Are the public sector workers/unions in cloud cuckoo land?

mikemac

leitrim lad wrote: »

well i pay holiday pay and a 3 week bonus at christmas to each employee

Everyone gets holiday pay. 20 days annual leave or 8% of your hours if you are part time.
Probably different for contractors though

dresden8

stevoman wrote: »

1 - you have nothing to add to the debate except nonsensical rants. i think that chip on your shoulder is turning into a potatoe at this stage.

2 - whats a cogarette break?

Unfortunately pointing out the irony in this post would get me an infraction.

Sigh.

stevoman

jimmmy wrote: »

Even those in the public service / on the govt payroll I know admit they are overpaid and underworked.

so can you elaborate on this please. what are their professions and payscales?

stevoman

dresden8 wrote: »

Unfortunately pointing out the irony in this post would get me an infraction.

Sigh.

good man

jimmmy

stevoman wrote: »

so can you elaborate on this please. what are their professions and payscales?

various, from secretarial / admin in the public service up. I am not nosey enough to ask them their payscales. They themselves know they are better paid / have a better lifestyle and security + pension benefit than most of their friends in the private sector - ye do not need to be a rocket scientist to see that ! Many business and self employed people I know are making a loss. Anyone driving an 09 car has to be a public servant or an Anglo director ! lol

leitrim lad

the pension levy money is going no where because it is not there to go anywhere,thats why it was introduced to cut spending,funny how the public sectis workers in the uk ar not going on strike,and they get paid less than the ones here

dresden8

stevoman wrote: »

thats your attempt at sarcasm? FAIL :rolleyes:

Even the most outrageous union head would have to accept that the current "campaign" by the unions is a joke.

CPSU takes long lunches and refuses to answer the phones for an hour occasionally.

ICTU huffs and puffs and threatens a strike and then backs down.

Goes back into "Partnership" talks when the last round of partnership talks ended with "You're taking a pay cut, now eff off". The government and IBEC have firmly nailed their colours to the mast.

I used to think it was a campaign by IBEC to destroy the unions, now I think it's a campaign by the unions to destroy the unions

Oh, and nice use of capitals. Put me in my place, I can tell you.

ArphaRima

Even the most outrageous union head would have to accept that the current "campaign" by the unions is a joke.

Not at all. They create such a stink over small issues that the big issues are left alone, they pretend they lost, the government gets to pretend they won and they really get their way.
It's a dance they have to partake in. When its over they'll be in a better position by far than had they done nothing.

stevoman

jimmmy wrote: »

various, from secretarial / admin in the public service up. I am not nosey enough to ask them their payscales. They themselves know they are better paid / have a better lifestyle and security + pension benefit than most of their friends in the private sector - ye do not need to be a rocket scientist to see that ! Many business and self employed people I know are making a loss. Anyone driving an 09 car has to be a public servant or an Anglo director ! lol

im sorry but your arguements are sweeping and generalising. what about lower paid civil servants who car on an average of 30k and their superiors arounf 40k who are making less of a payment in their pension levys?

im a public servant who has a 2001 golf and i cant even afford to rax it and i have to ask my parents for a lend to insure my car so i can get to work. no 09's for me im afraid.

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

the pension levy money is going no where because it is not there to go anywhere,thats why it was introduced to cut spending,funny how the public sectis workers in the uk ar not going on strike,and they get paid less than the ones here

no the "pension levy" is going straight into the exchequer, so it is essentially a pay cut. do your homework and ege your facts straight.

stevoman

dresden8 wrote: »

Oh, and nice use of capitals. Put me in my place, I can tell you.

another attempt? FAIL

leitrim lad

serious know all problem there, of course you are against what i say because you infact havent got your facts right, there is no money there to deduct, it all has to be borrowed ,it might state deductions on a payslip but there is no actual movement of money, and i soppose you wont benefit when you retire either,
on the car and the tax and insur, thats your own choice maybe a few lifestyle changes and cuts are needed there

ArphaRima

you are against what i say because you infact havent got your facts right

You actually know so little its impossible to debate fact with you.

,it might state deductions on a payslip but there is no actual movement of money,

Exactly. No movement of money from government to employee. So government coffers are better off. By the amount of the pension levy..

serious know all problem there

I have no idea what that means

LoLth

dresden8 wrote: »

CPSU takes long lunches and refuses to answer the phones for an hour occasionally.

better than taking a full day and stopping workplaces altogether. They still get to make their message heard but without the same scale of public backlash

ICTU huffs and puffs and threatens a strike and then backs down.

