Sports Matters - Setanta Ireland

Gavin "shels"

On tomorrow night at 10pm on Setanta Ireland, should be a good watch tbh.

22:00 Sport Matters - Freeview
The Wrong Trousers. Series looking at the forces shaping Sport in Ireland. This episode looks at the Irish obsession with English football.

applehunter

Can someone put this up on the site tomorrow.

Mr.Nice Guy

Anyone else watching this? I've missed the first 15 mins.

Gavin "shels"

Just in the door now so missed it, it's repeated on Sunday at 11pm so I'm going to watch it then.

OPENROAD

Gavin shels wrote: »

Just in the door now so missed it, it's repeated on Sunday at 11pm so I'm going to watch it then.

Completely forgot about it, will catch the repeat.

therecklessone

Watched the last five minutes of the first segment and it seemed to be very similar to the standard LOI vs EPL debate on here, including scorn for barstool fans

DSB

What a strange thing for a broadcaster of Premier League football to show.

Mr.Nice Guy

I missed a good bit of it so will try and catch the repeat too.

DSB wrote: »

What a strange thing for a broadcaster of Premier League football to show.

Yep. Same goes for Pat Dolan. :pac:

monkey9

DSB wrote: »

What a strange thing for a broadcaster of Premier League football to show.

True, but its Setanta so no-one's watching anyway

Gavin "shels"

Repeated tonight at 11pm for anyone who missed it.

civis_liberalis

Bump,

On in a few minutes.

LuckyLloyd

So, the business manager says that expenditure can be "40 - 45k a week", with an average attendance of "1600 - 1700" for home games that usually come every second week.

lol, cut your expenditure you morons!

LuckyLloyd

Another thing that irritates me on a general level with regards to sports documentaries these days is the rampant overuse of the Explosions In The Sky's "Friday Night Lights" soundtrack.

LuckyLloyd

Listening to Patrick Walker was genuinely interesting. He talked about his Norwegian club as being run for profit, about working collectively to improve the product his league puts out. About learning from other countries and internal successes and failures to figure out what works on the pitch and off it in the corporate sense.

By the sounds of things, his outfit is achieving miracles for a club in existence for just ten years.

OPENROAD

How much is admission price to a LOI match?

monkey9

OPENROAD wrote: »

How much is admission price to a LOI match?

In general, you're talking about 15 to 20 euro

LuckyLloyd

Thought the presenter did a very good job of playing devils advocate. Seemed to be well informed and had no problem interjecting when he felt the guests were fudging or wandering.

Thought the FAI guy did himself no harm either. His line about 'they've been building teams, not clubs' was a good soundbite. And the overall idea of reigning people in financially before progress can be made makes sense.

Finally, I strongly agree with Nick Leeson when he says that clubs in rag order should be allowed to go to the wall - and that you need to slim the league down with a 'survival of the fittest' type philosophy.

OPENROAD

Who was the guy in the suit who said the loi should not be run as a business, was he referring to the actual clubs.

Gavin "shels"

Thought it was very good, minus Patrick Walker and Padraig Smith who both seemed to be talking out their arse (no surprise there from Padraig). Niall Fitzmaurice and Micheal Nugent both made some very value points in the first quarter of the show. And Nick Leeson made some good points.

LuckyLloyd

Gavin shels wrote: »

Thought it was very good, minus Patrick Walker and Padraig Smith who both seemed to be talking out there arse (no surprise there from Padraig). Niall Fitzmaurice and Micheal Nugent both made some very value points in the first quarter of the show. And Nick Leeson made some good points.

?

Walker avoided any real commentary on the LOI tbf, and seemed uncomfortable when asked to talk about what is being done right or wrong over here. He mostly talked about his own career and his own club and league, and I don't know how one could claim that he was talking "out there arse" on those subjects.

Gavin "shels"

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

?

Walker avoided any real commentary on the LOI tbf, and seemed uncomfortable when asked to talk about what is being done right or wrong over here. He mostly talked about his own career and his own club and league, and I don't know how one could claim that he was talking "out there arse" on those subjects.

He was asked something about how the League could change and he started waffling on of how the Scandinavian leagues have gone about things, even though he said he didn't know anything about the league. I suppose in the context of talking out his arse, he wasn't really.

Still trying to figure out why he was even on the show?

LuckyLloyd

Gavin shels wrote: »

Still trying to figure out why he was even on the show?

Because he's the Irish manager of a club located in a town of 40k people, and in the space of 10 years they've managed to get into the top division in Norway and build their own 10k all seater stadium.

Should be clear enough the contrast they are trying to illustrate.

SectionF

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

he's the Irish manager of a club located in a town of 40k people, and in the space of 10 years they've managed to get into the top division in Norway and build their own 10k* all seater stadium.

This was the most significant point in the entire show. Investors had to be persuaded that this venture would work. So what's the difference? Has Norway just got a better football culture?

*Actually 9k

stovelid

SectionF wrote: »

Has Norway just got a better football culture?

I stayed in Bergen for a while, albeit a long time ago - a few years into the 'sky revolution'. One thing I was struck by, among the few lads I knew at least, was how they were mad about an English club, but also supported their own team. They were surprised when I told them that not only did most Irish people ignore their own league, but actively denigrated -and were ashamed of - it.

Perhaps it's the same all over Norway?

civis_liberalis

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

?

Walker avoided any real commentary on the LOI tbf, and seemed uncomfortable when asked to talk about what is being done right or wrong over here.

Exactly, and rightly so. He hasn't been involved in the League since the early 80's. He may have a good idea what was the reason for the rise of Norwegian football in general, but he was quick to point out that Irish football will have to find it's own way forward.

