Brian Cowen and 'those pictures'

getcover

This is a non-story being elevated to ridiculous heights by a humourless, floundering man way out of his depth, whose past incompetencies have come back to haunt him.

If Cowen is as thin-skinned as this, its time for him to return to the backwaters of Offaly...

Darragh29

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Brian cowen has children ,I don't think it's fair on them that their dad is portrayed in this way.

As much as I hate fianna fail ,i feel sorry for their families with stuff like this.

Well, he knew what he was getting into when he got into politics, he's the big man who wanted the big job. As is often the case in this country, he gets the job and then realises he isn't able to do it properly. He should have thought this through before he decided he wanted to run the country. It is obvious he isn't capable, so the criticism is well deserved in my opinion. And as for the gardai being involved, it just shows what a backward petty kip this is.

oscarBravo

Threads merged, sorry about screwing things up in the process.

Covey

oscarBravo wrote: »

Threads merged, sorry about screwing things up in the process.

Thought for a minute there that FF had infiltrated Boards as well. Now that WOULD be serious. :pac:

Mr.Micro

The pictures are all over he net, the papers and RTE apologise for a newsworthy item in the public interest.Hmm. The State broadcaster has spoken, oh I mean buckled to the FF idiots. Cowen should have offered to buy them and then he would be seen to have a sense of humour any gain a few popularity points. Instead FF do the exact opposite,....... all too familiar FF, cannot even take a joke now, then again FF is the joke.

gandalf

TBH I think the young Cowans will be getting a lot more stick from classmates whose parents have lost their jobs on his watch than for a bad painting guerrilla hung in the National Gallery.

As someone already said if a big deal wasn't made of this then it would have died rapidally. I would consider it a waste of Gardai time to pursue this matter. As usual the spindoctors were frantically scrambling around in case our beloved leaders looked bad. Really a case of closing the gate after the horse has bolted, rang miles away to France been slaughtered and served up with a nice red wine sauce.

fricatus

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

For me, as a FF voter, this is the day that Cowen has lost it.

And for me, as a non-FF voter, likewise...

yoshytoshy

Darragh29 wrote: »

And as for the gardai being involved, it just shows what a backward petty kip this is.

That is ridiculous alright ,I'm sure briany cowen could call on the CIA while he's at it.
Maybe it was part of the axis of evil ,trying to gain foothold in our financial systems:eek:

De Hipster

yoshytoshy wrote: »

RTE didn't need to show the images though and still report on the story.

That's usually referred to as RADIO
:rolleyes:

ArmaniJeanss

oscarBravo wrote: »

So you reckon that any random has the right to wander into a gallery and hang whatever he wants on the wall?

Er no obviously not. But as I said in my opinion there is no way a criminal damage charge would stick in a court, or would be entertained by the DPP.
It be like students being done for dangerous driving for pushing a bed down the road during rag week.

oscarBravo wrote: »

...because, as we all know, the guards never investigate anything without direct orders from a government minister. :rolleyes:

Honestly, you are being naive if you think the gardai would throw resources at this (and there seems to be a lot of resources being throw at it) unless there was either a) outside pressure being put on them or b) possibly they are doing it to keep the story in the news and embarass the government further.
The fact that pressure has been put on RTE leads me to thinks its the former, not the latter.

oscarBravo

If this doesn't turn into a grown-up conversation pretty soon, it's getting closed again.

Mr.Micro

Cowen is a big boy now. he can take it, but by the FF reaction obviously he cannot. Tough, it comes with the job.

oscarBravo

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Er no obviously not. But as I said in my opinion there is no way a criminal damage charge would stick in a court, or would be entertained by the DPP.

Right, so you think randoms shouldn't be allowed to hang pictures in a gallery, but you don't think anything should be done about it?

Honestly, you are being naive if you think the gardai would throw resources at this (and there seems to be a lot of resources being throw at it) unless there was either a) outside pressure being put on them or b) possibly they are doing it to keep the story in the news and embarass the government further.
The fact that pressure has been put on RTE leads me to thinks its the former, not the latter.

