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    #512
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭phog


    castie wrote: »
    I cant see anything in the laws that you must aim for the posts though.

    The reason to pick it is thats its guaranteed. The other options you mentioned come with risk.

    In a game in TP I think, ROG indicated that he would kick for the the posts, he then noticed a winger all alone on the wing and realised that a try was on and joked to the ref could he miss hit the kick.


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    #513
    Downtime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭Downtime


    phog wrote: »
    In a game in TP I think, ROG indicated that he would kick for the the posts, he then noticed a winger all alone on the wing and realised that a try was on and joked to the ref could he miss hit the kick.

    Neil Jenkins once scored for Wales in a similar circumstance. He put the ball down on the ground for a penalty kick. The opposition turned around and walked towards the posts. He tapped and scored.


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    #514
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,766 ✭✭✭cython


    Downtime wrote: »
    Neil Jenkins once scored for Wales in a similar circumstance. He put the ball down on the ground for a penalty kick. The opposition turned around and walked towards the posts. He tapped and scored.

    The difference there is that Jenkins probably hadn't actually indicated to the posts. Up until that point, the other team should not turn their backs. Once the posts have been indicated, however, minds can't be changed


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    #515
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Downtime wrote: »
    Neil Jenkins once scored for Wales in a similar circumstance. He put the ball down on the ground for a penalty kick. The opposition turned around and walked towards the posts. He tapped and scored.

    As did David Humphreys for Ulster.


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    #516
    DerTierarzt
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭DerTierarzt


    phog wrote: »
    As did David Humphreys for Ulster.

    I remember that, he took off his scrum cap, normally his cue that he was going to kick at goal! Anyone have a video of it? Also, is it possible to score a drop goal from behind the posts? And finally, what is stopping someone getting on top of the crossbar and blocking down a penalty or conversion kick?


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    #517
    kensutz
    Registered Users Posts: 9,187 ✭✭✭kensutz


    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    Also, is it possible to score a drop goal from behind the posts?

    Didn't you already ask this last week?


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    #518
    kensutz
    Registered Users Posts: 9,187 ✭✭✭kensutz


    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    Can one do a drop kick from behind the posts?
    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    Okay, last one. Remember Stephen Jones missing that long range penalty, thus handing Ireland the Grand Slam? What was stopping Paulie giving Donners a leg up onto the posts, and him slapping it away should it have been close enough and potentially going over?
    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    I remember that, he took off his scrum cap, normally his cue that he was going to kick at goal! Anyone have a video of it? Also, is it possible to score a drop goal from behind the posts? And finally, what is stopping someone getting on top of the crossbar and blocking down a penalty or conversion kick?

    I knew I saw them before and wasn't imagining it.


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    #519
    DerTierarzt
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭DerTierarzt


    No one answered it.


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    #520
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    Also, is it possible to score a drop goal from behind the posts?

    No, it's not. Plus you'd be stupid to try considering you could just touch it down for more points.
    And finally, what is stopping someone getting on top of the crossbar and blocking down a penalty or conversion kick?

    Law 9.A.2 (d) wrote:
    Any player who touches the ball in an attempt to prevent a penalty goal being scored is illegally touching the ball.
    Sanction: Penalty kick
    Law 21.5 wrote:
    If the kicker indicates to the referee the intent to kick at goal, the opposing team must stand still with their hands by their sides from the time the kicker starts to approach to kick until the ball is kicked.


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    #521
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,223 ✭✭✭✭phog


    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    No one answered it.

    I thought I did :confused:--
    phog wrote: »
    Why would anyone want to do a drop kick from behind the posts, surely you'd touch it down for a try.:confused:


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    #522
    DerTierarzt
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭DerTierarzt


    "That would be stupid" is not really an answer, nor is "just touch it down for the try". If you were running away with a game, and wanted to showboat, I have yet to hear a compelling argument why one cannot score a drop goal from behind the posts.


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    #523
    kensutz
    Registered Users Posts: 9,187 ✭✭✭kensutz


    Because it could be seen as against the spirit of good sportsmanship and ping them for it.

    PK under law 10.4 (m)

    10.4 (m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.
    Sanction: Penalty kick

    But in all honesty, yes it is a stupid idea and one you would never see happen.


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    #524
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    kensutz wrote: »
    Because it could be seen as against the spirit of good sportsmanship and ping them for it.

    PK under law 10.4 (m)

    10.4 (m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.
    Sanction: Penalty kick

    But in all honesty, yes it is a stupid idea and one you would never see happen.


    10.4 should of been used on ashton then.
    I doubt it would get pinged but the question is does it count as 3 points.

    Hes not looking to actually go out and do the dam thing hes just curious.

    Seems here curiousity gets you flamed.


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    #525
    daveharnett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭daveharnett


    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    Also, is it possible to score a drop goal from behind the posts?
    Yes, but not in the way you are thinking. The ball has to go over the crossbar in the 'right' direction (ie. from the field of play, toward the dead ball line). Imagine the scenario where a penalty is initially 'missed', then the wind holds the ball up in-goal, and blows the ball through the posts in the wrong direction - no score.

    So, if you can take the kick from beyond the goal line such that it goes into the field of play, and then bends through the posts, fill your boots.

