Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
GRA and mortgages
Options
Comments
-
People in Dublin were treated like pompus pr*cks just for expecting to be able to afford a house in the town/city/suburb where they were brought up.
Your not entitled to a house in the area you grew up. The prices were determined by the market, you can't complain about that. What did you want the government to do? Block the investor market entirely so you could afford a house?The pressure to get somewhere to live in Dublin was very real. I've argued this on before here, a house is for living in, it's a roof over your head, for shelter and heat. You can either live in a house or you are homeless, it's that simple. The banks and government (by way of policy decisions), encouraged investors to buy to let and drove up the price of property for every person who just wanted a house to live in.
You can rent, you don't have to buy the house you live in.And don't anyone come back here and say I should have rented, why the f*ck should I rent because I just happen to have been born in Dublin???
Its not because you were born in Dublin, plenty of people in the countryside have to rent as well because they can't afford a house. You do it because you can't afford the alternative.The mantra was "if you don't buy now, you'll be trapped in a situation where you will not be able to buy this time next year and you'll be trapped in a rental situation for the rest of your life"...
Who want's that??? Anyone who bought a house on the back of this message was not selfish or greedy, they just wanted a house to live in and NOBODY wants to be paying rent and paying into someone elses retirement fund.
Ah come on, like people didn't know the arse end of property was going to fall out of it. All you have to do is read between the lines that the politicians were shouting and it would have been clear that the property market here wasn't going to last forever. I had pressure put on me to buy a house by family, I told them to fook off and mind their own business and that I couldn't afford a house and in my opinion they were going to end up in trouble for paying that much for their houses because they weren't worth that much which you can work out by looking at how people were affording these homes. People were getting deposits off parents to buy houses and that was obviously not sustainable as there are few people in that position.
I rent and I'm happy renting and the landlords aren't making that much money considering the upkeep on the houses they own. Report anything that needs to be replaced and threaten to move out if they refuse to do it and move out if they don't do it into a house with a decent landlord or ask if you can replace it yourself if you want something replaced that badly and the landlord won't pay for it.Anyone who started hoovering up investment properties, has caused this problem.
They contributed, anyone that thought the prices were going to increase for the next 10 years after it had already been going on for about 10 years caused this problem TBH. Anyone that refused to rent and bought even though they couldn't afford it caused this problem.0 -
How the hell did I get subscribed to this thread?0
-
By me screwing up a thread merge. Just unsubscribe using the "Thread tools" link near the top.0
-
Ah come on, like people didn't know the arse end of property was going to fall out of it. All you have to do is read between the lines that the politicians were shouting and it would have been clear that the property market here wasn't going to last forever.
the really scary thing is that this didn't hold true for many people. They actually thought that we'd have a nice soft landing, and that was only if things didn't keep rising.
The amount of my friends who in last 2 - 3 years who bought was frightening. 1 or 2 actually got pretty good deals and did it the right way, by saving for a deposit, with a bit of help from family and got a decent sized mortgage on the basis of their wages. they're sitting happy enough right now. But the vast majority went out and borrowed silly money on 100% deals to buy shoddy and small apartments and duplexes in all sorts of places, leaving them with long commutes to work and no social life.
Its now very sad hearing them talk about the depreciation in their properties value. None of this would be a problem really if these were places that they could have stayed in for a number of years and weathered the storm, but the reality is most of the properties they bought are totally unsuitable for their future needs i.e raising kids and their all stuck now.
all the recriminations won't do us any good now though. We need to pull together and get through this. people like the GRA are just going to have to deal with their mistakes in buying over-valued property (because like any investment, prices cal go down as well as up) and press on as best we can. There isn't going to be an easy way out for anyone, Public or Private sector0 -
Mystik Monkey wrote: »the really scary thing is that this didn't hold true for many people. They actually thought that we'd have a nice soft landing, and that was only if things didn't keep rising.
The amount of my friends who in last 2 - 3 years who bought was frightening. 1 or 2 actually got pretty good deals and did it the right way, by saving for a deposit, with a bit of help from family and got a decent sized mortgage on the basis of their wages. they're sitting happy enough right now. But the vast majority went out and borrowed silly money on 100% deals to buy shoddy and small apartments and duplexes in all sorts of places, leaving them with long commutes to work and no social life.
