Is The Writing Now On The Wall For Newcastle United

Charlie

Simply put, do people think this is the beginning of the end for Newcastle.

It breaks my heart as a fan, but I cannot see any way out of this horrendous mess we are now in. We have probably the toughest run in of all the relegation candidates, and one of the poorest squads (in terms of fight) for it. Coupled with the fact that we have no manager, it leaves me to conclude that it will Championship football for us next season.

The problem is though, should we be relegated, it's likely that things will only get worse by tenfold. Mike Ashley certainly won't sell at a loss, so we'll be condemned to him and his stooges going forward. We will be lumbered with horrible cloggers like Butt, Geremi, Ameobi, Smith, Cacapa on massive wages, while any quality like Bassong, Martins, and Gutierez will be picked up for scrap.

I really do hope I am wrong, but I just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Bobalicious93

Well looking at their remaining fixtures:

4/4/09 Chelsea (H)
11/4/09 Stoke (A)
18/4/09 Spurs (A)
27/4/09 Portsmouth (H)
2/5/09 Liverpool (A)
9/5/09 Boro (H)
16/5/09 Fulham (H)
24/5/09 Villa (A)

They're on 29 pts, meaning they probably need another 8/9 pts to be safe.

It will likely come down to the two home games against Boro and Fulham. If they can win them, I think they'll be fine.

It would sadden me a bit if they were relegated

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Mushy

I do think they will be relegated. And OP, in your post, you def made a good point in that it'll be tough in the Championship. I'd also seriously doubt your ability to get straight back up. Its a tough slog down there. Although maybe don't give up total hope yet, even if the situation is woeful.

monkey9

Charlie, i do think you's are in serious danger. If i was picking the three to go down i'd be opting for yourselves, Boro and obviously West Brom.
Also, i was reading that if you's do go down, Ashley has made no allowance in players contracts to cut their wages if relegated. So if there are players you can't sell..........well basically, Newcastle really are in a mess at the moment.

Daemos

I genuinely hate to say it, but I can't see Newcastle staying up. It's a real shame. In my mind, and probably the minds of a lot of other people, I saw Newcastle as almost a standard in the Premier League. Not as high and mighty as Man Utd or Chelsea, but still a club that I assumed would stay in the Premier League for years to come. They've been in the Premier League since 1993, after all.

If they get relegated, I would have it on the same level as Leeds United, in regards to sudden and unexpected decline.

Hoping I'm wrong, though.

population

I think it is safe to say WBA and Boro will go down.

So then it depends on whether or not Newcastle are better than any one of Stoke, Hull, Pompey, Blackburn, Sunderland etc and possibly even Bolton, though unlikely as I think Bolton are safe)

I think Hull and Sunderland are Newcastles most likely option to swap places with. However I dont think that amount of comedic management of a football club can go unpunished by the football gods.

My gut instinct is that theyll go down, and possibly do a Charlton and fight relegation from the Championship. Its a shame because they are a massive club with a loyal fanbase but it does not look good.

jesus_thats_gre

I really wouldn't like to see Newcy go down.. I am worried that they will but their are plenty of games left that they can win.

MementoMori

I think it is far too soon to say they are relegated already given how tight things are. One win would easily jump them up two or three places.

Are there any players who have release clauses in their contracts if Newcastle do go down?

Im_No_Superman

It really would be strange to start off next season without Newcastle in the Premiership but it is a distinct possibility now. The three home games against Pompy, Boro and Fulham are crucial, 3 wins are needed and if they can keep Owen fit for those games who knows they might do it.

anonymous_joe

Hmmm.

Newcastle's squad has one or two players who'd be bloody handy in the championship, Martins and Nolan mar shampla, it says a lot that they're in their problem.

Helix

newcastle being relegated would surely see a mass exodus of playing staff of leeds united proportions

whatawaster

About halfway through the season, when the bottom was even tighter than it is now, i was chatting to some mates, saying jokingly, wouldn't it be great if Spurs, Newcastle and City all went down. But the more i think about it, i think it'd be terrible. As much as i respect the likes of Stoke, i'd rather the prem was clogged with teams who at least try and play football, which Newcastle usually do (though with little success).