Among other things, Nick Leeson mentioned the importance of youth development, but I see little evidence of him ever having back that up, with anything concrete.

anonymous_joe

stovelid wrote: »

I stayed in Bergen for a while, albeit a long time ago - a few years into the 'sky revolution'. One thing I was struck by, among the few lads I knew at least, was how they were mad about an English club, but also supported their own team. They were surprised when I told them that not only did most Irish people ignore their own league, but actively denigrated -and were ashamed of - it.

Perhaps it's the same all over Norway?

I actually used to know a lad from Bergen back in the day.

The big difference is that England's closer to us. Not only do we have access to their media, they've access to all our players. Most good Norwegian players end up in England via Norway. Most Irish players of quality never play in the Irish league system. Kevin Doyle's the exception. Guys end up at Liverpool, City, United, Leeds, etc, sure back in the days of O'Leary Leeds had a huge number of young Irish guys.

That means the 'product' on offer in Ireland is of a lower quality, and fans know that.

Also, there's little history of supporting clubs here. Shamrock Rovers have wandered across Dublin to the extent that you've no idea who they represent. (Theoretically, being from Ringsend originally they would have been the closest Irish club to mine). Bohemians are representing a smaller area than the whole Northside, same with Shels. The clubs are too small for the area. Dublin's a city of a million, a club like Manchester United or City probably has a million fans all of its own. That guarentees a steady stream of quality players and fans, lots of fans.

If we had two teams in Dublin it might make more sense, from a football-business perspective. Anyway, until money comes into Irish domestic football the quality won't massively increase, and that won't happen without fans, who won't come until quality increases.

SectionF

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Bohemians are representing a smaller area than the whole Northside,

A poll of where BFC fans puts just 42% in north Dublin. Majority of the rest are north county, south county, and Meath.

Think you may have forgotten a couple of players in your who-fluked-it-to-the-bigtime analysis, though in essence it is historically accurate. But that route, as we painfully have seen with the boys in green, is firmly pointed towards reserves, lower Prem, and Championship these days, and if anything is likely to go lower still.

Zatman

Brought couple of friends from Sweden to a Bohs/Rovers game last year and they werent impressed with the football especially when i said it was the biggest game in Ireland. They thought it was equivalent to their 3rd division and found it very dead lacking any skill.
Funny enough Pats beat Elfsborg 2 weeks later. Still havent heard a reply about that game.

But for them it was enjoyable but terrible standard of football. For 20 quid you can see a better standard game over there. If people visiting think the game is not great how will that encourage fickle Liverpoo/ Man Utd fans from going to games

monkey9

Zatman wrote: »

Brought couple of friends from Sweden to a Bohs/Rovers game last year and they werent impressed with the football especially when i said it was the biggest game in Ireland. They thought it was equivalent to their 3rd division and found it very dead lacking any skill.
Funny enough Pats beat Elfsborg 2 weeks later. Still havent heard a reply about that game.

But for them it was enjoyable but terrible standard of football. For 20 quid you can see a better standard game over there. If people visiting think the game is not great how will that encourage fickle Liverpoo/ Man Utd fans from going to games

Well, you should have brought them to a Pat's game instead. The home of football!!!

Zatman

Dalyer was closest stadium to theri house and going to Pats would have been a trek to Deep South not my sort of place

SectionF

Zatman wrote: »

Brought couple of friends from Sweden to a Bohs/Rovers game last year and they werent impressed with the football especially when i said it was the biggest game in Ireland. They thought it was equivalent to their 3rd division and found it very dead lacking any skill.
Funny enough Pats beat Elfsborg 2 weeks later. Still havent heard a reply about that game.

But for them it was enjoyable but terrible standard of football. For 20 quid you can see a better standard game over there. If people visiting think the game is not great how will that encourage fickle Liverpoo/ Man Utd fans from going to games

It was a Dublin derby, which is good for passion but rarely a showcase for fluid football; and I think even Rovers will admit they were pretty much rubbish last year, when they were easily whitewashed by the black and red.

stovelid

Zatman wrote: »

and they werent impressed with the football

.

Zatman wrote: »

Liverpool fans

monkey9

Zatman wrote: »

Dalyer was closest stadium to theri house and going to Pats would have been a trek to Deep South not my sort of place

Haha!! The deep south. :pac: You'd swear you were a black lad in the sixties walking hand in hand with a white girl in Misississippi.
Sure i'm living on the North side, born and bred and i always make the sacred pilgrimage.

anonymous_joe

SectionF wrote: »

A poll of where BFC fans puts just 42% in north Dublin. Majority of the rest are north county, south county, and Meath.

Think you may have forgotten a couple of players in your who-fluked-it-to-the-bigtime analysis, though in essence it is historically accurate. But that route, as we painfully have seen with the boys in green, is firmly pointed towards reserves, lower Prem, and Championship these days, and if anything is likely to go lower still.

Well the English league is jammed with talent, so there's even less space for our lads and English lads. Not going to help us at all.

And I don't know much about Bohs or any Irish domestic team if I'm honest.

Zatman wrote: »

Brought couple of friends from Sweden to a Bohs/Rovers game last year and they werent impressed with the football especially when i said it was the biggest game in Ireland. They thought it was equivalent to their 3rd division and found it very dead lacking any skill.
Funny enough Pats beat Elfsborg 2 weeks later. Still havent heard a reply about that game.

But for them it was enjoyable but terrible standard of football. For 20 quid you can see a better standard game over there. If people visiting think the game is not great how will that encourage fickle Liverpoo/ Man Utd fans from going to games

We play English football. So do Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. Once upon a time Scotland's was known for great passing, etc. But now we all play the same, a game with very little emphasis on technique, and a lot on pace, power and tempo. In the Premiership, with access to some of the world's best that can look amazing, but outside of the top divisions it's a lot less aesthetically appealling.