Wimmin jokes - funny or fallacy?

ntlbell

shellyboo wrote: »

I haven't come across it actually... but, in a rare move, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Must be my hormones.

You have never heard any woman in your entire life blame a bad mood or anything on a period ever?

wow.

jellie

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not, but if a woman keeps blaming something on X,Y,Z

don't be shocked that a man starts to assume XYZ if the XYZ is constant?

that's called learning.

so youre saying that its ok to accuse a stressed out/angry woman of being hormonal because youve seen 1 or 2 women being hormonal at some stage or another?

so if i see a stressed out man being angry i can say "aw not getting any?" cause ive known of 1 or 2 men to be crazy after long periods of time without sex?

if i said that it would come across as bitchy or vicious, i dont see how commenting on a womans time of the month is any different.

shellyboo

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not, but if a woman keeps blaming something on X,Y,Z

don't be shocked that a man starts to assume XYZ if the XYZ is constant?

that's called learning.

Yes, but giving out that women use periods as an excuse and then demeaning someone on the basis that they have periods... that's called hypocrisy. Either it matters, or it doesn't. If you think a period is an excuse to make fun of a woman, then surely it's legitimate for her to use it as an excuse too?

You can't have it all ways. Either it matters, or it doesn't.

ntlbell wrote: »

You have never heard any woman in your entire life blame a bad mood or anything on a period ever?

wow.

Blaming a bad mood on a period is not an excuse, it is a fact. You try having someone punch you in the gut every five minutes and see how cheerful you are. That's not being inflammatory, that is the truth. I am in pain, and that pain is making me cranky right now this minute. But look, I even had a little joke with you above there with the hormones thing, see?! I'm trying

That's not the same as using a period as an excuse to BEHAVE badly. Yes, I am in a **** mood, but I'm not behaving badly to anyone. See the difference?

ntlbell

sar84 wrote: »

so youre saying that its ok to accuse a stressed out/angry woman of being hormonal because youve seen 1 or 2 women being hormonal at some stage or another?

No,

Where did I say that.

Lets take a married couple as an example.

Lets say every last week of every month she goes a bit bonkers, starts biting his head off for whatever reason.

If this happens CONSISTENTLY then the guy is learning something no?

not because he seen it happen once or twice because it's consistent for that week?

sar84 wrote: »

so if i see a stressed out man being angry i can say "aw not getting any?" cause ive known of 1 or 2 men to be crazy after long periods of time without sex?

A lot of women do. a lot of the time they're right.

Dragan

Eh....i can't really see how the last string of posts works into the topic?

Or maybe i am missing something?

ntlbell

shellyboo wrote: »

Yes, but giving out that women use periods as an excuse and then demeaning someone on the basis that they have periods... that's called hypocrisy. Either it matters, or it doesn't. If you think a period is an excuse to make fun of a woman, then surely it's legitimate for her to use it as an excuse too?

You can't have it all ways. Either it matters, or it doesn't.

I don't think it's an excuse if it doesn't matter then don't use it as an excuse, if you do, don't be shocked if someone then mentions it?

this isn't complicated like.

shellyboo wrote: »

Blaming a bad mood on a period is not an excuse, it is a fact. You try having someone punch you in the gut every five minutes and see how cheerful you are. That's not being inflammatory, that is the truth. I am in pain, and that pain is making me cranky right now this minute. But look, I even had a little joke with you above there with the hormones thing, see?! I'm trying

That's not the same as using a period as an excuse to BEHAVE badly. Yes, I am in a **** mood, but I'm not behaving badly to anyone. See the difference?

I understand how painful it can be my partner suffers very badly and as i said if it was us men that had to put up with it you would never hear the end of it in fact i think most of us men would use it as a week to be spoilt like our man flu

g'em

Enough.

This is not a thread about women using PM as an excuse or a discussion about the validity of a woman's performance/ abilities at varying stages of her hormonal cycle. RE-READ the thread title and discuss the topic at hand.