LuckyLloyd

Charlie, you may not wish to hear this - but relegation may be the necessary step back Newcastle needs to take before it can go two steps forward. At the moment you have a club which:

- has a squad earning an average wage way out of proportion with it's talent level;
- will be unable to sell on many of those players for acceptable sums / find teams willing to pay salaries that match their current deals;
- has a reputation as a poisoned chalice of a job where managers fail to receive the necessary time and backing to complete a project;
- has an inefficient and unrealistic ownership;

So long as you hang around the Premiership the opportunity and motivation to properly cure these ills will remain absent. Relegation would:

- require the club to slash the wagebill and offload players for the best price available;
- motivate a lot of the problem players to move on elsewhere in order to avoid Championship football and thus sooth their egos;
- force the club to stick with a manager for an 18 month+ period at leastin order to secure promotion;
- force the current ownership to either move on or drastically alter their approach to running the club;

PHB

I honestly think relegation would be a good thing for the club in the long term. The entire club structure, from the chairperson down to the fans, needs a reality check if they ever want to compete again.

Beyond that, I'd enjoy them being relegated, no lovelost with Newcastle.

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

I honestly think relegation would be a good thing for the club in the long term. The entire club structure, from the chairperson down to the fans, needs a reality check if they ever want to compete again.

Beyond that, I'd enjoy them being relegated, no lovelost with Newcastle.

Relegation from the Premiership is NEVER a good thing for a club. The difference in revenue is far too great for it to be a simple case of going down for a year or so to sort yourself out.

Has there ever been a team that has gone down, stayed for a year, then come back and taken the Premiership by storm?

dfx-

The run in is largely irrelevant [/Giles]

Stoke, Portsmouth, a deathly Villa, Fulham, Boro all places where points can be got where you don't think they will.

I don't see Newcastle relegated, but it's a possible obviously..

Helix

Xavi6 wrote: »

Has there ever been a team that has gone down, stayed for a year, then come back and taken the Premiership by storm?

newcastle
blackburn
ipswich

Seaneh

yeah and they were all over 10 years ago when there was far less money in english football.

Xavi6

Helix wrote: »

newcastle
blackburn
ipswich

Ipswich had one decent year and then fell away never to be seen again. Hardly roaring success.

If it was so easy then the likes of Forest, Wednesday and Leeds would have bounced straight back. They are the cases that Newcastle fans should be looking at.

dfx-

Newcastle stayed up did they not and Ipswich have stayed down..?

Charlton is the map for everyone I suppose..

Did Sunderland do it as well or were they down for two years around 1999ish?

x in the city

Newcastle need to get their head out of the gutter, they are gone and about time.

If ever there was a story of how not to run a club over the last 10 whatever years, then its Newcastle.


Sacking managers at will, having a technical director of football logistics guy dennis wise running a job (what job?) from london..

wtf...! you could write a novel on the theatrical wrong goings at the club.

Relegation is just what ye need, need to clean up the mess and start afresh. and I wont expect you back anytime soon either.... look at leeds etc

off topic, Newcastle had the 1st ever black player in the top flight.

FACT

Gary ITR

I wouldn't like to see them going down but I'm finding it quite difficult to see past Newcastle, 'Boro and West Brom going down.

Looks like Sunderland will be the only team from the Northeast in the Premiership next year

Jazzy

the toon will be fine.

say ciao to boro tho. they are so going down. such a nothing team atm.. well except for beating liverpool :pac:

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

internelligent

Maybe Newcastle going down might be good for the club. Alot of overpaid footballers would be shipped out and the squad would be rebuilt. They've a great fan base and a great stadium to bring in alot of revenue which would help no end. I wouldn't see them coming up the following year though but maybe the year after that.
If Newcastle DO manage to stay up, (a challenge but nowhere near impossible), I imagine too much of the deadwood there would remain and 2009/2010 would simply duplicate what we've seen of the club this year.
Personally, I'd prefere it if they stayed up because I've a soft spot for the club. They're fans have been through so much crap over the last couple of years and they deserve a break. (and it's always an easy 6pts in the bag for the pool:). )

Highsider

Honestly i think if Newcastle get relegated it would be god for the club. The supporters have expectations that are way beyond what the club can offer them and at least this way you can get rid of a lot of the dross at the club

wowy

Xavi6 wrote: »

Has there ever been a team that has gone down, stayed for a year, then come back and taken the Premiership by storm?

