Employers understand?
3. Is Cowen going to make a real effort next week to ensure that it's the rich who pay and not the poor.

ckristo2

ckristo2 wrote: »

2. Cowen and IBEC have extended the olive branch to ICTU. Does this mean that the threat of a strike is the only language the Government/Employers understand?

No.
It's called pragmatism.
Both sides were probably looking for an out at this stage.
The government hasn't conceded anything and aswell as that the strike was looking exceedingly silly happening BEFORE the emergency budget.

3. Is Cowen going to make a real effort next week to ensure that it's the rich who pay and not the poor.

As has been pointed out thousands of times,theres not enough lolly in rich peoples pockets to even make the slightest dent in the hole that is our public finances [my earlier extreme measures are unlikely to be implimented ].
So you are just going to have to get used to the fact that if you want services then EVERYBODY has to pay for them or they won't be there.
Part payment is effeciency which means cutting the bloat from the PS/CS and getting rid of the jobs for the boys[and girls] that involve passing the tea pot and doing nothing worthwhile.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

grahamo

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish here? You work for a global multinational company that is not party to anything the national strike is supposedly about but still want to strike, and then go and perform wildcat strikes (for which you can be legitimately fired), followed by occupation of the largest industries/companies? After (2) you'd be fired, so (3) wouldn't be possible -- you'd be trespassing on private property.

If enough of you did that in Microsoft, I'd just assume they'd pull out of Ireland altogether, resulting in yet another significant blow to our economy. If that's your aim, why?

Its not all about just the public sector, There are unionised private sector companies that have ripped up the national pay deal.

oscarBravo

The national pay deal is obsolete. Deal with it.

Sleepy

During the week I overheard a bunch of public sector workers whinging across their office about the result of the IMPACT ballot because they were looking forward to taking a day off...

I'll have no qualms about crossing picket lines.

grahamo

oscarBravo wrote: »

The national pay deal is obsolete. Deal with it.

I am dealing with it. I voted to STRIKE!:)

oscarBravo

grahamo wrote: »

I am dealing with it. I voted to STRIKE!:)

Excellent plan. That'll sort out the public finances in no time.

Tell me, how many days of all-out strikes do you reckon it will take to fill the several-billion-euro exchequer hole? How much more striking will be required to produce enough money to deliver payrises on top of that?

Dob74

SectionF wrote: »

Speaking of economic civil war... in America as in Ireland. So-called privileged workers targeted by the media, but for once the media gets its comeuppance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-nLS6FJtSM

(With apologies if already posted).

Excellant, I am sick of the UAW being blamed for the failure of the us auto industry.
When the top execs fly into washington in private jets to beg for for money.
Who has has thier head up there as$? The union or the ceo(who earn over 12 mil each a year)
You can run a company into the ground and still get well paid for it.
Much the same as this country.

grahamo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Excellent plan. That'll sort out the public finances in no time.

Whether the middle class, twenty something, studenty types on here like it or not it is a constitutional right to be a union member. The right to strike goes with this.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Tell me, how many days of all-out strikes do you reckon it will take to fill the several-billion-euro exchequer hole? How much more striking will be required to produce enough money to deliver payrises on top of that?

In my opinion the working man has been hit with the brunt of the governments attempts to claw back the deficit they created. They will more than likely be hit hardest in the coming mini-budget along with children and pensioners. Meanwhile, Bankers are still walking away with millions in bonuses they certainly didn't earn. Is this fair?How far do they think they can push us without provoking a reaction?
As for Strike I'll strike for as long as it takes. This post certainly won't impress the middle class students with feck all life experience who like to come on here and rant that the PAYE sector should be making all the sacrifices by taking pay cuts and paying more tax, but I don't really care for opinionated students.

sovtek

Sand wrote: »

Strikes always lead to a worse situation - as bad as the economic situation is, it wont be made any better by the losses and disruption caused by strike activity.

I guess that's why every benefit you get as an employee was gained by that exact means.

maggy_thatcher

sovtek wrote: »

I guess that's why every benefit you get as an employee was gained by that exact means.

