The A/R Off Topic Thread

Peterx

great minority sports reporting on RTE news last night, sailing and triathlon both got slots, even better then a mention!
It would be great to see one minority sport per night or even 3 nights a week get a 60 second slot.
Say;
Sea swimming
Scouts
Surfing
Sailing
Scuba diving
Shooting

and obviously other sports that don't start with S....

Krusty_Clown

Peterx wrote: »

great minority sports reporting on RTE news last night, sailing and triathlon both got slots, even better then a mention!
It would be great to see one minority sport per night or even 3 nights a week get a 60 second slot.
Say;
Sea swimming
Scouts
Surfing
Sailing
Scuba diving
Shooting

and obviously other sports that don't start with S....

I say more soccer, snorkeling and snooker!
But not shooting. We have enough of that.

T runner

mithril wrote: »

Their ability to play together is a separate issue from their natural ability.
I accept they are too similar in style to play well together.

Terry is in the current FIFA World XI chosen by over 50,000 professional football players from all over the world, who have voted for the best player in each position.
He won't make the top 11 for the World Cup though based on his form there.

Sheer physical presence and drive to win tackles are as important components of defending as ball control. Brazil have almost always had the best defenders if you judge them by their ability to control and pass the ball. However defense has always been seen as their weakest area.

Looks like Brazil have the best defense in this tournament though. They have had a decent defense since changing their style to win the world cup in 1994.

I think Brawn and hard work, although essential, are embellishments to good techique. You need to learn good technique over many years.

England dont even have the drive and physical presence any more.

Klose's goal showed real determination and physical prescence: not taking his eye off the ball as he strove for that first goal.

England need to change their footballing philosophy. Graft etc although essential must now take second place to skill and technique.

The world cup will never again be won by a team playing the way England play.

The problem isnt managers, tactics, systems etc.

Its a technical inferiority which seems to be getting more serious every tournament. Everyone saw that Aleria were at least as technically competent and more comfortable at passing, controlling and moving the ball around.

mithril

Brazil's apparent strong defence might have more to do with their ball retention abilities further up the park - it's difficult to score when you don't have the ball - but Real Madrid might have been a better example of the limitations of purely technically talented defenders.

It's drifting a bit anyway from my point which was whether Terry was an outstanding, world class defender or not. The fact that he made the FIFA top 11 selection last year indicates that there is a wide consensus that he is.

T runner wrote: »

The world cup will never again be won by a team playing the way England play.

I used to make statements like that myself, but when as poor a team as Greece won the European Championship in 2004 and a woeful German team got to the World Cup Final in 2002, I stopped doing so.
In a short series of games, pure luck can get a very limited team a long way.

Krusty_Clown

D'ya think Mick Rice knows he's on the front of this month's Irish Runner?
Could someone let him know? From racepix365:

hunnymonster

lol, yeah he knows. Was in John Buckleys when I saw it and I got all excited "I know that guy" kind of thing. they were asking me how I knew it was Mick Rice from the back - I had to say, the back of him is the only view I ever get in a race :-(

robinph

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Is that your recent 10k medal?
The guy behind you doesn't look hugely impressed!

I think that photo was from Sunday evening so that could explain the grumpiness. That's why I decided to wear the spangly top and with the help of Mr S Wonder try to cheer the place up a bit.

xebec

robinph wrote: »

I think that photo was from Sunday evening so that could explain the grumpiness. That's why I decided to wear the spangly top and with the help of Mr S Wonder try to cheer the place up a bit.

Was looking through your pics on flickr and spotted a guy in a Wexford GAA jersey... The yellow-bellies get everywhere!!

Daithi BC

xebec wrote: »

Was looking through your pics on flickr and spotted a guy in a Wexford GAA jersey... The yellow-bellies get everywhere!!

... except into a Leinster final now that we've annexed Galway into Leinster.

gerard65

How many Boards AC vests can you spot in this months edition of the Irish Runner?

xebec

Daithi BC wrote: »

... except into a Leinster final now that we've annexed Galway into Leinster.

