Laws Question? Ask here!

Jawgap · 19-10-2011 1:34pm

daveharnett wrote: »

............who could be totally the wrong shape for the job. Add in the fact that there is always the possibility of a second row having a brain fart and engaging normally,............

FYP:D

castie · 20-10-2011 2:36am

daveharnett wrote: »

Bear in mind that you have now got a player in the front row who has (in all probability) never played there before, and who could be totally the wrong shape for the job. Add in the fact that there is always the possibility of a second row having a brain fart and engaging normally, a prop taking it into his head to have a little go at the newbie etc...

Binding also keeps the players stuck to the scrum that bit longer, giving the pretty boys a chance to do their thing. A loosehead can pop out the side almost as fast as a flanker if there is no bind/pressure from the lock.

Whenever a team went uncontested against me as A TH.
I held my bind as tight as possible to prevent the loosehead (usually a flanker..cheating piece of....) from breaking.

The amount of guys that went to the ref and actually complained about me binding. Puzzled look on the ref was priceless.

Ste_D · 21-10-2011 7:31pm

I heard talk that in future if a team lose a prop and dont have a replacement, then the ref can decide to go for uncontested scrums but the team are not allowed to replace the prop. They have to play with 14 men. This sounds like a really good idea to me, anyone know anything solid about this??

Losty Dublin · 21-10-2011 9:19pm

Ste_D wrote: »

I heard talk that in future if a team lose a prop and dont have a replacement, then the ref can decide to go for uncontested scrums but the team are not allowed to replace the prop. They have to play with 14 men. This sounds like a really good idea to me, anyone know anything solid about this??

Have you a source and some clearer facts about this before people can comment on same, please?

Ste_D · 22-10-2011 12:44pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Have you a source and some clearer facts about this before people can comment on same, please?

No, it was just an idea i heard thrown around, I was mentioning it to see if anybody has some facts!!

Downtime · 22-10-2011 7:58pm

Ste_D wrote: »

I heard talk that in future if a team lose a prop and dont have a replacement, then the ref can decide to go for uncontested scrums but the team are not allowed to replace the prop. They have to play with 14 men. This sounds like a really good idea to me, anyone know anything solid about this??

With rolling substitutions, if you have used all your substitutions, and then lose a prop, you cannot replace him and have to go uncontested.

Losty Dublin · 23-10-2011 6:15pm

Downtime wrote: »

With rolling substitutions, if you have used all your substitutions, and then lose a prop, you cannot replace him and have to go uncontested.

Just to back this up...

http://www.arlb.ie/?page_id=984

7. After all 12 changes have been made, no other changes will be allowed for whatever reason including injuries. If, after the 12 changes have been made there is any reason for a player to leave the field of play, the team must play on with one less player. Uncontested scrums will apply if this involves a front-row player.

daveharnett · 25-10-2011 2:58pm

Ste_D wrote: »

I heard talk that in future if a team lose a prop and dont have a replacement, then the ref can decide to go for uncontested scrums but the team are not allowed to replace the prop. They have to play with 14 men. This sounds like a really good idea to me, anyone know anything solid about this??

First of all, a team cannot have any substitutes unless they have front rows on the bench: http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/2/3/21/before-the-match/number-of-players-the-team/suitably-trained-and-experienced-players-in-the-front-row/#clause_21

AFAIR, the notion you describe was being kicked around for a while, but was abandoned when Law 3.14 (the 2nd substitute prop) was introduced.

I like the idea of discouraging teams from faking injuries, but this would introduce the danger of a frontrow with a real injury staying on when he shouldn't.

castie · 25-10-2011 11:28pm

daveharnett wrote: »

First of all, a team cannot have any substitutes unless they have front rows on the bench: http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/2/3/21/before-the-match/number-of-players-the-team/suitably-trained-and-experienced-players-in-the-front-row/#clause_21

AFAIR, the notion you describe was being kicked around for a while, but was abandoned when Law 3.14 (the 2nd substitute prop) was introduced.

I like the idea of discouraging teams from faking injuries, but this would introduce the danger of a frontrow with a real injury staying on when he shouldn't.

This is not enforced in Leinster Im sure of.

In Munster its one sub front row enforced.

Losty Dublin · 26-10-2011 12:24am

daveharnett wrote: »

First of all, a team cannot have any substitutes unless they have front rows on the bench: http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/2/3/21/before-the-match/number-of-players-the-team/suitably-trained-and-experienced-players-in-the-front-row/#clause_21

Dave, as per that rule the suitable cover for the front row need not be on the bench; they can be players on the starting 15.

Downtime · 26-10-2011 8:24am

castie wrote: »

This is not enforced in Leinster Im sure of.

In Munster its one sub front row enforced.

It is enforced in Leinster. If you have no FRR you cannot have any subs. This is not a province by province thing - it is a rugby law. Provinces may only decide on the number of allowed subs per competition.

castie · 26-10-2011 9:43am

Downtime wrote: »

It is enforced in Leinster. If you have no FRR you cannot have any subs. This is not a province by province thing - it is a rugby law. Provinces may only decide on the number of allowed subs per competition.

J4 and J5 do not have this in Leinster

Downtime · 26-10-2011 12:40pm

castie wrote: »

J4 and J5 do not have this in Leinster

You are correct with regard to J5. Only in the J5 League are FRR not required. The J4 League requires 2 FRR as do the other 26 competitions.

castie · 28-10-2011 6:41am

Downtime wrote: »

You are correct with regard to J5. Only in the J5 League are FRR not required. The J4 League requires 2 FRR as do the other 26 competitions.

