Are the public sector workers/unions in cloud cuckoo land?

leitrim lad

yes i see your point about 90% but that 10% unemployment has come directly from the private sector, and that is not including self employed people who cannot claim like myself ,but im lucky to still have a ship that floats ,im still trading, and you could easily cut your 90% down to 80% and it is getting worse every by a thousand more people

Godge

leitrim lad wrote: »

Dear godge in not a builder neither,but i do agree with you on carrick on shannon ,the town i hail from has been destroyed by yupees from the greater dublin area who discovered we had mbna headquarters,and masonite in a small county leitrim town that was undeveloped as they put it, and guess what both mbna and masonite could close any day now, more private sector workers facing dole ques.
my work is based more on roads,bridges,water,sewage schemes,canals,rivers,and so on also rail,but you cannot strike just take a look at the type of work i do and tell me i will be busy in 3 months time, shane ross said the truth on the oireachtas report last night ,,,,,

Actually, who said I was going on strike? And who said I was a public sector worker?

I have actually worked for over 25 years in both the public and private sectors. Have worked in menial jobs in restaurant kitchens and senior executive positions in the private sector and a variety of positions in the public sector. I lived and worked abroad for a while so I have a great deal of experience. Currently I am in the private sector. I have met many people in all those walks of life, some of them hugely dedicated, some of them wasters. I have been left with a great sense of admiration for those of great ability in the public sector who could have earned greater amounts in the private sector but who stayed in the public sector out of some sense of patriotism or dedication to public service.

The worst category I have come across are those that claim to be in the private sector, claim to be the great entrepeneurs leading this country forward, claim to be the foundation and the heartbeat of the Celtic Tiger, but when you examine what they do, you discover that they have become wholly reliant on Government money and tenders, leeches on the taxpayer, have milked the system for years by submitting grossly excessive tenders while exploiting the lowly paid workers they employ and refusing to recognise unions. Generally, they don't give decent holidays and have ended up benefitting from every form of tax-break going. Generally, you find that while they claim to be working in the private sector, they are working on roads, bridges, sewerage schemes, canals, rivers and rail, exploiting the taxpayer for their super-normal profits.

I don't feel a bit sorry for these highly paid quasi-public servants, just a lot sorry for the poor divils that have had to work for them.

leitrim lad

well i pay holiday pay and a 3 week bonus at christmas to each employee,i dont take in union members too much hassle ,but i can tell you any tender i have ever entered has ended up being very competitive because of atleast 100 or so more going for the same contract, and in the trade im in you normally tender what ever is out there let it be for the government or a private individual,i also had to go abroad on 2 occasions to work in the uk and germany ,again i tendered work there and got it ,and at the minute im tendering projects as far away as romania ,just to keep the ship afloat,
however i do agree with you there are leaches to the tax payer who have claimed large amounts of money for carrying out folly work as i like to call it ,but www.etenders.ie has made it alot more competitive

Godge

leitrim lad wrote: »

well i pay holiday pay and a 3 week bonus at christmas to each employee,i dont take in union members too much hassle ,but i can tell you any tender i have ever entered has ended up being very competitive because of atleast 100 or so more going for the same contract, and in the trade im in you normally tender what ever is out there let it be for the government or a private individual,i also had to go abroad on 2 occasions to work in the uk and germany ,again i tendered work there and got it ,and at the minute im tendering projects as far away as romania ,just to keep the ship afloat,
however i do agree with you there are leaches to the tax payer who have claimed large amounts of money for carrying out folly work as i like to call it ,but www.etenders.ie has made it alot more competitive

You are still paid by the taxpayer and that makes you a quasi-public servant - the thing you most seem to rant against.

leitrim lad

airtricity isnt a public company ,neither is shell to name but a few and they have provided 80% of my contracts in the last 18 months

BroomBurner

leitrim lad wrote: »

airtricity isnt a public company ,neither is shell to name but a few and they have provided 80% of my contracts in the last 18 months

Opens can of worms :eek:

dresden8

leitrim lad wrote: »

but www.etenders.ie has made it alot more competitive

Wow, plus 1 to the public sector for pushing down costs.

And you're the one who keeps calling them wasteful and keeps slagging them off.

