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Brian Cowen and 'those pictures'

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    #62
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    If this doesn't turn into a grown-up conversation pretty soon, it's getting closed again.


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    #63
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Cowen is a big boy now. he can take it, but by the FF reaction obviously he cannot. Tough, it comes with the job.


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    #64
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Er no obviously not. But as I said in my opinion there is no way a criminal damage charge would stick in a court, or would be entertained by the DPP.
    Right, so you think randoms shouldn't be allowed to hang pictures in a gallery, but you don't think anything should be done about it?
    Honestly, you are being naive if you think the gardai would throw resources at this (and there seems to be a lot of resources being throw at it) unless there was either a) outside pressure being put on them or b) possibly they are doing it to keep the story in the news and embarass the government further.
    The fact that pressure has been put on RTE leads me to thinks its the former, not the latter.
    Fine, you have a theory. Personally, I'll reserve judgement until someone comes up with some, y'know, facts about the story.


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    #65
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    It was a cheap and cheery publicity stunt for the artist..fair play to him..thats all it was.

    I did see the original news clip Monday night and i did think it was a bit ridic having it on the 9 a clock news. I am more concerned about RTE wasting our tax money covering what was basically a prank


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    #66
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    partyguinness wrote: »
    It was a cheap and cheery publicity stunt for the artist..fair play to him..thats all it was.

    The artist will be famous (infamous at the minute) of that I am sure. I think FF should move on now and see it for what it was, an artist on the make at BC expense.


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    #67
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    I was disappointed in RTE, it was a tabloidesque story better suited to TV3 or the Den or the Indo.


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    #68
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    http://www.irishelection.com/03/the-powers-that-be-want-action-taken-on-brian-cowens-nude-pictures/

    Our independent public defenders (aka gov- goons) spring into action within milliseconds to defend the honour of An Taoiseach...


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    #69
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    partyguinness wrote: »
    I was disappointed in RTE, it was a tabloidesque story better suited to TV3 or the Den or the Indo.


    I disagree - I consider it newsworthy - sure look at the interest it's getting here

    It may appear as breaking news later on tv3 though


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    #70
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Whether or not RTE should have run the story is a discussion for News & Media. The discussion here is about RTE's decision to pull the story under political pressure, and the involvement of the Gardaí.


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    #71
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    How can anyone consider it newsworthy?

    The state of the national economy/sport/weather etc..thats newsworthy...not some prank by (prob) some unknown artist on a Monday morning...the fact tRTE went to so much trouble to conduct a vox pop in the street and then ask an expert to value it..was just plain retarded by RTE. It was cheap and gutter feature by an organisation that should know better..sure have it on the 11 pm news as a funny side story but as one of the main stories in these times...come on...:eek:


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    #72
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    Rte is suppose to be state owned and they joined in on the mockery by showing the pictures.

    If RTE wasn't biased ,it wouldn't have shown the pictures.


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    #73
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    Rte is suppose to be state owned and they joined in on the mockery by showing the pictures.

    If RTE wasn't biased ,it wouldn't have shown the pictures.

    If RTE was biased it would not have shown the pictures. It was a public interest story on a political figure who happens to be the Taoiseach. Public interest is the priority here and RTE were not biased IMO.


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    #74
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    partyguinness wrote: »
    How can anyone consider it newsworthy?
    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    If RTE wasn't biased ,it wouldn't have shown the pictures.
    Ahem.


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    #75
    Johnny Utah
    Registered Users Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭Johnny Utah


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I'm not sure where the criticism of Fachtna Murphy is coming from. I'm not clear what the Garda were asked to investigate, but I'm assuming it's something to do with hanging unauthorised pictures in the galleries, which could be considered criminal damage.

    If there's more to it than that, I'd be interested in hearing.

    I think that the offence in this particular case would be more likely to come under section 7 of the Public Order Act.


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0007.html#zza2y1994s7



    EDIT: According to the latest reports, the man apparently glued or put a nail into the wall of the Gallery. This would amount to criminal damage.


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    #76
    De Hipster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭De Hipster


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    Rte is suppose to be state owned and they joined in on the mockery by showing the pictures.

    RTÉ are indeed state-owned but not wholly government funded, last time I checked 'freedom of speech' was still respected (at some level) in this state.

    Therefore my license fee also pays towards RTÉ & I personally think they were wrong to apologise under pressure for something which was a flippant but newsworthy item as featured at the end of the news.

    They previous FF government put pressure on RTÉ to pull Bull Island & similar political satire from the broadcast schedule in the run up to elections, which RTÉ then bowed under...therefore FF obviously think (or realise) that Irish people do not have the capability of independent judgement or thought.


    I am increasingly disenfranchised with the succession of FF crooks passing through the realms of power as Irish people sit back and moan in relation to the failing of the alternatives...how will we know until we try?!