Quiet you...

robinph

xebec wrote: »

Was looking through your pics on flickr and spotted a guy in a Wexford GAA jersey... The yellow-bellies get everywhere!!

I had my Londain one on at one point as well. We didn't actually spot any other GAA tops this year though and there always used to be a few about.

BeepBeep67

Has taken a bit of time, but starting to get into Paul Weller's new album.

I was boarding a plane while Deep Purple took to the stage in Cork - anyone make it?

robinph

So this evening I finally get around to heading along to one of the local running clubs to join in with their training session and see if I fancy joining the club. Turned out that this week it wasn't a regular week though and instead they had a 4'ish mile race around the park that they meet in. So why not thought I, think I can handle a 4 mile race at short notice.

Seems that whoever came up with the course was an evil git and sent us up the steepest hills they could find and I was reduced to a walk a couple of times. The last hill was too steep for just a trail even and was steps all the way up. :eek:

Krusty_Clown

robinph wrote: »

Seems that whoever came up with the course was an evil git and sent us up the steepest hills they could find and I was reduced to a walk a couple of times. The last hill was too steep for just a trail even and was steps all the way up. :eek:

Forget the jibber-jabber. Where did you come?

rainbow kirby

Cracking up at the headline here. I swear I'm not 12 :pac:

Krusty_Clown

What's wrong with this picture?

Someone clearly taking the pi$$ (I hope!)

asimonov

Now that's a proper send off.:)

robinph

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What's wrong with this picture?

Someone clearly taking the pi$$ (I hope!)

Nope, it's from the same country that brought us the headline "USA Wins 1-1".

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What's wrong with this picture?

Someone clearly taking the pi$$ (I hope!)

You guys just aint up to date with the USA they ahead of us with films and music and now news in fact 4 years ahead with the next world cup:p

T runner

mithril wrote: »

Brazil's apparent strong defence might have more to do with their ball retention abilities further up the park - it's difficult to score when you don't have the ball - but Real Madrid might have been a better example of the limitations of purely technically talented defenders.

Sorry aboiut delay replying to this.

The Italians, the best defenders in the world arguably, show how technical defending, reading a game, skill etc are more important than graft etc.

It's drifting a bit anyway from my point which was whether Terry was an outstanding, world class defender or not. The fact that he made the FIFA top 11 selection last year indicates that there is a wide consensus that he is.

The FIFA top 11 selection doesnt mean much to be honest. Its a publicity excercise. Terry was arguably out of position for 3 of Germanys goals against England.

I used to make statements like that myself, but when as poor a team as Greece won the European Championship in 2004 and a woeful German team got to the World Cup Final in 2002, I stopped doing so.

Even those teams did not play like England. England cant play possesion football. Without the ability to control possesion, they have no chance. Algeria for example were clearly more comfotable and competent than England in possesion of the football. Ill say it again, no team has won the world cup playing as England do since '66. And no one will win it again playing this style.

In a short series of games, pure luck can get a very limited team a long way.

Germany didnt get to the final in '02 by luck. Greece didnt win the European Cup by luck.

Anyway, hopefully well have a victory for football when Spain lift the cup.

mithril

T runner wrote: »

Sorry about delay replying to this.

So you should be.
I was bored at work all this week and I missed the opportunity to be argumentative until now.

T runner wrote: »

The Italians, the best defenders in the world arguably, show how technical defending, reading a game, skill etc are more important than graft etc.

It's not all or nothing. The tame, spiritless way they defended their title and went out in the opening round indicates other qualities are important as well other than comfort on the ball.

T runner wrote: »

The FIFA top 11 selection doesnt mean much to be honest. Its a publicity excercise. Terry was arguably out of position for 3 of Germanys goals against England.

You point about the quality of Terry's defending in the WC is valid.
He had a woeful world cup. So did a lot of the other players who are generally considered the best in the world in their positions e.g. Torres, Ronaldo, Messi etc.
You have to look at how well they have played over the preceding 4 years rather than in a short series of games however to assess their merits.