Its now very sad hearing them talk about the depreciation in their properties value. None of this would be a problem really if these were places that they could have stayed in for a number of years and weathered the storm, but the reality is most of the properties they bought are totally unsuitable for their future needs i.e raising kids and their all stuck now.
all the recriminations won't do us any good now though. We need to pull together and get through this. people like the GRA are just going to have to deal with their mistakes in buying over-valued property (because like any investment, prices cal go down as well as up) and press on as best we can. There isn't going to be an easy way out for anyone, Public or Private sector
If people didn't realise it, hard luck but what do they expect people like me that didn't fook up to do. Bail them out? I didn't wish for a crash but I knew it would come so I didn't buy into this nonsense even after I was offered a deposit from my mother. I said, this can't go on much longer because too many people are doing this to buy houses, the prices will fall in the next few years.
I basically hoped against hope we would get a soft landing but I knew it probably wouldn't happen.
I take no pleasure in seeing my friends and family up to their eye balls in debt on properties that are only worth half what they paid when the economy is in such a state that it would be hard to sell these houses even at market prices. I see no pleasure in the entire company going down with this market because of lack of investment to bring other industries to the front by our government not that it would have made much difference given its an international crisis and all purchasing is down so demand for almost all products is down.
There won't be an easy way out, the government can't afford to bail anyone out. The GRA are deluded about the governments current financial position if they are even asking for the government to do something about this. This is going to be a painful recession for our country as a lot of people I fear will end up defaulting on mortgages because there is no other choice. There is little the government can do. The banks can't lend because they need money and they can't get money from the International markets so they have to get at least some of it from the existing assets (mortgages) on their books as they are repaid. We can't afford to let people away with not paying and if you create exemption rules, people will exploit them that aren't in trouble.
Its just going to be a rough ride that isn't going to be pleasant for anyone.0 -
Advertisement
-
Your not entitled to a house in the area you grew up. The prices were determined by the market, you can't complain about that. What did you want the government to do? Block the investor market entirely so you could afford a house?
I never said I was "entitled" to a house in the area I'm from. But there is something wrong I think when I cannot by virtue of the fact that vested interests are being catered for, work hard and buy a house in the city that I am from. The market was distorted, people were allowed into the market to invest, on the same terms as people who were in the market to buy a house to live in. This never should have been allowed to happen. The outcome now as we all know has been far flung housing estates miles away from where the residents of those houses are working. Who benefits there??? Nobody except the people who built the houses and the government who made a tax windfall from it.
There is such a thing as a "win-win" solution, where the solution can suit citizens, government and businesses, but in all this crap that was going on, nobody was advocating on behalf of the people of this country, funny that, when you think why we elect a government, to represent people, but we have a government that has said to itself, "f*ck the people who vote, we represent big builders/developers and businesses"...0 -
This post has been deleted.0
-
There is such a thing as a "win-win" solution, where the solution can suit citizens, government and businesses, but in all this crap that was going on, nobody was advocating on behalf of the people of this country, funny that, when you think why we elect a government, to represent people, but we have a government that has said to itself, "f*ck the people who vote, we represent big builders/developers and businesses"...
so why did they get voted back into power then?? Its already been said many times on this forum , but you do get the government you deserve0 -
I never said I was "entitled" to a house in the area I'm from. But there is something wrong I think when I cannot by virtue of the fact that vested interests are being catered for, work hard and buy a house in the city that I am from. The market was distorted, people were allowed into the market to invest, on the same terms as people who were in the market to buy a house to live in. This never should have been allowed to happen. The outcome now as we all know has been far flung housing estates miles away from where the residents of those houses are working. Who benefits there??? Nobody except the people who built the houses and the government who made a tax windfall from it.
You can't determine properly who is an investor and who isn't. There are people who buy their first homes that are investors as they are planning to sell that home and move up the "property ladder".
People should be allowed invest in property, otherwise there wouldn't be a rental market.
The real problem in the country was extremely bad planning and corruption/lobbying played a large part of that.There is such a thing as a "win-win" solution, where the solution can suit citizens, government and businesses, but in all this crap that was going on, nobody was advocating on behalf of the people of this country, funny that, when you think why we elect a government, to represent people, but we have a government that has said to itself, "f*ck the people who vote, we represent big builders/developers and businesses"...
Yes its not such much funny as tragic IMO but that is why political donations should be stopped and make taking donations/bribes a crime and a politician should be fined heavily for committing the offense or in extreme cases prison sentences.0 -
Your not entitled to a house in the area you grew up. The prices were determined by the market, you can't complain about that. What did you want the government to do? Block the investor market entirely so you could afford a house?
They should have blocked it somewhat, a lot of economists and ordinary men on the street were shouting that years ago...we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now if they acted the way they should have.