Fine, you have a theory. Personally, I'll reserve judgement until someone comes up with some, y'know, facts about the story.

partyguinness

It was a cheap and cheery publicity stunt for the artist..fair play to him..thats all it was.

I did see the original news clip Monday night and i did think it was a bit ridic having it on the 9 a clock news. I am more concerned about RTE wasting our tax money covering what was basically a prank

Mr.Micro

partyguinness wrote: »

It was a cheap and cheery publicity stunt for the artist..fair play to him..thats all it was.

The artist will be famous (infamous at the minute) of that I am sure. I think FF should move on now and see it for what it was, an artist on the make at BC expense.

partyguinness

I was disappointed in RTE, it was a tabloidesque story better suited to TV3 or the Den or the Indo.

Sir Oxman

http://www.irishelection.com/03/the-powers-that-be-want-action-taken-on-brian-cowens-nude-pictures/

Our independent public defenders (aka gov- goons) spring into action within milliseconds to defend the honour of An Taoiseach...

Slideshowbob

partyguinness wrote: »

I was disappointed in RTE, it was a tabloidesque story better suited to TV3 or the Den or the Indo.

I disagree - I consider it newsworthy - sure look at the interest it's getting here

It may appear as breaking news later on tv3 though

oscarBravo

Whether or not RTE should have run the story is a discussion for News & Media. The discussion here is about RTE's decision to pull the story under political pressure, and the involvement of the Gardaí.

partyguinness

How can anyone consider it newsworthy?

The state of the national economy/sport/weather etc..thats newsworthy...not some prank by (prob) some unknown artist on a Monday morning...the fact tRTE went to so much trouble to conduct a vox pop in the street and then ask an expert to value it..was just plain retarded by RTE. It was cheap and gutter feature by an organisation that should know better..sure have it on the 11 pm news as a funny side story but as one of the main stories in these times...come on...:eek:

yoshytoshy

Rte is suppose to be state owned and they joined in on the mockery by showing the pictures.

If RTE wasn't biased ,it wouldn't have shown the pictures.

Mr.Micro

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Rte is suppose to be state owned and they joined in on the mockery by showing the pictures.

If RTE wasn't biased ,it wouldn't have shown the pictures.

If RTE was biased it would not have shown the pictures. It was a public interest story on a political figure who happens to be the Taoiseach. Public interest is the priority here and RTE were not biased IMO.

oscarBravo

partyguinness wrote: »

How can anyone consider it newsworthy?

yoshytoshy wrote: »

If RTE wasn't biased ,it wouldn't have shown the pictures.

Ahem.

Johnny Utah

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm not sure where the criticism of Fachtna Murphy is coming from. I'm not clear what the Garda were asked to investigate, but I'm assuming it's something to do with hanging unauthorised pictures in the galleries, which could be considered criminal damage.

If there's more to it than that, I'd be interested in hearing.

I think that the offence in this particular case would be more likely to come under section 7 of the Public Order Act.


http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0007.html#zza2y1994s7



EDIT: According to the latest reports, the man apparently glued or put a nail into the wall of the Gallery. This would amount to criminal damage.

De Hipster

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Rte is suppose to be state owned and they joined in on the mockery by showing the pictures.

RTÉ are indeed state-owned but not wholly government funded, last time I checked 'freedom of speech' was still respected (at some level) in this state.

Therefore my license fee also pays towards RTÉ & I personally think they were wrong to apologise under pressure for something which was a flippant but newsworthy item as featured at the end of the news.

They previous FF government put pressure on RTÉ to pull Bull Island & similar political satire from the broadcast schedule in the run up to elections, which RTÉ then bowed under...therefore FF obviously think (or realise) that Irish people do not have the capability of independent judgement or thought.


I am increasingly disenfranchised with the succession of FF crooks passing through the realms of power as Irish people sit back and moan in relation to the failing of the alternatives...how will we know until we try?!

yoshytoshy

De Hipster wrote: »

I am increasingly disenfranchised with the succession of FF crooks passing through the realms of power as Irish people sit back and moan in relation to the failing of the alternatives...how will we know until we try?!

I can't wait for a new government and hopefully we will have something good to talk about.