I used the FIFA top 11 selection as an example because it was chosen by votes of over 10,000 players rather than a clique. He would figure in any of the other generally accepted ranking systems over the last 4 years.

T runner wrote: »

Even those teams did not play like England. England cant play possesion football. Without the ability to control possesion, they have no chance. Algeria for example were clearly more comfotable and competent than England in possesion of the football. Ill say it again, no team has won the world cup playing as England do since '66. And no one will win it again playing this style.

I think you are too categorical but I am sure I won't be able to change your mind. In my experience, short series of games are decided by luck as much as by systems. In the last World Cup Zidane's sending-off in the WC final was decisive while the same is true of Melo's departure in the Netherlands/Brazil game.
The worst major side I ever saw was Germany in 2002 but they got all the way to the final largely due to a lucky draw which meant they did not have to play anyone major up to that point. 2 years later they could not make it out of the initial qualifying stage of the European Championship playing no better or no worse.

T runner wrote: »

Germany didnt get to the final in '02 by luck. Greece didnt win the European Cup by luck.

We will have to disagree on this regarding Germany in 2002.
Regarding Greece, I would add discipline to the mix as well.
It was very similar to Jack Charlton's sides, full of players from the English first and second divisions and every player defended and followed the manager's masterplan. The skill level in the side though was very low.

T runner wrote: »

Anyway, hopefully well have a victory for football when Spain lift the cup.

Yes, I would like to see Spain win as well for the same reason.

Woddle

mithril wrote: »

Yes, I would like to see Spain win as well for the same reason.

I must be in the minority but I find Spain a little boring, it just seems like alot of sideways passing and the odd time beat a player or two on the wing only to pass the ball back about 20 yards.
Very disappointed with this world cup, only a couple of games stood out.

RayCun

Yeah, I was hoping Germany would beat them.

Spain are very good at keeping possession, yes. But at least partly that's because they don't do anything to risk losing possession.

ThisRegard

Woddle wrote: »

I must be in the minority but I find Spain a little boring,

Isn't that just all football ?

RacoonQueen

Look at all this lovely rain. Had yesterday down as a designated rest day, it was lucky I had so much to do otherwise I'd have been out there running all night.

Great to see summer is here at long last. :pac:

ecoli

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Look at all this lovely rain. Had yesterday down as a designated rest day, it was lucky I had so much to do otherwise I'd have been out there running all night.

Great to see summer is here at long last. :pac:

Its oxygen weekend almost a given that it will be raining. Cant remember the last time it didnt

Pisco Sour

Greece may have been boring in 2004 but they were not lucky at all!

They beat Portugal, the host nation, not once but TWICE. Once you could pass off as luck, TWICE, no chance. They beat them in the first game of the competition, and everyone said it was a once off, and then when the 2 sides met in the last game of the competition they went and did the same thing again!

Also they beat France, and they beat the Czech Republic, who were the best team in the competition up to that point. And they drew with the Spanish 1-1. Where is the luck in that?

Also they became the first team ever to win a major championship by keeping a clean sheet in the Quarter Final, Semi Final AND the Final. No luck there. If you dont conceed, then you are not going to lose.

They were dull yes, but they were the best team in that competition and deserved the title.

I swear I'm not Greek!

P.S: In response to Germany in 2002 being the worst side to make a world cup final, try Argentina in 1990! They scored a whopping 5 goals in 7 games, came 3rd in their group, played Brazil in the 2nd round, were outplayed all game, had 1 shot on traget and won 1-0. Then they played for Penalties in the Quarter Final against Yugoslavia and the Semi Final against Italy and won both, and attempted the same tactics in the final against West Germany before losing to a very late penalty 1-0, and got 2 men sent off in the process! A far cry from the dazzling football they provided in 1986.