Agree with most of the rest of your post tho.0 -
Advertisement
-
by far the most dangerous occupation in this country is working on a farm , most gardai never come close to being seriously hurt
actualy it is building sites, more people die on building sites than any other industry, maybe all the out of work construction people should get there rents and mortgages paid. closely followed by fisher men and farmers, gardai are nowhere on the list.0 -
Too true. Not only that, the Gardai are better paid by those very people you mention ( eg Construction workers, farmers, fishermen ) who pay the govt taxes to emply people like the Gardai, plus the Gardai have more secure employment, better sick day provisions, better pensions ( no small perk ), no downtime because of bad weather, no early retirement etc. As a policeman from abroad said, the Gardai pay needs to be cut 30% minimum.0
-
Ah now, no frontline PAYE earner should have their pay cut 30%. I think what is reasonably being aimed for is between 10-15% across the board for all.
The likes of the CS know they have done well through public partnership and benchmarking. They will take hits on a few fronts for some of their more outlandish practices and perks, but the pay will remain relatively intact.
What is likely to happen is a pay freeze, no CPI increases(or decreases!), and gradual changes to pension entitlements etc.
Their salaries will stagnate for a few years to bring them in line with others. I think this is what will happen. As opposed to what many think should happen.0 -
actualy it is building sites, more people die on building sites than any other industry, maybe all the out of work construction people should get there rents and mortgages paid. closely followed by fisher men and farmers, gardai are nowhere on the list.
im sorry but you are wrong on this one , farmers are a particulary complacent bunch when it comes to safety and thier is almost zero enforcement of safety regulations on farms compared to building sites , almost no such thing as a man with a file calling round to a farm to check what may be a hazzard0 -
Too true. Not only that, the Gardai are better paid by those very people you mention ( eg Construction workers, farmers, fishermen ) who pay the govt taxes to emply people like the Gardai, plus the Gardai have more secure employment, better sick day provisions, better pensions ( no small perk ), no downtime because of bad weather, no early retirement etc. As a policeman from abroad said, the Gardai pay needs to be cut 30% minimum.
30%? That's ridiculous. Certainly the amount of overtime needs to be looked at as it is costing an incredible amount, and maybe pay cuts do need to be investigated too, but 30%? That means that a new on the beat Garda would be on minimum wage at best. What kind of lunacy is that!?
A new Garda starts on approx €25k a year if memory serves. 70% of that is €17.5k, which as far as I know is actually below the minimum wage. Given the way things are going with the budgets and the pension levy that's a net income of less that €1,400 a month. How do you suppose a Garda in Dublin is going to live on that!? Have a think about the cost of rent, bills, food and transport and see what you think all that would come to in a month in Dublin. Then maybe you could see the madness in that 30%. And you say 30% minimum!
I'm not even going to address the "downtime because of bad weather" point, that's just laughable.0 -
Ah now, no frontline PAYE earner should have their pay cut 30%. I think what is reasonably being aimed for is between 10-15% across the board for all.
The likes of the CS know they have done well through public partnership and benchmarking. They will take hits on a few fronts for some of their more outlandish practices and perks, but the pay will remain relatively intact.
What is likely to happen is a pay freeze, no CPI increases(or decreases!), and gradual changes to pension entitlements etc.
Their salaries will stagnate for a few years to bring them in line with others. I think this is what will happen. As opposed to what many think should happen.
whooah , this is news to me that the CS know they have done well , from reading boards and other sites this past few months , all evidence suggests civil servants believe they were martyrs for the country while those in the private sector earned a mint0 -
Yes but they are the school leaver General Operatives and Personal Assistants who try to compare themselves to CEO's of multinational companies. They do it for less salary and glory out of goodwill towards the irish people.whooah , this is news to me that the CS know they have done well , from reading boards and other sites this past few months , all evidence suggests civil servants believe they were martyrs for the country while those in the private sector earned a mint
The unions and anyone within who looks out over the parapet would know how well they've done.