Tell that to the machinists at Boeing...they came off a lot worse because of the strike, while at the same time substantially delaying the 787 program. The only people who gained from the whole affair was Airbus!

Dr Galen

Meanwhile, Bankers are still walking away with millions in bonuses they certainly didn't earn.

don't buy into the populist nonsense being spouted by the media and do a big of digging yourself. Many bonuses in the financial and other sectors are pre-agreed, in fact in many large financial institutions the culture of guaranteed bonuses exists and is written into the T&C's of contracts. It's not as simple as just taking away the money. The people receiving the bonus often have a legal entitlement to the cash and that can't just be torn up and forgotten about.

I'm not saying thats right, but its how it is, the reality of the situation in many cases.

As for Strike I'll strike for as long as it takes. This post certainly won't impress the middle class students with feck all life experience who like to come on here and rant that the PAYE sector should be making all the sacrifices by taking pay cuts and paying more tax, but I don't really care for opinionated students.

I'm certainly not one of the group you mention, I've worked in both the public and private sectors and have plenty of life experience, but I totally disagree with the strike. It would have achieved nothing other than to further mess things up. I'm fully aware that things like the pension levy aren't being administered fairly and have total sympathy with those workers. Like you I'm also very angry at how FF and their buddies seem to have messed things up for us all, but the strike was not the way forward.

Simply put, there is no money. We need to make cuts and taxes need to rise. IMHO taxes should never have been cut to the levels there currently are at,and too many people are exempt from tax altogether as well. Even with a 2% rise in both rates of tax we'll still be a pretty low income tax economy. At this stage it's gettin close to the last chance saloon, and anyone, be they in a union or otherwise needs to wake up realise that otherwise we're all fecked.

oscarBravo

grahamo wrote: »

Whether the middle class, twenty something, studenty types on here like it or not it is a constitutional right to be a union member. The right to strike goes with this.

Yes, it does. You have the right to do all sorts of stupid things but that doesn't make them any cleverer.

In my opinion the working man has been hit with the brunt of the governments attempts to claw back the deficit they created. They will more than likely be hit hardest in the coming mini-budget along with children and pensioners. Meanwhile, Bankers are still walking away with millions in bonuses they certainly didn't earn. Is this fair?How far do they think they can push us without provoking a reaction?
As for Strike I'll strike for as long as it takes. This post certainly won't impress the middle class students with feck all life experience who like to come on here and rant that the PAYE sector should be making all the sacrifices by taking pay cuts and paying more tax, but I don't really care for opinionated students.

Thank you for sharing. I'm still waiting for you to explain how an all-out strike will magically generate the billions of euro required to repair the tattered remnants of our economy.

Andrew H

I for one voted for the strike as I am sick of the FF goverment constantly looking after their buddies and targeting the easiest people in our communities to cover up for their mistakes. So far they have targeted Old Age Pensioners, the Health Service is one of the worst in Europe and is clearly been steered towards private health care, teenage girls have been refused the cancer vacination, pupils are been taught in overcrowded falling down class rooms etc..

I am a Clerical Officer and I was earning 30,000 p.a. before I got hit with the 1% levy and now another 3% is been deducted from my wages. If this is were the deductions stop I have no problem in accepting my paycuts but we have yet another mini budget coming up again and then the annual budget in December. At the end of the day I still have to pay my mortgage, electricity, child care, groceries etc. and at this rate there will be a lot of safe public servants on the homeless list & social housing lists.

I knew at the end of the day that our Unions would sell us out and look after their own interests but I felt as a PAYE worker that I should try and make a stand.

Dr Galen

and what did you hope to achieve by striking? and i ask this seriously btw

grahamo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yes, it does. You have the right to do all sorts of stupid things but that doesn't make them any cleverer. Thank you for sharing. I'm still waiting for you to explain how an all-out strike will magically generate the billions of euro required to repair the tattered remnants of our economy.