My only gripe with whats happened is purely on cowens family having to deal with it.

De Hipster

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I can't wait for a new government and hopefully we will have something good to talk about.

My only gripe with whats happened is purely on cowens family having to deal with it.

But that's one of the elements of this whole discussion that I just do not understand...

• I'm treated like an idiot (Irish citizen) who cannot make decisions, opinions nor interpretations for myself
• They TAKE percentages of my hard-earned salary to piddle away just like the fruits of the labour of a golden era gone
• They point blank refuse to explain their failings as a collective or as individuals
• They continue to protect their buddies, provide 'jobs for the boys' and generally convey an attitude of 'we're not corrupt, this is just doing the business, how dare you question...now go to jail for minute infringements like tv license evasion you heathen'
• Cowen gets slagged/satired by (personal opinion) works of art of relatively good likeness & comic portrayal of the emperor & his only remaining dignity & people object?!

We really have bigger fish to fry in relation to this government & the current economic failings.

yoshytoshy

De Hipster wrote: »

We really have bigger fish to fry in relation to this government & the current economic failings.

Until the global economy starts to show some improvement ,we have no hope of ejecting fianna fail.

No matter what we do at the moment ,no ones opinions are going to change anything. I can't see how something like this helps things at all ,politically or any other way.

Covey

yoshytoshy wrote: »

My only gripe with whats happened is purely on cowens family having to deal with it.

Must be used to it by now, what is after all a daily occurance ( except around Paddy's day, Ard Fheiseanna etc) at home.

WithCheesePlease

I assume ye're aware of this??? Gardai visiting Today FM looking for emails from the artist!!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0325/breaking38.htm

De Hipster

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Until the global economy starts to show some improvement ,we have no hope of ejecting fianna fail.

No matter what we do at the moment ,no ones opinions are going to change anything. I can't see how something like this helps things at all ,politically or any other way.

Perhaps FF may realise that the opinion of their employers (i.e. me & the rest of the Irish tax affiliated) is that they no longer deserve to be employed...

Boston

oscarBravo wrote: »

So you reckon that any random has the right to wander into a gallery and hang whatever he wants on the wall? ...because, as we all know, the guards never investigate anything without direct orders from a government minister. :rolleyes:

I don't think its right, but I also don't think it's criminal. The charges listed are incitement (to what exactly) indecency (Nude art in an art gallery) and criminal damage (a nail in a wall).

Sir Oxman

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gpslobEw7FykUeLS1au5kiLJyQjQ

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7964096.stm

Artist located, school-teacher, that's his job/career gone...

Slideshowbob

so google, Press Association and BBC are allowed report on this - but RTE can't

Why? political pressure?

I thought we lived in a democracy

Lumbarda

If the artist is being charged with criminal damage for banging a nail into a wall (GREAT use of Garda resources BTW :rolleyes:), can Cowen at least be as well for what he's done to the country?

ce

Barname wrote: »

a permit is not required, anyhow it is a public gallery that receives taxpayers funding, much like the education that the taxpayer paid for you and yet you cannot spell

hence NOT hense

The cost of a Garda investigation is not defendable for such a trivial matter.

Well done on correcting a spelling mistake. Unfortunately your great triumph was marred by bad grammar; "not defendable" you say?!

I believe the word you were looking for is, "indefensible".

GuanYin

OK.... I'll say this once... take the spelling nazi attitude elsewhere. For a first post, it isn't a good way to ensure you get a chance at a second.

On topic, adult conversation or we get a locked thread and some infractions.

dresden8

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Rte is suppose to be state owned and they joined in on the mockery by showing the pictures.

It is state owned. It is not owned by Fianna Fail. It is not owned by Brian Cowen.

It has a responsibility to report the news. It owes the person of Brian Cowen nothing. It owes it's viewers and licence payers a whole hell of a lot.

It was a public interest story. The Gardai are involved and a file has gone to the DPP.

We have a right to know what the hell is going on in the country.