    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    And finally, what is stopping someone getting on top of the crossbar and blocking down a penalty or conversion kick?
    Somebody cited the law wrt penalties. For other types of shot at goal, I think it's an IRB directive rather than law that covers this (it was allowed until ~5 years ago). For the kicks at goal which may be blocked (conversion/dg), they may only be blocked while the ball is still rising. Once it starts dropping, the non-kicking can't interfere with it (with the intention of preventing a score - they may of course catch it/mark it/whatever if it is clearly not going over the bar).


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    #526
    daveharnett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭daveharnett


    castie wrote: »
    10.4 should of been used on ashton then.
    A thousand times yes. You'd have thought a Johnson sized shoe up the hole would have sorted it on the first occasion, but apparently the boy won't learn.


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    #527
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    For the swan dives ?? surely a pen against him for that would be excessive, and where would you draw the line at try dives?


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    #528
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    Shelflife wrote: »
    For the swan dives ?? surely a pen against him for that would be excessive, and where would you draw the line at try dives?

    I was just making the point that people do not get penalised for showboating.


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    #529
    daveharnett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭daveharnett


    Shelflife wrote: »
    For the swan dives ?? surely a pen against him for that would be excessive
    I don't disagree, but I can dream can't I?

    The real penalty will come on the day (please let it come!) when he makes a hash of it and knocks one on :D


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    #530
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Cant say that i like it either, but it will catch up with him someday and with a big price id say.


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    #531
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    daveharnett wrote: »
    Somebody cited the law wrt penalties. For other types of shot at goal, I think it's an IRB directive rather than law that covers this (it was allowed until ~5 years ago). For the kicks at goal which may be blocked (conversion/dg), they may only be blocked while the ball is still rising. Once it starts dropping, the non-kicking can't interfere with it (with the intention of preventing a score - they may of course catch it/mark it/whatever if it is clearly not going over the bar).

    What about a driven penalty that just about clears the crossbar? It will still be on its way up or at the very least level as it goes over.


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    #532
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    What about a driven penalty that just about clears the crossbar? It will still be on its way up or at the very least level as it goes over.

    For a penalty you cant interfere with the ball.
    Law says something along the lines of standing still with your hands by your side.


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    #533
    milosh
    Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭milosh


    Can a mark be called from a penalty or a drop goal or a re-start? You never see it done.


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    #534
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    castie wrote: »
    For a penalty you cant interfere with the ball.
    Law says something along the lines of standing still with your hands by your side.

    Sorry I actually meant to say conversion. typed penalty without even realising :) Was thinking more about the climbing the posts or lifting someone above the level of the crossbar apect when it's ablockable kick.


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    #535
    castie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭castie


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Sorry I actually meant to say conversion. typed penalty without even realising :) Was thinking more about the climbing the posts or lifting someone above the level of the crossbar apect when it's ablockable kick.

    Pretty sure you cant interfere with the posts for kicks.
    Remember a J4 game where a guy was shaking the posts to put the kicker off.
    He missed, ref brought the penalty 10 metres further up for the infringement.


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    #536
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭karlitob


    Shelflife wrote: »
    The answer has been given. You must aim for goal if you intention. Penalty against you if you do not under ungentlemanly conduct rules. Please move on.

    Karlitob as far as im aware you are not the ref of this forum, just because you tell us to move on doesnt make it so. i hope that you dont ref in the same manner. you need to give people/teams some latitude otherwise you will stifle the game/forum.

    You should know that most of the laws are interperted by the refs and therefore we will get different outcomes.

    you classify it as ungentlemanly conduct and give a pen. castie sees it differently and gives a scrum or lineout, neither of you right or wrong its down to your individual interpertations and what you feel happened at that time.

    "Not the ref of the boards" - very clever.

    As you say, opinions given by each poster were lineout, scrum and penalty. Since they are the only options available after that scenario then I think its time to move on. No other restart is available.


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    #537
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭karlitob


    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    "That would be stupid" is not really an answer, nor is "just touch it down for the try". If you were running away with a game, and wanted to showboat, I have yet to hear a compelling argument why one cannot score a drop goal from behind the posts.

    I've already answered it. Check your posts.


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    #538
    DerTierarzt
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭DerTierarzt


    karlitob wrote: »
    I've already answered it. Check your posts.

    You gave your opinion, and didn't really back it up. But your input was welcome nonetheless.


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    #539
    danthefan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭danthefan


    milosh wrote: »
    Can a mark be called from a penalty or a drop goal or a re-start? You never see it done.

    Definitely not from a restart anyway.


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    #540
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭karlitob


    DerTierarzt wrote: »
    You gave your opinion, and didn't really back it up. But your input was welcome nonetheless.

    No, I answered it. Post 462. Phog also answered it.

    I gave my opinion of my interpretation of the laws. Thats why you posted on the forum - to have questions answered, we did.


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    #541
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,589 ✭✭✭karlitob


    milosh wrote: »
    Can a mark be called from a penalty or a drop goal or a re-start? You never see it done.

    Downtime gave a great answer on this one already. Post 380.

    Yes, it can be marked from a peno or drop but not from a restart.


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