T runner

mithril wrote: »

It's not all or nothing. The tame, spiritless way they defended their title and went out in the opening round indicates other qualities are important as well other than comfort on the ball.[/COLOR]

I thought they showed plenty of spirit and passion myself. Just didnt have the players.



You point about the quality of Terry's defending in the WC is valid.
He had a woeful world cup. So did a lot of the other players who are generally considered the best in the world in their positions e.g. Torres, Ronaldo, Messi etc.

Torres was injured. Ronaldo and Messi had a mediocre world cup. Terry was at fault for 3 out of 4 world cup goals in a knock out match.

You have to look at how well they have played over the preceding 4 years rather than in a short series of games however to assess their merits.

Terry played in a good Chelsea team mainly alongside Carvahlo. When he played in a poor team with a mediocre defence he was exposed 3 times in a critical knock out match. Not world class unfortunately.

I used the FIFA top 11 selection as an example because it was chosen by votes of over 10,000 players rather than a clique. He would figure in any of the other generally accepted ranking systems over the last 4 years.

Who chooses the nominations?

Terry and Ferdinand were up against only a few other nominees mainly from teams who did not fare well in the champions league.

These are publicity stunts and meaningless.




In my experience, short series of games are decided by luck as much as by systems. In the last World Cup Zidane's sending-off in the WC final was decisive while the same is true of Melo's departure in the Netherlands/Brazil game.

Zidane's sending off in the world cup may have been decisive in that match (went to penalties). That is one match and not a short series of games. Italy beat a spirited German team playing at home in the semi, and had to beat a strong Australian challenge with only 10 men. These results had nothing to do with luck.

The worst major side I ever saw was Germany in 2002 but they got all the way to the final largely due to a lucky draw which meant they did not have to play anyone major up to that point.

They dominated all the matches up until the final. Luck had nothing to do with it. England arguably had a lucky draw this time also. If they won their group they're first "major" match was against the dutch in the semi.
What happenned them? were they unlucky? No! They werent good enough. Thats why they were eliminated. All their players have the same flaw: They cant play short passing possion football. Not a problem for teams with only the odd English player. A huge problem for teams with 11 English players.

T runner

mithril wrote: »

It's not all or nothing. The tame, spiritless way they defended their title and went out in the opening round indicates other qualities are important as well other than comfort on the ball.[/COLOR]

I thought they showed plenty of spirit and passion myself. Just didnt have the players.

You point about the quality of Terry's defending in the WC is valid.
He had a woeful world cup. So did a lot of the other players who are generally considered the best in the world in their positions e.g. Torres, Ronaldo, Messi etc.

Torres was injured. Ronaldo and Messi had a mediocre world cup. Terry was at fault for 3 out of 4 world cup goals in a knock out match.



Terry played in a good Chelsea team mainly alongside Carvahlo. When he played in a poor team with a mediocre defence he was exposed 3 times in a critical knock out match. Not world class unfortunately.

I used the FIFA top 11 selection as an example because it was chosen by votes of over 10,000 players rather than a clique. He would figure in any of the other generally accepted ranking systems over the last 4 years.

Who chooses the nominations?

Terry and Ferdinand were up against only a few other nominees mainly from teams who did not fare well in the champions league.

These are publicity stunts and meaningless.

In my experience, short series of games are decided by luck as much as by systems. In the last World Cup Zidane's sending-off in the WC final was decisive while the same is true of Melo's departure in the Netherlands/Brazil game.

Zidane's sending off in the world cup may have been decisive in that match (went to penalties). That is one match and not a short series of games. Italy beat a spirited German team playing at home in the semi, and had to beat a strong Australian challenge with only 10 men. These results had nothing to do with luck.



Germany dominated all the matches up until the final. Luck had nothing to do with it. England arguably had a lucky draw this time also. If they won their group they're first "major" match was against the dutch in the semi.
What happenned them? were they unlucky? No! They werent good enough. Thats why they were eliminated. All their players have the same flaw: They cant play short passing possesion football. Not a problem for teams with only the odd English player. A huge problem for teams with 11 English players.[/QUOTE]

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