Brian Cowen and 'those pictures'

TomRooney

The Raven. wrote: »

John Waters has written a very articulate piece in the Irish Times today. I was going to write something of similar opinion, but he has expressed it extremely well.



This so-called ‘artist’ is nothing more than a cheap hustler, imposing his vulgar fixations on the public, at the expense of another human being and his family. No self-respecting artist would sink to this level. This pathetic attempt to gain attention for his trashy, amateur paintings should have been treated with the contempt it deserved. The galleries should have just thrown them in the bin where they belong. No points for guessing who would have contacted RTE, and of course they fell for it hook line and sinker.

J waters is just another government lackey who knows where his bread is buttered, no more credible than senator harris.

thebaldsoprano

The Raven. wrote: »

This so-called ‘artist’ is nothing more than a cheap hustler

I don't buy this 'high' and 'low/toilet/whatever' art divide at all, IMO it's a crude form of censorship that should be thrown back to the dark ages where it belongs. I don't like this guy CONOR CASBY or his ehm, work, at all but it obviously has an audience, which is every bit as valid as a 'high' art audience.

RedPlanet

The Raven. wrote: »

This so-called ‘artist’ is nothing more than a cheap hustler, imposing his vulgar fixations on the public, at the expense of another human being and his family. No self-respecting artist would sink to this level. This pathetic attempt to gain attention for his trashy, amateur paintings should have been treated with the contempt it deserved. The galleries should have just thrown them in the bin where they belong. No points for guessing who would have contacted RTE, and of course they fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.

The controversial nude paintings of Taoiseach Brian Cowen could fetch €5,000 each at auction.

Dublin art dealer Ian Whyte of Whyte's Art Auction House has revealed that any future paintings by the artist Conor Casby (34) are likely to go for between €500 and €1,500.

"Originally when I saw the pieces in the papers, I thought they had been placed in the galleries as a stunt by a professional artist," he said.
http://www.herald.ie/entertainment/around-town/art-dealer-values-nude-cowen-pictures-at-euro5000-1688936.html

Barname

TomRooney wrote: »

J waters is just another government lackey who knows where his bread is buttered, no more credible than senator harris.

yes Tom. You are correct.

Johns 'boat was well floated' over the last 12 years.

he has uncloaked himself on this matter for sure.

deadhead13

The Raven. wrote: »

This so-called ‘artist’ is nothing more than a cheap hustler, imposing his vulgar fixations on the public, at the expense of another human being and his family. No self-respecting artist would sink to this level. This pathetic attempt to gain attention for his trashy, amateur paintings should have been treated with the contempt it deserved. The galleries should have just thrown them in the bin where they belong. No points for guessing who would have contacted RTE, and of course they fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.

The artist or the painting is irrelavent at this stage. FFs reaction to it is the real story.

Diogenes

deadhead13 wrote: »

The artist or the painting is irrelavent at this stage. FFs reaction to it is the real story.

Agreed. Banksy' work (I will confess to buying a print about 6 years ago) was incredibly hip, well executed, but ultimately quiet empty and shallow, and lacking any greater meaning.

The artist in question in this instance has gone one better and with an incredibly crude and infantile eye, made a bland statement which says nothing. Cowen is fat and ugly? Hur hur hur.

It's not saying anything.

The story now is Cowen's reaction, the police heavy handed response, and the idiocy of the outrage at "the offensive to the taoiseach".

The man is lampooned near daily by Martyn Turner in the times, and Cowen chooses this moment to develop a thin skin and send in the gardai?

thebaldsoprano

RedPlanet wrote: »

Dublin art dealer Ian Whyte of Whyte's Art Auction House has revealed that any future paintings by the artist Conor Casby (34) are likely to go for between €500 and €1,500.

IMO price isn't a good way to value an art work - it discourages having to think and in this case there isn't a lot to think about.

thebaldsoprano

Diogenes wrote: »

Agreed. Banksy' work (I will confess to buying a print about 6 years ago) was incredibly hip, well executed, but ultimately quiet empty and shallow, and lacking any greater meaning.