Man City did well enough coming up through 2 divisions, didn't they?

Boggles

wowy wrote: »

Man City did well enough coming up through 2 divisions, didn't they?

Am no. Unless I missed that particular "City Storm".

Iago

I don't think getting relegated would be the best thing for Newcastle in the short to medium term, but I do think it would be the best thing for the premier league.

If a club as big as Newcastle gets relegated then people will sit up and take notice. As someone else posted it'll be like Leeds all over again. Another club that was run very poorly and paid the price. Ashleys heart was in the right place, but his actual management of the club has been nothing short of a disgrace.

They've had consistently bad managers as well as a structure that was never going to work for them. When they get relegated they'll get rid of most of the dead wood and will have a decent chance in the championship because they'll be a bigger draw than most of the clubs down there.

Curbishley to take over, bring them straight back to the premiership and then consolidate the following season.

You heard it here first

Daemonic

If they do get relegated they'll need to bounce back quickly as I think they'll struggle financially once the parachute payments run out.
Hope they survive.

everdead.ie

Was in the paper all right that no automatic paycut was put in the contracts compared to sunderland where wages will be cut 40% if they go down Ashely will pay the price for thinking your to big to go down.

Duff and martins and Owen will all be sold thats if you do go down still reckon stoke could go instead tho if you play like you did against man u for that first half.

NabyLadistheman

Please let Stoke go down. Possibly the most frustrating team in the world. Rory Delap crossing the lenght of the pitch to left back to dry the ball then throw it as far as possible. Someone knocks it out, up he goes again to do the exact same thing again! aaahhh!

It's an awful shame what's happened at Newcastle. I was diggin for them when Joe started to gather a bit of momentum but for Ashley not to act & bring in a manager since he's been gone has been nothin short of scandelous.

If they do go down he'll feel it as he'll lose millions & thats no more than what he deserves when you consider his treatment of Kevin Keegan. Where would they be if King Kev was still in charge

I hope to god Newcastle stay up

dsmythy

Not a Newcastle fan but i hope they stay up. I'm sure their fans will continue to pack out the stadium if they are relegated. They've stayed there through thick and thin.

mirwillbeback

I always refer to the time that Bowyer and Dyer were sent off for fighting each other on the pitch - both banned for 3 games costing the Toon two player on about 50k a week. Then when they return they are given a standing ovation - always felt it summed up the club, fans accepted mediocrity for too long.
A great shame, as they were SO good in the mid nineties, an absolute joy to watch.

Helix

dsmythy wrote: »

Not a Newcastle fan but i hope they stay up. I'm sure their fans will continue to pack out the stadium if they are relegated. They've stayed there through thick and thin.

werent newcastles attendances pretty poor pre premiership promotion?

JPA

Getting relegated is not the answer, ever.
IF they stay up they should bring in someone with experience like Curbishley instead of the Malaga manager or whoever else they're looking at.

Ashley needs a kick in the head for the farce he has created, it's unbelievable how things have went there. Bringing in Kinnear in the first place was bizarre and then not replacing him when he was hospitalised. Now talk of Venables coming in, jesus Christ.

I would never say Newcastle the club deserve to go down, but Ashley the owner does.

monkey9

x in the city wrote: »

off topic, Newcastle had the 1st ever black player in the top flight.FACT

Used to work in the coal mines, did he?

Iang87

Helix wrote: »

werent newcastles attendances pretty poor pre premiership promotion?

so was there stadium so that would explain that

TwoShedsJackson

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Hmmm.

Newcastle's squad has one or two players who'd be bloody handy in the championship, Martins and Nolan mar shampla, it says a lot that they're in their problem.

Well if they go down Martins won't be playing in the Championship next season, he wouldn't want to play at that level, and the club would probably jump at 5 or 6 million for him to get him off the wage bill.