Dragan - report posts, don't comment on them in-thread.

jellie

ntlbell wrote: »

No,

Where did I say that.

i felt it was implied

ntlbell wrote: »

Lets take a married couple as an example.

Lets say every last week of every month she goes a bit bonkers, starts biting his head off for whatever reason.

If this happens CONSISTENTLY then the guy is learning something no?

not because he seen it happen once or twice because it's consistent for that week?

yes, consistent for that particular woman. if he sees HER getting narky its a fair assumption.

i generally get upset very easily about nothing about 3 days before my period (& its not a public thing, ill go home & bawl into my pillow about nothing if i feel the need - Ok im sounding a bit insane but anyway..). my ex figured this out after awhile, and knew what was wrong with me & when i was getting upset hed gently ask me "emm is it that time of the month?" - not in a mocking way, in a making me see sense way. theres a difference. but that doesnt mean its ok for him to ask every woman he sees getting upset if its that time of the month.

ntlbell wrote: »

A lot of women do. a lot of the time they're right.

i can honestly say ive never heard a woman say that to a man. ever. i mightve heard men say it, but never a woman.

jellie

sorry, posted before i saw g'ems post.

Dragan

g'em wrote: »

Dragan - report posts, don't comment on them in-thread.

Apologies, was more seeking clarification than anything.

ntlbell

Dragan wrote: »

Apologies, was more seeking clarification than anything.

It's getting a tad hard to have the discussion because any road that has been taken is deemed to be off the original topic.

part of why men make these hilarious jokes is an important part of the discussion I feel.

Are they funny or not is really a thread of.

"i find them hilarious cause i don't take myself to serious"

"i find them demeaning to women blah blah"

and anything away from this will be shutdown.

If this is the case I'm at a loss as to why the thread was started

g'em

ntlbell banned for a week: back-seat modding, OT posting, ignoring Mod instruction...

Nevyn

Using a person's gender make them lesser in their eyes and in the eyes of others is not acceptable esp in a work environment.

I am a feminist, I do have a sense of humor, a wicked sense of humor which anyone
who knows me will attest to. I don't think that being a feminist is depressing or about
struggling constantly against oppression it is also ( or at least it should be ) about
celebration of all the freedoms we have and what we can do.

We should celebrate such things to remind us of them and so that we keep moving
forward. One of the regular blog sites I read has feminist happy hour cocktail get
together, now that sounds like fun.

ps. thanks mods for putting this thread back on track about the unacceptability of
sexist put downs rahter then having ago at women who suffer pms.

Dragan

Thaedydal wrote: »

I am a feminist, I do have a sense of humour, a wicked sense of humour which anyone
who knows me will attest to. I don't think that being a feminst is depressing or about
struggling constantly against oppression it is also ( or at least it should be ) about
celebration of all the freedoms we have and what we can do.

We should celebrate such things to remind us of them and so that we keep moving
forward. One of the regular blog sites I read has feminist happy hour cocktail get
together, now that sounds like fun.

ps. thanks mods for putting this thread back on track about the unacceptability of
sexist put downs rahter then having ago at women who suffer pms.

I put a lot of store in someone's sense of humour. I think it is one of the purest things about us, and when something we are involved in or interested in begins to impact that we really need to look at why that is happening.

I have always felt it is very important to be able to poke fun at things, even those things that are very important to us.

WindSock

Dragan wrote: »

I put a lot of store in someone's sense of humour. I think it is one of the purest things about us, and when something we are involved in or interested in begins to impact that we really need to look at why that is happening.

I have always felt it is very important to be able to poke fun at things, even those things that are very important to us.

Sense of humour is always a good thing, but I don't find it particularly funny when my anger is made feel like its invalid because it's my 'time of the month'. that line is so old and rarely funny.

Puddleduck

I think it depends on how its used. If its used by friends in a joking way then thats fair enough, if all understand that thats all it is. However if it was used in work I think its very unproffesional. Regardless of whether it is that time of the month is shouldnt be used to undermine you and your position.