ArphaRima

Honestly I'm not sure if Leitrim lad knows what affects this economy he floats in.
He can only think in microeconomics(his labour gang), colloquial "common knowledge" hearsay(bankers, politicians, government, the rich - bad), and is spending his time railing against everyone with simplistic arguments with no substantiative engagement in debate.

i pay holiday pay and a 3 week bonus at christmas to each employee,i dont take in union members too much hassle ,but i can tell you any tender i have ever entered has ended up being very competitive because of atleast 100 or so more going for the same contract,

This is about unions. So let's get some substantiative information to debate.

What do you pay your employees(lowest,average,highest, yourself)? Overtime pay? Their hours?
What do they do exactly? Their titles? Their nationality?
Are they full time employees with paid leave entitlements, sick leave, maternity(!) leave etc?
Do you pay a pension?
Do they accrue seniority?
Do they have promotion prospects? Pay reviews?

This is with a view to end your rant and start a debate. On crazy unions, work practices and employers. Lets see where cuckoo land starts.

dresden8

fluffer wrote: »

Honestly I'm not sure if Leitrim lad knows what affects this economy he floats in.
He can only think in microeconomics(his labour gang), colloquial "common knowledge" hearsay(bankers, politicians, government, the rich - bad), and is spending his time railing against everyone with simplistic arguments with no substantiative engagement in debate.

This is about unions. So let's get some substantiative information to debate.

What do you pay your employees(lowest,average,highest, yourself)? Overtime pay? Their hours?
What do they do exactly? Their titles? Their nationality?
Are they full time employees with paid leave entitlements, sick leave, maternity(!) leave etc?
Do you pay a pension?
Do they accrue seniority?
Do they have promotion prospects? Pay reviews?

This is with a view to end your rant and start a debate. On crazy unions, work practices and employers. Lets see where cuckoo land starts.

Not to mention is he making p35 returns to the revenue commissioners?

Does he conform with health and safety regulations?

leitrim lad

yes yes yes revenue in order, updated every second month, health and safety most costly part (in order) we contribute to cwps and all players in my field are irish ,their titles are machinery operators, ground operatives, quantity surveyors, civil engineers,as i said before 80% of my contracts in last 18 months are private,and it is clear why i am anty union,i want to get the job done with as little hassle as possible,also a union member who is constantly on strike can give a company a bad reputation,and companies such as mine need to be competitive and have a work force who are willing to work not strike

dresden8

leitrim lad wrote: »

well i pay holiday pay and a 3 week bonus at christmas to each employee,

Private sector get christmas bonuses?

Don't they know the state the economy is in?

No Christmas bonus in public sector. In the interests of fairness and of course "in the national interest" the government should introduce a Christmas bonus levy in the next budget.

ArphaRima

a union member who is constantly on strike can give a company a bad reputation

I dont think you have any idea how a union works. They engage in collective bargaining with their employer. It is not in the interest of any union to be constantly on strike. Or even frequently or infrequently. It is their aim to never be on strike, and yet protect the welfare of their members.

You obviously just dont like the idea of collective bargaining, where your subordinates are allowed to bring their welfare concerns to you as an equal. "hassle" as you call - it is your employees being unhappy with some things you do.

Given how much you dislike debate, and rather declare your opinion(in vague and colloquial, unpunctuated, stream of consciousness), I can see why.

I suppose if you were in the government you would just run the thousands of PS/CS employees down the road like dogs (your words) in a sea of expletives?!

leitrim lad

well fluffer you are obviosly asleep for the last year,because all they want to do lately is announce strike dates

ArphaRima

well fluffer you are obviosly asleep for the last year,because all they want to do lately is announce strike dates

And how often do they strike?
How would you deal with it? As an employer of course.

oscarBravo

Less handbaggery, more debate - and let's avoid personalising it.

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

well fluffer you are obviosly asleep for the last year,because all they want to do lately is announce strike dates

please by all means elaborate on this point?

leitrim lad

only for a vote and their little nonsence talks they would be on the streets monday, as an employer i would let them strike and when they are out on the street striking i woll simply just carry on trading with a fleet of new staff who want to earn a living hassle free of course

ArphaRima

as an employer i would let them strike and when they are out on the street striking i woll simply just carry on trading with a fleet of new staff who want to earn a living hassle free of course

Ok. So the government will allow tens of thousands of people to go on strike. All our civil and public service. Then lock them out, and replace with....?
No wait that's everyone.
First come first served for the civil service. Fire chief anyone?