If Newcastle are relegated, Coloccini, Barton, Cacapa (no loss), Martins, Owen, Duff, Smith (again absolutley no loss), and Viduka (say no more) would definitely be gone.

Possibly gone would be Jose Enrique, Barton, Duff, Bassong, Gutierrez, Geremi, Butt, Beye, and Steven Taylor.

I suppose you could expect Harper, Nolan, Guthrie, Ryan Taylor, maybe Butt, Ameobi, and Carroll from the first team to stay. They can form the basis of a reasonable team in the Championship.

Relegation is looking more and more likely, a month ago I thought we'd still get out of it, now I don't think we will.

Third_Echelon

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Charlie, you may not wish to hear this - but relegation may be the necessary step back Newcastle needs to take before it can go two steps forward. At the moment you have a club which:

- has a squad earning an average wage way out of proportion with it's talent level;
- will be unable to sell on many of those players for acceptable sums / find teams willing to pay salaries that match their current deals;
- has a reputation as a poisoned chalice of a job where managers fail to receive the necessary time and backing to complete a project;
- has an inefficient and unrealistic ownership;

So long as you hang around the Premiership the opportunity and motivation to properly cure these ills will remain absent. Relegation would:

- require the club to slash the wagebill and offload players for the best price available;
- motivate a lot of the problem players to move on elsewhere in order to avoid Championship football and thus sooth their egos;
- force the club to stick with a manager for an 18 month+ period at leastin order to secure promotion;
- force the current ownership to either move on or drastically alter their approach to running the club;

Yeah, I think you are right LuckyLord... They can either do the clearout themselves if they stay in the premier league, which they probably wont do (clearout that is).

Relegation would force their hand and they'd have to get rid of the overpaid dead-wood and start all over again. It could be a blessing in disguise for them.

As an Everton fan, there was a few seasons in the pre-Moyes era where I thought that relegation would have sorted us out. We stayed up, but it has taken us at least 7 years to get a competitive squad together and fully get rid of all the dead-wood.

Its a hard call to make on which would be better though. I really think if Newcastle where to get relegated they need to get a tough, no nonsense manager and let him have the job for a good few years to built stability and consistency. At the moment they are just drifting from season to season..

x in the city

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Well if they go down Martins won't be playing in the Championship next season, he wouldn't want to play at that level, and the club would probably jump at 5 or 6 million for him to get him off the wage bill.

If Newcastle are relegated, Coloccini, Barton, Cacapa (no loss), Martins, Owen, Duff, Smith (again absolutley no loss), and Viduka (say no more) would definitely be gone.

Possibly gone would be Jose Enrique, Barton, Duff, Bassong, Gutierrez, Geremi, Butt, Beye, and Steven Taylor.

I suppose you could expect Harper, Nolan, Guthrie, Ryan Taylor, maybe Butt, Ameobi, and Carroll from the first team to stay. They can form the basis of a reasonable team in the Championship.

Relegation is looking more and more likely, a month ago I thought we'd still get out of it, now I don't think we will.

looks like the whole team so huh.

tut tut....

x in the city

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Yeah, I think you are right LuckyLord... They can either do the clearout themselves if they stay in the premier league, which they probably wont do (clearout that is).

Relegation would force their hand and they'd have to get rid of the overpaid dead-wood and start all over again. It could be a blessing in disguise for them.

As an Everton fan, there was a few seasons in the pre-Moyes era where I thought that relegation would have sorted us out. We stayed up, but it has taken us at least 7 years to get a competitive squad together and fully get rid of all the dead-wood.