Nevyn

IF there is one thing I hate it's the 'lighten up, Luv" attitude which can be used to
dimiss a person even more so when they say that a smart arsed comment is out of line.

Humour is often used to dismiss and degrad a person and those types of jokes can be
frankly 'insidious' and leave women either feeling they have to be one of the lads or
else they have to be the remote and aloof and then get called ice maidens.

That means they are having how they can be in the work environment limited,
which is taking away their choices.

I am well able to give and take humour wise and will often go that step to far
to prove a point. I had it happen in one of my jobs, the lads on the team were
commenting on how in the clean room suits you could tell by the walk of the
female tech and engineers who was on the rag and how they should wear bagger
clean suits for that time of the month and how they could be red;
but I turned it around about how all the lads liked the slim fitting suits to show of their gym
bods by little did they know it men we could all see their full on erections or semis in them,
I was reported for sexual harassment by the wise ass who started it.

So some days you just can't win and it's better if men stopped making comments
about the female cycle which they don't have any actual experience of.

Yes we have come along way, it was amazing to be watching 'Life on Mars' and see
what type of behaviour was permissible in the 70s and what is not on now.

How did those changes happen ? By women and men saying that such comments
and carry on were not acceptable, which is how us women got the vote, jobs, education,
the right to keep working after marriage, maternity leave, access to contraception,
free smear tests and we all need to keep moving forward and help make the changes
that need to happen happen. Be the change you want to see in your world.

Dragan

WindSock wrote: »

Sense of humour is always a good thing, but I don't find it particularly funny when my anger is made feel like its invalid because it's my 'time of the month'. that line is so old and rarely funny.

I have heard plenty of girls refer to other girls emotional moments as being "that time of the month", so once again is this something that is being complained about by some women but perpetuated by others?

Just like all things, yes.

Nevyn

WindSock wrote: »

Sense of humour is always a good thing, but I don't find it particularly funny when my anger is made feel like its invalid because it's my 'time of the month'. that line is so old and rarely funny.

Well women are not meant to get angry, it's unladylike.
That idea still holds and if a woman is loosing the run of herself and is unladylike
and is angry then she mustn't be able to help her self there fore it must be
something beyond her control there for it's her hormones.

Poor women can't even control themselves. :mad:
That is the under lying message which such 'jokes' give.

Men can get angry and storm and use that anger in a constructive manner
and it is considered acceptable, kick arse and taking names but if a woman
does it then she is on the red war path.

It is an unacceptable double standard.

g'em the ability to reconsider your position when there is new data and change your mind
is a good thing, it is an assets it mean you are not stuck or letting your 'ego' dictate
that changing your mind is weak.
Tbh it's a strength being able to review the situation and not be ego entrenched.

Yes Dragan women can be misogynists too even unknowingly when they make those
comments they are perpetuating the myth and undermining even themselves.

Dragan

Thaedydal wrote: »

g'em the ability to reconsider your position when there is new data and change your mind
is a good thing, it is an assets it mean you are not stuck or letting your 'ego' dictate
that changing your mind is weak.
Tbh it's a strength being able to review the situation and not be ego entrenched..

One of the most important lines in the whole thread i think. +1

WindSock

Dragan wrote: »

I have heard plenty of girls refer to other girls emotional moments as being "that time of the month", so once again is this something that is being complained about by some women but perpetuated by others?

Just like all things, yes.

The girls who are perpetuating it, some may be doing it out of a sense of irony. Just like when black people call each other n-gger. Others are perhaps saying it from it being a learned line that has become an everyday use from hearing it so much. It has crept into the female psyche through over use, but when you sit down and take it apart as a woman, you will see that we are susceptible to being pissed off at any time of the cycle. Either way, hormones or not, it is never ever the right thing to say in a professional work environment. I can just imagine what it was like for Silverfish to have to put up with that crap.

Nevyn

It's either a learned line or else it's self defense, away of saying see i have a sense of humour see I am rational and sane I am not like her, I am not at the mercy of my horrormoans". Which is standing up for her self by putting another woman down.