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    #77
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    De Hipster wrote: »
    I am increasingly disenfranchised with the succession of FF crooks passing through the realms of power as Irish people sit back and moan in relation to the failing of the alternatives...how will we know until we try?!

    I can't wait for a new government and hopefully we will have something good to talk about.

    My only gripe with whats happened is purely on cowens family having to deal with it.


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    #78
    De Hipster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭De Hipster


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    I can't wait for a new government and hopefully we will have something good to talk about.

    My only gripe with whats happened is purely on cowens family having to deal with it.

    But that's one of the elements of this whole discussion that I just do not understand...
    • I'm treated like an idiot (Irish citizen) who cannot make decisions, opinions nor interpretations for myself
    • They TAKE percentages of my hard-earned salary to piddle away just like the fruits of the labour of a golden era gone
    • They point blank refuse to explain their failings as a collective or as individuals
    • They continue to protect their buddies, provide 'jobs for the boys' and generally convey an attitude of 'we're not corrupt, this is just doing the business, how dare you question...now go to jail for minute infringements like tv license evasion you heathen'
    • Cowen gets slagged/satired by (personal opinion) works of art of relatively good likeness & comic portrayal of the emperor & his only remaining dignity & people object?!


    We really have bigger fish to fry in relation to this government & the current economic failings.


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    #79
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    De Hipster wrote: »
    We really have bigger fish to fry in relation to this government & the current economic failings.

    Until the global economy starts to show some improvement ,we have no hope of ejecting fianna fail.

    No matter what we do at the moment ,no ones opinions are going to change anything. I can't see how something like this helps things at all ,politically or any other way.


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    #80
    Covey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭Covey


    yoshytoshy wrote: »

    My only gripe with whats happened is purely on cowens family having to deal with it.

    Must be used to it by now, what is after all a daily occurance ( except around Paddy's day, Ard Fheiseanna etc) at home. :D


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    #81
    WithCheesePlease
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭WithCheesePlease


    I assume ye're aware of this??? Gardai visiting Today FM looking for emails from the artist!!

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0325/breaking38.htm


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    #82
    De Hipster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭De Hipster


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    Until the global economy starts to show some improvement ,we have no hope of ejecting fianna fail.

    No matter what we do at the moment ,no ones opinions are going to change anything. I can't see how something like this helps things at all ,politically or any other way.


    Perhaps FF may realise that the opinion of their employers (i.e. me & the rest of the Irish tax affiliated) is that they no longer deserve to be employed...


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    #83
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    So you reckon that any random has the right to wander into a gallery and hang whatever he wants on the wall? ...because, as we all know, the guards never investigate anything without direct orders from a government minister. :rolleyes:

    I don't think its right, but I also don't think it's criminal. The charges listed are incitement (to what exactly) indecency (Nude art in an art gallery) and criminal damage (a nail in a wall).


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    #84
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gpslobEw7FykUeLS1au5kiLJyQjQ

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7964096.stm

    Artist located, school-teacher, that's his job/career gone...


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    #85
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    so google, Press Association and BBC are allowed report on this - but RTE can't

    Why? political pressure?

    I thought we lived in a democracy


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    #86
    Lumbarda
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭Lumbarda


    If the artist is being charged with criminal damage for banging a nail into a wall (GREAT use of Garda resources BTW :rolleyes:), can Cowen at least be as well for what he's done to the country? :D


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    #87
    ce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭ce


    Barname wrote: »
    a permit is not required, anyhow it is a public gallery that receives taxpayers funding, much like the education that the taxpayer paid for you and yet you cannot spell

    hence NOT hense

    The cost of a Garda investigation is not defendable for such a trivial matter.

    Well done on correcting a spelling mistake. Unfortunately your great triumph was marred by bad grammar; "not defendable" you say?!

    I believe the word you were looking for is, "indefensible".


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    #88
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    OK.... I'll say this once... take the spelling nazi attitude elsewhere. For a first post, it isn't a good way to ensure you get a chance at a second.

    On topic, adult conversation or we get a locked thread and some infractions.


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    #89
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    Rte is suppose to be state owned and they joined in on the mockery by showing the pictures.


    It is state owned. It is not owned by Fianna Fail. It is not owned by Brian Cowen.

    It has a responsibility to report the news. It owes the person of Brian Cowen nothing. It owes it's viewers and licence payers a whole hell of a lot.

    It was a public interest story. The Gardai are involved and a file has gone to the DPP.

    We have a right to know what the hell is going on in the country.

    Most people couldn't give a flying fnck if Cowen is "embarressed". He's a big boy in a tough world, he should grow a thicker skin. (Ironically)


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    #90
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    as the RTE catchphrase goes - fuel your imagination


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    #91
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,249 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    How is the showing of these pictures any more embarrassing to Brian Cowen or the office of the Taoiseach than the footage of him drunkenly singing rebel songs in his local which was broadcast shortly after he entered the office?


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