Aw, I like Banksy . He did a good job of attacking the gallery system, doing so in a very accessible manner and also encouraged people to look differently at street art.

Agreed about Casby's work having nothing to say apart from a crude joke though, it's a shame FF didn't treat it as such.

Barname

I think alot of people are underestimating the 'Casby Effect'

- The effort to supress has backfired on a clearly insecure and internet media naive Taoiseach.

- Perhaps Casby was sending a message to An Taoiseach in reference to his paralysis in dealing with the domestic fiscal and economic problems, that is.... 'to siht or get off the pot' .... link explaining below....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****_or_get_off_the_pot

so Mr Cowen, Siht or Get off the Pot, dont just stand there! do something! Ireland Inc is ruderless, bobbing adrift at sea.

ok so if you need the link to work you must put the letters S H I T in lieu of the **** in the URL if its ok for wiki why did boards.ie change the link on me?????

It is also used to urge someone to complete a task with a greater degree of efficiency or timeliness than is observed at the time the expression is used.

Derivation

It may derive from the time before indoor plumbing when a chamber pot was used for defecation. The expression, in this way, is essentially instruction for someone to stop being indecisive or procrastinating, and act.

Mr.Micro

Originally Posted by TomRooney
J waters is just another government lackey who knows where his bread is buttered, no more credible than senator harris.

Waters is now Mr.Safe. His opinion is regularly called for on the condescending shows like the Late late, and the Seioge's. So he will row now with his new safe celebrity status. So his opinion is safe.

The absolute outrage of the FF press office that strongarmed pathetic RTE into issuing an apology is what's really trashy here. We have discovered 3 things 1) RTE is not an independent broadcaster and 2) FF does not have a thick skin or a sense of humour and 3) FF incompetence at the handling of the situation. What's new?

Johnboy Mac

oscarBravo wrote: »

Last time I checked, the charter was written in plain English.

The next person to gripe about moderation on this thread is getting a six month ban.

OB, what's with you? Are you just being a 'jobsworth' or has the power gone to head? Control issues or just nothing else to do?

Diogenes

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

Aw, I like Banksy . He did a good job of attacking the gallery system, doing so in a very accessible manner and also encouraged people to look differently at street art.

Meh. I think his real talent lies in shameless self promotion. But he's come up with some clever idea.

Agreed about Casby's work having nothing to say apart from a crude joke though, it's a shame FF didn't treat it as such.

Actually in truth I'm delighted they didn't. The political outrage, police attention, on this childish and well executed practical joke, is nothing less than a profoundly damning statement about the priorities of this government, and makes a equally disappointing statement about the independence of our state broadcaster.

No one has come out of this smelling of roses, in fact neither RTE, the Gardai, the office of the Taoiseach, or anyone who defended the Taoiseach's reaction should be looking in the mirror today.

yoshytoshy

Johnboy Mac wrote: »

OB, what's with you? Are you just being a 'jobsworth' or has the power gone to head? Control issues or just nothing else to do?

This thread is getting constipated:rolleyes:

The Raven.

Here is a quote from the Irish Times, which provides a bit more clarity on the situation.

GOVERNMENT PRESS secretary Eoghan Ó Neachtain has said he did not consult the Taoiseach or anyone else before making a complaint to RTÉ about a news item relating to the hoax nude portraits.

Mr Ó Neachtain objected to the broadcasting of the news report of the paintings on the Nine O’Clock News on Monday night. He described the report as “over sensationalised”. He explained he was not objecting to a news item that the nude portraits were hung without permission in the National Gallery or the Royal Hibernian Academy, but the manner in which it was presented.

He particularly objected to an art expert being asked for an opinion on what was clearly a hoax painting and to the introduction to the news report which stated that Brian Cowen was “not thought to have posed for the anonymous artist”.

Mr Cowen himself has not said anything about the report or the RTÉ apology. An RTÉ spokeswoman confirmed the decision to offer an apology was taken before they received the complaint from Mr Ó Neachtain.