They will also recognise how strong their position is, especially given how weak this government is. They will fight to hold the important stuff(pay/leave/pensions etc.), and feign resistance to what they know they can give up.0 -
im sorry but you are wrong on this one , farmers are a particulary complacent bunch when it comes to safety and thier is almost zero enforcement of safety regulations on farms compared to building sites , almost no such thing as a man with a file calling round to a farm to check what may be a hazzard
it is you who is wrong, lok at the statistics, construction workers and fisher men have a higher level of fatalitys in the workplace than farmers ever did.0 -
whooah , this is news to me that the CS know they have done well , from reading boards and other sites this past few months , all evidence suggests civil servants believe they were martyrs for the country while those in the private sector earned a mint
the CS will always do well regardless of what happens, they have job security which is the most important thing a person can have.
as for the private sector making a mint that is just another one of thoise urban myths, the only people who done well out of the "celtic tiger" where the big business people the people who already had money, for the ordinary joe little changed and very few ever seen this mythical celtic tiger.0 -
This post has been deleted.0
-
Advertisement
-
as for the private sector making a mint that is just another one of thoise urban myths, the only people who done well out of the "celtic tiger" where the big business people the people who already had money, for the ordinary joe little changed and very few ever seen this mythical celtic tiger.
Hear hear. The going rate, for example, for someone I know with a third level qualification, working hard ( plenty of pressure ) in an American multinational I know of in Ireland is in the low 30's, and she has ten years experience there. She is one of the educated, lucky ones in the private sector. Its possible in a year or 2 the company may be gone. Incidentally her management / bosses from the States are always amazed at the high public service sector costs in this country, and how inefficient it is.0 -
as for the private sector making a mint that is just another one of thoise urban myths, the only people who done well out of the "celtic tiger" where the big business people the people who already had money, for the ordinary joe little changed and very few ever seen this mythical celtic tiger.
I'm sorry, but that is total nonesense. I personally did very well out of the celtic tiger and I never even made it to middle management nevermind the top. I spent the entire Celtic Tiger in the private sector and am now in a position where I own a house, with a games room with multiple guitars, games consoles, kick ass tv, surround sound, PC etc. This all funded by the money I earned in the private sector during the boom years. I've been on foreign holidays every year and have almost always had a number of weekends away in places like New York or Copenhagen or wherever. And I don't even have any real debt to speak of (aside from the mortgage).
Compare this to the 80's and then come back and tell me that the boom did nothing for the ordinary joe. I see flat-screen, wide-screen LCD HD TVs in more houses than not now. Games stores are earning huge money selling consoles and related products. I am not an isolated case. Trips to New York for Christmas shopping was widespread over the last number of years, in fact everytime I went there the one thing I noticed was the number of Irish people with loads of shopping bags hanging out of their arms.
People seem to take so many of these things for granted now, but the average guy on the street did very bloody well out of the Celtic Tiger, which is why few people were really complaining about the country over the last few years and why we kept voting in a Government that were running the country into the ground, because we were all so focused on trying to maintain our newfound "status" to even consider the consequences.Hear hear. The going rate, for example, for someone I know with a third level qualification, working hard ( plenty of pressure ) in an American multinational I know of in Ireland is in the low 30's, and she has ten years experience there. She is one of the educated, lucky ones in the private sector. Its possible in a year or 2 the company may be gone. Incidentally her management / bosses from the States are always amazed at the high public service sector costs in this country, and how inefficient it is.
I have 10 years experience in my field and am on a good deal more. In fact I am on at best the same, if not a little lower, now than I was in the private sector a year ago. I'm not sure what your point is as most qualified people with similar experience I know are doing fairly well for themselves at the moment (my OH has 12-13 years experience, no 3rd level education and is not in a "specialised" field and she is on the same money as me). I reached that level of pay with 5-6 years, and I wasn't even in a "specialised" field like IT at the time. So I'm not sure what your example proves.0 -
I see flat-screen, wide-screen LCD HD TVs in more houses than not now. Games stores are earning huge money selling consoles and related products. I am not an isolated case. Trips to New York for Christmas shopping was widespread over the last number of years
Are most of your friends public servants / govt employees of some description ? Possibly there are some sectors / parts of the country that did see the Celtic Tiger. I know maybe 500 to 1000 people and never heard of anyone of them going to New York for Christmas shopping.0 -
Ah now come on. I've been to New York a few times on holiday. Shopping there is FAR cheaper than here. It makes sense to go there on cheap tickets, and pay for a hotel approaching christmas. Its a really cheap holiday then.Are most of your friends public servants / govt employees of some description ? Possibly there are some sectors / parts of the country that did see the Celtic Tiger. I know maybe 500 to 1000 people and never heard of anyone of them going to New York for Christmas shopping.
You cant even aim that towards the PS/CS. You are just begrudging all who earn more than you, and assuming they are PS/CS.
Besides what this has to do with the GRA I dont know.0 -
I wouldn't class the Garda salary as good tbh; starts at €25k and takes 17 years to get to €47k. Not much better than entry-level CO in the civil service but with (I would have thought) less prospect for promotion.