Then its not enforced as ive been on teams with none and none declared yet still had other subs.

I didnt say the rule wasnt there.

Samich · 01-11-2011 2:06am

Whats the law on 21mm studs? legal or not?

And in u-14 are players only allowed kick inside their 22?

Fishooks12 · 01-11-2011 12:40pm

Samich wrote: »

Whats the law on 21mm studs? legal or not?

And in u-14 are players only allowed kick inside their 22?

not sure about the studs rule but the kicking part is correct

daveharnett · 02-11-2011 10:51am

Samich wrote: »

Whats the law on 21mm studs? legal or not?

Legal.

Regulation 12, Appendix 2

Studs/cleats of player’s boots must conform with IRB Specifications
(Regulation 12), must not be longer than 21 mm, and must not have any
burring or sharp edges.

Downtime · 02-11-2011 7:34pm

Samich wrote: »

Whats the law on 21mm studs? legal or not?

And in u-14 are players only allowed kick inside their 22?

In U14 normal rules apply to kicking from within own 22 and from penalties. Outside of own 22, then the team kicking the ball must retain possession from the kick; if they fail to do so and there is no advantage to the opposition, then a scrum will be awarded to the opposition at the spot from where the ball was kicked.

Shelflife · 05-11-2011 8:05pm

In Connacht we have been told to ignore these "local" rules and implement irfu rules only.

Shelflife · 05-11-2011 8:12pm

Team A have the ball, a maul is formed and team A are moving forward at a rate of knots, the maul collapses.

am i correct to say that it now becomes a ruck and team B must release the ball and the players and roll away, if the ball in unplayable do team A get the put in.

if the maul collapses and team b prevent the ball from going to ground what is the call.

Gargled · 05-11-2011 11:35pm

Shelflife wrote: »

Team A have the ball, a maul is formed and team A are moving forward at a rate of knots, the maul collapses.

am i correct to say that it now becomes a ruck and team B must release the ball and the players and roll away, if the ball in unplayable do team A get the put in.

if the maul collapses and team b prevent the ball from going to ground what is the call.

No, the laws for a collapsed maul are different to rucking laws. There was a clarification this year that if a maul collapses, any players legally taking part in the maul have no obligation to roll away or release the ball. The maul has come to an unsuccessful end and team B get the put in to the scrum

Not sure what you mean by prevent the ball from going to ground. Hope this helps

daveharnett · 06-11-2011 2:21am

Shelflife wrote: »

Team A have the ball, a maul is formed and team A are moving forward at a rate of knots, the maul collapses.

am i correct to say that it now becomes a ruck and team B must release the ball and the players and roll away, if the ball in unplayable do team A get the put in.

A maul can't become a ruck. No obligation for anybody to release, and unless the ball is immediately available, scrum to B.

07-11-2011 3:22pm

Quick Question - What constitutes as a tackle because I have seen some players been allowed to get up and play as they were not deemed to be held and other players adjudged to be held in the tackle when it does not look like they were?

I believe this area of the game is getting more difficult to officiate as players are tackling and rolling away from being in an offside position much quicker in recent times so as to avoid giving away a penalty...

Losty Dublin · 07-11-2011 4:26pm

07438991 wrote: »

Quick Question - What constitutes as a tackle because I have seen some players been allowed to get up and play as they were not deemed to be held and other players adjudged to be held in the tackle when it does not look like they were?

It's a tackle when ball carrier is held and brought to ground by an opposing player/s. The tackler/s are the players who bring you to ground while the tackled player is the ball carried brought to ground. As per the law book, once one knee touches the ground you are deemed to be brought to ground and hence a tackle is made and the obligation to release come into play.

07438991 wrote: »

I believe this area of the game is getting more difficult to officiate as players are tackling and rolling away from being in an offside position much quicker in recent times so as to avoid giving away a penalty...

What makes it harder for referees are players who don't know the rules at the breakdown

07-11-2011 4:43pm

I mean what constitutes as a player being held in the tackle...? I don't think it was clarified too well...

Losty Dublin · 07-11-2011 4:56pm

07438991 wrote: »

I mean what constitutes as a player being held in the tackle...? I don't think it was clarified too well...

What I stated above is a tackle. If a player isn't brought to ground by an opponent then no tackle has taken place.

Shelflife · 07-11-2011 7:07pm

We had it clarified at a recent meeting.

where a player is tackled and brought to ground then he is deemed to be tackled and must release the ball.

even if it appears that the tackler has never held him on the ground but has brought him to ground then he is deemed to be held and must release the ball.

a foot tap does not constitute being held and the player may get up and play on.

08-11-2011 4:17pm

Shelflife wrote: »

We had it clarified at a recent meeting.

where a player is tackled and brought to ground then he is deemed to be tackled and must release the ball.

even if it appears that the tackler has never held him on the ground but has brought him to ground then he is deemed to be held and must release the ball.

a foot tap does not constitute being held and the player may get up and play on.

Who's we...? Getting very official. Alain Rolland is that you...? :P

Shelflife · 08-11-2011 5:52pm

07438991 wrote: »

Who's we...? Getting very official. Alain Rolland is that you...? :P

At a recent refs meeting, we being the local eejits who ref in the west

Downtime · 10-11-2011 10:01am

Downtime wrote: »

In U14 normal rules apply to kicking from within own 22 and from penalties. Outside of own 22, then the team kicking the ball must retain possession from the kick; if they fail to do so and there is no advantage to the opposition, then a scrum will be awarded to the opposition at the spot from where the ball was kicked.

This is now gone. Normal kicking rules apply in U13 and U14.

Laws Question? Ask here!

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