It won't!, but maybe it will make the government think twice before they start stomping on the easy targets and the vulnerable in the mini-budget.
I believe everyone should pay their way in this world but its got to be done fairly.

Andrew H

I knew that there would not be a strike as the 3% levy had already been brought in and has been noted in this thread the unions are only looking out for their own interests. But I wanted the FF goverment to take note that they can only push people so far and I felt this was the best way to show it.

We all know the economy is fecked and I am more than wiling to play my part in helping us get back on the road to recovery but it would be nice to see the high earners been targeted in a fairer way.

oscarBravo

grahamo wrote: »

It won't!, but maybe it will make the government think twice before they start stomping on the easy targets and the vulnerable in the mini-budget.

You (and you're far from alone in this) seem to underestimate the sheer magnitude of the problem we're facing here.

The government will have to stomp on everyone. It's not going to be fun. But we're way beyond having a choice in the matter.

Dr Galen

Andrew H wrote: »

I knew that there would not be a strike as the 3% levy had already been brought in and has been noted in this thread the unions are only looking out for their own interests. But I wanted the FF goverment to take note that they can only push people so far and I felt this was the best way to show it.

We all know the economy is fecked and I am more than wiling to play my part in helping us get back on the road to recovery but it would be nice to see the high earners been targeted in a fairer way.

this is more populist nonsense, I've taken the following from a newspaper article recently, but you can get the figures direct from the revenue website if you look

Just 6 per cent of the workforce earn more than €100,000 a year, yet they contribute 47 per cent of the tax take

The top 1 per cent of earners on €200,000 or over contribute 21 per cent of the total tax take.

In this country workers don’t pay any tax, PRSI or the income levy if they earn less than €18,000. By contrast, in Britain all income above €6,860 is subject to income tax at 20 per cent. Most EU countries follow the British example and bring workers into the tax net at a much lower income threshold than in Ireland.

so you see, the higher earners actully do pay their fair share according to these figures. Its actually some of the lower paid that we need to include in the tax net. Sure there is room for the people at the top to pay a bit more, but again don't believe everything you hear about "de fatcats"

sovtek

oscarBravo wrote: »

The government will have to stomp on everyone. It's not going to be fun. But we're way beyond having a choice in the matter.

The government isn't stomping on everyone. It's giving billions to people that are already fabulously wealthy and taking it out of the PAYE workers hide.
This country should grind to a halt much less call a one day strike!

sovtek

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yes, it does. You have the right to do all sorts of stupid things but that doesn't make them any cleverer. Thank you for sharing. I'm still waiting for you to explain how an all-out strike will magically generate the billions of euro required to repair the tattered remnants of our economy.

Billions magically appeared for bankers so why shouldn't they to to actually kick start the economy by bailing out PAYE workers...especially people who have lost their homes or their jobs.

oscarBravo

sovtek wrote: »

It's giving billions to people that are already fabulously wealthy...

It is? Who are they?

This country should grind to a halt much less call a one day strike!

Good call. Everyone should stop working for, ooh let's say five years. That'll show those fat cats.

Dr Galen

sovtek wrote: »

The government isn't stomping on everyone. It's giving billions to people that are already fabulously wealthy and taking it out of the PAYE workers hide.
This country should grind to a halt much less call a one day strike!

its not giving the money to an individual, its used it to bail out the banks. Certainly not a great option, but do you realise the kind of repercussions that a run on an Irish bank would have for the country as a whole?

you suggest bringing the country to a halt.........well say I'm Mr Hewlett or Mr Packard and 2 weeks ago I just announced 500 jobs for Leixlip, then I see that, what you think I'm going to do next time I have to decide where to invest millions of dollars? or what if I'm the CEO of an Irish company about to do a big deal in the States, create a few hundred jobs in my place in Cork and I can't get out of the fecking country to sign the contract because the airports been shut down by strikes.

The unions would be much better off organising a mass rally some Sunday, get thousands out onto the streets to show dissatisfaction with the government etc. That would have the effect of showing those in power the feeling on the ground and may even force the opposition into action, force and election, but not affect services