Most people couldn't give a flying fnck if Cowen is "embarressed". He's a big boy in a tough world, he should grow a thicker skin. (Ironically)

Slideshowbob

as the RTE catchphrase goes - fuel your imagination

Sleepy

How is the showing of these pictures any more embarrassing to Brian Cowen or the office of the Taoiseach than the footage of him drunkenly singing rebel songs in his local which was broadcast shortly after he entered the office?

peasant

Slideshowbob wrote: »

so google, Press Association and BBC are allowed report on this - but RTE can't

Why? political pressure?

I thought we lived in a democracy

Reminds me of the German Democratic Republic.

There was an area around Dresden where due to the geography it was impossible to receive West German television.

They called this area "Das Tal der Ahnungslosen" or "the valley of the clueless"

:D:D

yoshytoshy

dresden8 wrote: »

It is state owned. It is not owned by Fianna Fail. It is not owned by Brian Cowen.

It has a responsibility to report the news. It owes the person of Brian Cowen nothing. It owes it's viewers and licence payers a whole hell of a lot.

It was a public interest story. The Gardai are involved and a file has gone to the DPP.

We have a right to know what the hell is going on in the country.

Most people couldn't give a flying fnck if Cowen is "embarressed". He's a big boy in a tough world, he should grow a thicker skin. (Ironically)

I've never said rte shouldn't have reported the story ,so don't reply making out that I did.

If people continue to huff and puff about fianna fail ,when the time comes to vote them out ,they'll be all huffed and puffed out.

dresden8

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I've never said rte shouldn't have reported the story ,so don't reply making out that I did.

If people continue to huff and puff about fianna fail ,when the time comes to vote them out ,they'll be all huffed and puffed out.

What were you saying so? Especially with your accusation of bias.

yoshytoshy

dresden8 wrote: »

What were you saying so? Especially with your accusation of bias.

The photos themselves is what I was referring to.

dresden8

How is showing the items in question that all the fuss is about, bias?

It's the freaking news.

These paintings moved the whole apparatus of the state against the national broadcaster and the urban terrorist who perpetrated this heinous crime against the state.

The whole thing is a joke.

yoshytoshy

I laughed at the pictures when I seen them on television ,but I also was suprised to see RTE showing them.

It was something I'd expect to see in a less reputable newspaper ,more because of how vulgar the pictures were and not because I didn't like them.

peasant

dresden8 wrote: »

The whole thing is a joke.

The really sad thing is that it isn't

dresden8

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I laughed at the pictures when I seen them on television ,but I also was suprised to see RTE showing them.

It was something I'd expect to see in a less reputable newspaper ,more because of how vulgar the pictures were and not because I didn't like them.

Every news company who reported the story thought it was appropriate to show the pictures.

I doubt FF demanded an apology off each of them. They'd be told to F the FF off.

FF still have the impression they own the country and we should, as Martin Mansergh has put it, "respect our betters"

Well excuse the fnck me, this is a republic and a democracy, I have no "betters"

Especially FF idiots.

Mr.Micro

dresden8 wrote: »

Every news company who reported the story thought it was appropriate to show the pictures.

I doubt FF demanded an apology off each of them. They'd be told to F the FF off.

FF still have the impression they own the country and we should, as Martin Mansergh has put it, "respect our betters"

Well excuse the fnck me, this is a republic and a democracy, I have no "betters"

Especially FF idiots.

FF should be sorting the economy instead of getting all hot and bothered over a few paintings of page 3 Biff.

dattley

BBC wrote:

Will Hanafin, the show's producer, said the detective told him the investigation was looking at three potential offences of indecency, incitement to hatred and criminal damage,..

Can even the die hard 'FF can do no wrong' people honestly think:

a) These pictures qualify as indecent?
b) These pictures incite hatred?
c) That a nail-hole in a wall should necessitate obtaining a search warrant to the offices of a licensed radio broadcaster, as well as the garda time and resources required to file the issue with the DPP with regard to further prosecutions?

Now i'm not saying it should be permissible to go around punching small holes in walls. But if these were pictures of, say, an oak tree, do you really believe there would've been any action taken other than the removal of the pictures? If so, I think you might want to question wether your support of FF is on merit, or blind fanaticism?