-trying not to personalise-
The world is not that simple. Unions have their place. They act when their members are unhappy. Dont forget that unions are acting under the mandate of their members only. That means that tens of thousands of people are unhappy. The very people who help run this country. Your response is to let them be unhappy, then lock them out of employment and replace their jobs. Seriously is this your opinion?

leitrim lad

yes but how can you explain all of these people who have to take cut regardless of what they want ,who are attempting to bring the country to a stand still in the middle of a depression,and they expect a pay rise aswell, come on those pay talks were the greatest load of waffle anyone has ever heard of,americe slips in to recession but wait the irish union leaders think ots time to up the national wage, and now when the government has no other choice but to cut wages or else cut jobs ,they are up in arms again,if we listened to the unions we would all be on strike and broke along wiith that

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

only for a vote and their little nonsence talks they would be on the streets monday, as an employer i would let them strike and when they are out on the street striking i woll simply just carry on trading with a fleet of new staff who want to earn a living hassle free of course

sure the cpsu are hitting the streets today.

your plan is extermly flawed. so the day people go out on strike, you thing youd manage to hire that many people to work straight away.

i think you are on cloud cuckoo land.

leitrim lad

how many hundred thousand good honest workers are currently unemployed, example hotel in cork few weeks ago 50 new jobs, over 1000 applications, and the majority of the unemployed dont want a union

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

and the majority of the unemployed dont want a union

have you got the percentage of unemplyed that dont want a union and a link or article to back up this point?

dresden8

stevoman wrote: »

sure the cpsu are hitting the streets today.

To protest about the economy the CPSU is taking a long lunch.

That'll shake the foundations of the country.

stevoman

dresden8 wrote: »

To protest about the economy the CPSU is taking a long lunch.

That'll shake the foundations of the country.

thats your attempt at sarcasm? FAIL :rolleyes:

leitrim lad

i would be teling them take a long holiday never mend a long lunch,what will they do after the budget take a cogarette break to strike

ArphaRima

yes but how can you explain all of these people who have to take cut regardless of what they want ,who are attempting to bring the country to a stand still in the middle of a depression,and they expect a pay rise aswell, come on those pay talks were the greatest load of waffle anyone has ever heard of,americe slips in to recession but wait the irish union leaders think ots time to up the national wage, and now when the government has no other choice but to cut wages or else cut jobs ,they are up in arms again,

I think its suffice to say that you just dont get the bigger picture in general. Stop latching onto small nuggets of fact.
The economy is in recession. People are taking pay cuts to keep their jobs. They pay deal was done before the recession took hold fully. It was a disgrace, yes. Agreed by the very government WE the voters all voted for(not one of my votes went to FF). In fact you already said you supported Fianna Fail!

How can you decry a government YOU voted for and are implicit in creating?

You need to make the link between action and response. You voted for FF. They came into power. They mismanaged. You lost business. The unions negotiated amazing deals for their members. Government policy created the "Irish-style" property boom. Then the especially deeper "irish" bust.
Can you not see how you are to blame far more than the unions? They did their job. They represented their members. Your government let you down. And you voted them in.

I'm just trying to see how you place blame at the feet of unions when you have local representatives that you helped elect to apportion real and quantifiable blame to.

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

i would be teling them take a long holiday never mend a long lunch,what will they do after the budget take a cogarette break to strike

1 - you have nothing to add to the debate except nonsensical rants. i think that chip on your shoulder is turning into a potatoe at this stage.

2 - whats a cogarette break?

leitrim lad

sorry a cigarette break, however a rise in taxes os better than no job, and a pension levy is better than no job, and atleast with the pension levy you gain when you retire, tax increases means you lose out there and then

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

sorry a cigarette break, however a rise in taxes os better than no job, and a pension levy is better than no job, and atleast with the pension levy you gain when you retire, tax increases means you lose out there and then

so on that point can you please point out where the money from the pension levy is going?

jimmmy

leitrim lad wrote: »

i would be teling them take a long holiday never mend a long lunch

...a long unpaid for holiday, definitely.

Its a pity nobody even a tenth the calibre of Michael O'Leary was running the couintry over the past ten years, instead of giving in to the unions at every turn. The government is borrowing 25 billion to cover day to day expenses + wages , just to keep things going as they are. Even those in the public service / on the govt payroll I know admit they are overpaid and underworked.