Its a hard call to make on which would be better though. I really think if Newcastle where to get relegated they need to get a tough, no nonsense manager and let him have the job for a good few years to built stability and consistency. At the moment they are just drifting from season to season..

looks like a job for joe royle...:P

Rikand

If Newcastle go down, I'll be blaming Faustino Asprilla

Charlie

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Charlie, you may not wish to hear this - but relegation may be the necessary step back Newcastle needs to take before it can go two steps forward. At the moment you have a club which:

- has a squad earning an average wage way out of proportion with it's talent level;
- will be unable to sell on many of those players for acceptable sums / find teams willing to pay salaries that match their current deals;
- has a reputation as a poisoned chalice of a job where managers fail to receive the necessary time and backing to complete a project;
- has an inefficient and unrealistic ownership;

So long as you hang around the Premiership the opportunity and motivation to properly cure these ills will remain absent. Relegation would:

- require the club to slash the wagebill and offload players for the best price available;
- motivate a lot of the problem players to move on elsewhere in order to avoid Championship football and thus sooth their egos;
- force the club to stick with a manager for an 18 month+ period at leastin order to secure promotion;
- force the current ownership to either move on or drastically alter their approach to running the club;

The problem is Llyod is that are club is in no way geared for relegation.

Relegation would mean 3 things:
- Cloggers like Smith, Butt, Cacapa, Ameobi, Geremi would remain with us, on ridiculous premiership money
- It's a given that the likes of Owen and Martins would be on their bike, but our promising players like Bassong and Gutierez would be picked up, probably for a pittance considering what Shay left for.
- Ashley and his regime would definitely be sticking around, given the fact that he would get no where near his valuation of the club if he sold us post relegation.

All of the above is a horrible cocktail for a a Sheff Wed/Nott Forest/Leeds style implosion.

What this club needs is to stay up by the skin of it's teeth, and Ashley to pack his bags.

PHB wrote: »

I honestly think relegation would be a good thing for the club in the long term. The entire club structure, from the chairperson down to the fans, needs a reality check if they ever want to compete again.

Beyond that, I'd enjoy them being relegated, no lovelost with Newcastle.

Explain please? The vast majority of our fans our, and have been, incredibly realistic about where we should be. Bar the window lickers who Sky seem to throw a camera on at any given opportunity, none of us expect league challenges, champions league, or even uefa cup football. Top 10 is where most of us were aiming for pre-season.

Highsider wrote: »

Honestly i think if Newcastle get relegated it would be god for the club. The supporters have expectations that are way beyond what the club can offer them and at least this way you can get rid of a lot of the dross at the club

As per above mate, don't base your opinion on us from what you see on SSN or read in The Sun.

JPA wrote: »

Getting relegated is not the answer, ever.
IF they stay up they should bring in someone with experience like Curbishley instead of the Malaga manager or whoever else they're looking at.

Ashley needs a kick in the head for the farce he has created, it's unbelievable how things have went there. Bringing in Kinnear in the first place was bizarre and then not replacing him when he was hospitalised. Now talk of Venables coming in, jesus Christ.

I would never say Newcastle the club deserve to go down, but Ashley the owner does.

This is one of the best summaries of our situation that I have seen, bang on the money.

Mr Alan

Charlie, you know i said it at the time, but the type of manager to bring stability, the type of manager you've needed, you had...and sacked. There is no way on gods green earth Newcastle would be getting relegated if Big Sam was still there.

(i ain't saying that out of love for Sam, in fact i depise the manager, but he is a decent enough manager)

kinaldo

Mr Alan wrote: »

Charlie, you know i said it at the time, but the type of manager to bring stability, the type of manager you've needed, you had...and sacked. There is no way on gods green earth Newcastle would be getting relegated if Big Sam was still there.

(i ain't saying that out of love for Sam, in fact i depise the manager, but he is a decent enough manager)

I think I'd rather be relegated tbh.

Also, I wonder if Allardyce would have put up with Dennis Wise behind his back, or stuck to his principles like Keegan did.

Keegan was the man...

fúcking Wise!

Mr Alan

kinaldo wrote: »

I think I'd rather be relegated tbh.

and therein lies the problem.

Sam did nowt wrong except not play attractive enough football for yous. beggars can't be choosers mate.

kinaldo

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sam did nowt wrong

LOL. he played SHOLA Ameobi ahead of Martins for a start.

Jazzy

i dont get why toon fans wanted keegan to stay. he knew nothing of the modern game and did an average job at citeh.

i know, local lad yadayada but all the same, big sam could have made u a stable club and actually not make u a novelty club.. which is wat the toon are now. its been a graveyard for good players the last few years

kinaldo

Mr Alan wrote: »

except not play attractive enough football

or winning football.