Davei141

bluewolf wrote: »

I haven't come across those type of comments irl that much so I can't say much about it, but on boards yeah there's a lot of that tastless lacking in humour, "humour". The thing is, there's also a lot of "well it's hard being a woman haha mood swings" and blaming everything on hormones and sure isn't it grand to act like a psycho once a month because that's what women do.
I really don't think that's helping anyone either.

I haven't got through the whole thread but this part i agree 100% with. Going by boards for every bloke making the pfft women type of jokes there is also a girl excusing something out of order they did with the PMS excuse. The majority i believe don't act psycho at all at any time it's the just the more vocal minority who are actually just plain crazy/idiotic regardless of gender are more likely to shout their excuses and blame PMS/Just being a lad for everything they ever done wrong. Its a catch 22.

I suppose you could add in the constant men moaning "oh I just don't understand women", which some might find easier to write off as just being hormonal, so they don't need to try understand anything about "women" [as opposed to the specific individual in question :rolleyes: ] anymore.

Agree also. Some blokes act like cunt's to women and are then shocked they had the audacity to call them on it. The "women are crazy" thing is also a convenient excuse for the minority who treat women like crap.

WindSock

brianthebard wrote: »

Tbh saying that a woman is acting in a certain way becuase of hormones, whether in jest or seriously, doesn't seem to me to be all that far away from the quackery of female hysteria, an until recently common diagnosis for all this perceived to be bad or wrong or whatever about women. And from there its about half a step to make the assumption that because women are hormonal/hysterical they have no control over their minds.

At least the doctors diagnosing it could get their jollies at the time.

Nevyn

The diagnosis of female hysteria was used for men to divorce thier wives in Victorian/Edwardian England.

The Cure for female hysteria was a hysterectomy to have the womb removed and then
as she could not bear her husband a child or any more children he could set her aside,
get a divorce and marry a new wife.

Dragan

Thaedydal wrote: »

The diagnosis of female hysteria was used for men to divorce thier wives in Victorian/Edwardian England.

The Cure for female hysteria was a hysterectomy to have the womb removed and then
as she could not bear her husband a child or any more children he could set her aside,
get a divorce and marry a new wife.

The olden days scare the living crap out of me to be honest.

WindSock

Dragan wrote: »

The olden days scare the living crap out of me to be honest.

Yeah. I'm wondering if 100 years ago was the worst time for women in the western world. No wonder there were huge suffragette movements. I wonder what our great grandchildren will say when they are looking back to our times...'God i cant believe people used to think it's acceptable to fob off your emotions on your monthlys' :pac:

lemon_sherbert

Generally,where something is witty, ironic or insightful, I will think it is funny. The problem with 'wimmins' humour IMO, is that is lazy generalisation. More than that, a lot of the time, a so-called joke is in fact a veiled insult, prejudice made palatable using humour. While I appreciate the need to be able to laugh at yourself, honestly, I rarely find that kind of insulting humour funny.

The jokes are more prevalent than I would like (though I will admit maybe I'm just noticing them in particular). It's lazy humour made by people who aren't witty enough to come up with anything better. I do think though, a lot of the time people don't think when they make the jokes, it's due to public perception that these jokes are funny or socially acceptable.

LightningBolt

I think anything is fair game when in a group of people and pretty much all my social group is the exact same. However it's bull**** for blokes to use "time of the month" as a retort during a work argument, meeting etc to make a point or disregard a female viewpoint just like women using the same excuse to do less work, use it as an excuse for a poorer quality of work etc.

metaoblivia

I generally find jokes about women's hormones at best annoying and at worst woefully ignorant. IRL, I can't think of any scenario where it's been said to me recently, but I notice an awful lot of it on the internet. If it's truly used in a humorous way, then fine, but more often than not, it's used to dismiss a viewpoint or invalidate an emotion and that's irksome.
I also think it's way over-played. I have a few friends who have very painful physical symptoms, but I don't know anyone who becomes an emotional wreck. If they do, they keep it out of their professional/public life and leave it at home.