Absolutely true. Couldnt agree more. IF the whole purpose was to have a strike for the sake of a day of standing on a picket line... as it is in reality however, the aim was to have their opinion heard by the governemnt and hopefully open dialogue.. this was done and so no need for a strike. backing down was the correct course of action, going ahead would only have been disingenuous and invoked negative reaction from teh public (not to mention giving certain posters here more ammo to throw against the faceless hiveminded mass that is the public service , mastermind of evil and enemy of good citizenship wherever it may be)

Goes back into "Partnership" talks when the last round of partnership talks ended with "You're taking a pay cut, now eff off". The government and IBEC have firmly nailed their colours to the mast.

that i think was the trouble with the last round. talks went ahead fine until the government dropped a proposal on the unions at the last minute giving very little time for discussion or even preparation. Unions walked out over the deadline imposed on them and what they saw as an unfair tactic that went against the spirit of the talks. This time however, the unions know that pay cuts are likely, they know that cowen (amazingly) has some backbone in underneath that blubber somewhere and they know what is scheduled to be discussed. it will be interesting to see how this round of talks turns out. Cowen may have bought himself a better bargaining position but I doubt he has the ability to use it effectively (I do hope I am wrong)


insert sarcastic/witty comment here... i cant be bothered

leitrim lad

my facts are correct,but remember where the money that all the strikes are about comes from in the first place,


people like me ,and whoever is willing to lend to the government, cos it most certanily does not come from public sector workers or their bluffer unions

BroomBurner

Leitrim Lad, I have read over the last few pages and not once have you answered any level headed question with the requisite facts, figures and calmness to support your views.

hobochris

The way out this mess IMO, is to bring public sector pay inline with the equivalent private sector pay & then Put taxes up across the board. This in turn should bring the cost of living down and then Paycuts can be made to keep wages relative to the current cost of living.

easier said then done though.

P. Breathnach

LoLth wrote: »

... that i think was the trouble with the last round. talks went ahead fine until the government dropped a proposal on the unions at the last minute giving very little time for discussion or even preparation. Unions walked out over the deadline imposed on them and what they saw as an unfair tactic that went against the spirit of the talks...

I don't read it that way. I think the government's proposal was well flagged -- perhaps not the details, but its general nature.

I don't, however, understand why it was held back quite as late as it was. There is a point in preparing the ground in negotiations, particularly when lots of interested people are watching to see what their representatives might agree to. But no matter how well prepared the ground, when the big proposal is tabled, you have to give people some time to deal with it.

You also have to remember that, even though we talk about union leaders, the ICTU participants in the talks were there as servants of the members. Imagine what would have happened if they said yes to pay cuts.

I think that pulling out of the talks at that point was a tactical move, and the only thing the ICTU people could have done. They could not say yes and carry their members with them; they could not say no and stay in the talks.

I thought that the unions might get stuck in and tackle some of the anomalies in the pensions levy. It would have been a right thing to do, and it might have sugared the pill for some of their members. It's a pity that didn't happen.

P. Breathnach

hobochris wrote: »

The way out this mess IMO, is to bring public sector pay inline with the equivalent private sector pay...

Benchmarking? Yes to that.

GuanYin

leitrim lad wrote: »

my facts are correct

Excuse the posters for not taking your word for it.

Either supply the information and data requested in the debate or leave it.

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

my facts are correct,

i cant find any post you made that you claim is "factual", that you can back it up with any link or data.

leitrim lad

yer very funny.

all that is wrong here is that the public sector workers who want to strike, and their waffler time wasting unions now see the point im making.

and they are trying to kick back

it is my money and the other private sector wortkers of this state that pays public sector wages remember that

the public sector does not contribute directly to the exchequer in fact the opposite it takes from it so remember that the next time you want to trow your weight around your only entitled to half a vote in my book, pay proper taxes and then you might have an argument

ArphaRima

and their waffler time wasting unions now see the point im making

Nobody gets your waffling time-wasting points.

he next time you want to trow your weight around your only entitled to half a vote in my book, pay proper taxes and then you might have an argument

I am a private sector worker and I can guarantee I paid far more taxes than you did last year. But this isnt a phone show on late night radio.

You arent making any sense. You arent even trying to debate. You are ranting.

-end of my rant-

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

yer very funny.

all that is wrong here is that the public sector workers who want to strike, and their waffler time wasting unions now see the point im making.

and they are trying to kick back

now you are really talking absolute nonsense

leitrim lad wrote: »

pay proper taxes and then you might have an argument

i do pay proper taxes. :rolleyes:

jimmmy

fluffer wrote: »

I am a private sector worker and I can guarantee I paid far more taxes than you did last year.

In fairness to leitrim lad I doubt you did. If as leitrim lad says he employs ten people ( and we have no reason to doubt him ) , then the various taxes he collected and signed the cheque for to the govt would almost certainly be more than the tax you paid.

jimmmy

leitrim lad wrote: »

it is my money and the other private sector wortkers of this state that pays public sector wages remember that

the public sector does not contribute directly to the exchequer in fact the opposite it takes from it

Its about time more people understood this.

leitrim lad

well fluffer if you want to get in to rates and comparison , each of my companies have and external audit every year from revenue or an auditor appointed by revenue.

i doubt you paid a 6 figure sum to revenue over the 12 month period of 2008 , and i doubt you will pay anything near it this year ,i can tell you now even the revenues take from me is down around 35% on 2008 and that was down 15% on 2007

my point is unions and ps workers who follow unions have no open ears listening to their wolf calls, they havent realised yet who is in charge and who pays there wages and pensions

White dargo

jimmmy wrote: »

Its about time more people understood this.

Most people do understand. Problem is how do you expect public servants to contribute to the exchequer and get paid by the exchequer at the same time?

stevoman

leitrim lad wrote: »

they havent realised yet who is in charge and who pays there wages and pensions

of course they understand. what is the goverment to do? privitise the public service?

White dargo

stevoman wrote: »

of course they understand. what is the goverment to do? privitise the public service?

Yes and put leitrim lad in charge for his dedication to the party:D