A lot of Gardaí take the crappy salary because they love the job - I'd do the same tbh. Same goes for the army and a few other things like that.
That said, I wouldn't like to have to foot the bill if other PS workers didn't get a similar deal.
Absolute, complete nonsense. Yes, it starts in the mid 20k range but you can be on 50k within 5 years very easily.
I come from a family of Gardai and I know what I'm saying is correct.0 -
Are most of your friends public servants / govt employees of some description ? Possibly there are some sectors / parts of the country that did see the Celtic Tiger. I know maybe 500 to 1000 people and never heard of anyone of them going to New York for Christmas shopping.
You don't have a great memory do you!? If you did you would remember me saying previously that most people I know are private sector. You also didn't pay much attention to detail on my post, given that my point was that I did all that while I was working in the private sector.
Oh and it's been fairly common knowledge that lots of Irish people have been doing their Christmas shopping in New York, pay particular attention to the last link:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/christmas-shopping-in-new-york-you-monster-1231802.html
https://www.tribune.ie/article/2008/nov/09/we-philadelphia-and-boston-not-ny-for-shopping/
www.isme.ie/stg/public/download.php?site=site3008&file=08298foreignspend.doc
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2007/11/11/story28164.asp
If you know that many people and have never heard of any of them going to NY then either you know a very bizarre/limited cross-section of the population or they just went and never told you!!0 -
I only know a few people online that went to NY for shopping trips. They only went to buy electronics which are so much cheaper in the states it isn't even funny. They just covert the dollar prices into euro and add a bit for Ireland on electronics so it definitely paid off if you were buying an iPhone or a laptop. Just take it out of the box and carry it onto the plane like you left with it.0
-
You can't determine properly who is an investor and who isn't. There are people who buy their first homes that are investors as they are planning to sell that home and move up the "property ladder".
People should be allowed invest in property, otherwise there wouldn't be a rental market.
If I bought an apartment 5 years ago, and then got married and wanted to move up the property ladder, sell my 2 bed apartment and buy a 3 bed house with a garden because I wanted to start a family and wanted some more space, this isn't an investment decision as you suggest!!!
This is just me wanting to start a family and get on with my life! In doing so, I'm not distorting the property market or selfishly depriving another family of a house that they could buy. For every one of me in the past, there were many people running around in BMW's hoovering up property everywhere.
To suggest that the government cannot differentiate investors/speculators, from first time buyers or people selling one property to buy another larger one for family/personal reasons, is to fundamentally misunderstand the tax system. The government know exactly how many properties each person owns and whether they are a first time buyer or an investor. This is how they can give tax relief for owner occupiers. If we preserved the property market for people who wanted to buy houses to live in, while making it unattractive to selfishly hoover up houses left right and centre, we would simply not be in this mess.
This country is completely f*cked up when it comes to housing. If you are on social welfare, the government gives you a house or else gives you the money to rent a house, if you are wealthy, you could buy as many houses as you wanted, but if you were working and earning 40K a year, you had to borrow your boll*x to get a mortgage and put a roof over your head!!!0 -
If I bought an apartment 5 years ago, and then got married and wanted to move up the property ladder, sell my 2 bed apartment and buy a 3 bed house with a garden because I wanted to start a family and wanted some more space, this isn't an investment decision as you suggest!!!
This is just me wanting to start a family and get on with my life! In doing so, I'm not distorting the property market or selfishly depriving another family of a house that they could buy. For every one of me in the past, there were many people running around in BMW's hoovering up property everywhere.
To suggest that the government cannot differentiate investors/speculators, from first time buyers or people selling one property to buy another larger one for family/personal reasons, is to fundamentally misunderstand the tax system. The government know exactly how many properties each person owns and whether they are a first time buyer or an investor. This is how they can give tax relief for owner occupiers. If we preserved the property market for people who wanted to buy houses to live in, while making it unattractive to selfishly hoover up houses left right and centre, we would simply not be in this mess.
So kill the rental market so you can afford a house in your area. Guess what happens to renting prices when you do that?
There is nothing wrong with buying to rent and you don't have to live in the house in this case. You want to distort the market. Housing is a market, again you don't have to buy a house, your choosing to because you don't want to rent. There are plenty of people that are happy to rent and you want them to pay more rent so you can get a cheaper house as when you reduce the investor market, you drive down supply which increases demand (artificially) and drives up rent prices.0 -
Advertisement
-
An Garda are 'Special' or did nobody know that?
0
Advertisement