“It was decided by senior management immediately after it was shown on the Nine O’Clock News that it was inappropriate and in bad taste. After that we got several calls of complaint about it, one of which was from Eoghan Ó Neachtain, who was not acting on the instruction of the Taoiseach or any other Minister,” she said.

“We were already able to tell him that we had made the decision, that we were wrong and we should issue an apology. We informed him of that. That was the only communication we had with him. He did not ask for an apology.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0326/1224243451815.html

I cannot comment on who actually involved the gardai. At present it appears to be vague hearsay.

There is nothing new about illegitimately forcing ‘artwork’ into a major public gallery. It has all been done before, Banksy included. I have nothing against caricature, political or otherwise. I too have been caricatured in the past, and I found it amusing.

Martyn Turner is a sophisticated political satirist. There is no way that Casby’s crass efforts can be compared to an artist of his calibre.

Caricature is fine, provided it doesn’t cross the boundaries of indecency with offensive images of others, such as the case in question. I think standards have sunk to an all-time low when a person is prevented from defending their personal dignity from depraved violation, for fear of public ridicule. This is a sinister form of bullying. Of course the freedom of the press must be protected, but so also must the freedom of the individual to protect themselves from exploitation by sleazy opportunists.

peasant

The Raven. wrote: »

Caricature is fine, provided it doesn’t cross the boundaries of indecency with offensive images of others, such as the case in question. I think standards have sunk to an all-time low when a person is prevented from defending their personal dignity from depraved violation, for fear of public ridicule. This is a sinister form of bullying. Of course the freedom of the press must be protected, but so also must the freedom of the individual to protect themselves from exploitation by sleazy opportunists.

Check the corners of your mouth ...I think you may be frothing a bit there

Indecent, offensive, depraved, violating, sinister ?

Pfff....

Mildly amusing maybe.

yoshytoshy

It's gaining the attention of non political people though ,which doesn't contribute to our current situation.

Regardless of cowens appearance ,our future shouldn't amount to a pile of flesh

peasant

yoshytoshy wrote: »

It's gaining the attention of non political people though ,which doesn't contribute to our current situation.

Regadless of cowens appearance ,our future should amount to more than a pile of flesh

Is this a "leave the poor man alone, he's doing the best he can" kind of post?

Seriously?

yoshytoshy

peasant wrote: »

Is this a "leave the poor man alone, he's doing the best he can" kind of post?

Seriously?

No it's not ,not at all ,seriously.

It's a lets not get ourselves into a beauty contest about the election.
I looked at a lot of labours speeches today and although they were not the most visibly appealing of people in the electorate ,they were most certainly the most genuine.

I am aiming for a FG/Labour vote when it comes ,this scenario has thought me to vote with my head.


I related mostly to Labour ,even though they had the benefit of the previous parties behind them ,they come across as hard working people.

Barname

The Raven. wrote: »

I think standards have sunk to an all-time low

really? I think standards hit an all time low when Bertie told us he won inexplicable cash on the horses and other amounts were garnished from a digout organised in a foreign country.

I think standards hit an all time low when Mr Cowen pressured the then Aer Rianta to sell Airport land so as a private developer could 'connect and increase the value' of their holdings.

shall I continue? dont feign concern about standards and morals while you support those that clearly lack them.

sue me.

Diogenes

The Raven. wrote: »

Here is a quote from the Irish Times, which provides a bit more clarity on the situation.


I cannot comment on who actually involved the gardai. At present it appears to be vague hearsay.

I can, while it's possible that RTE caved to a single press secretary demand. But the Garda appearance at the Ray Darcy show?

The overwhelming heavy handed response cannot in any way be blamed on one man, unless that man has superhuman powers of press authority.

.

Caricature is fine, provided it doesn’t cross the boundaries of indecency with offensive images of others, such as the case in question. I think standards have sunk to an all-time low when a person is prevented from defending their personal dignity from depraved violation, for fear of public ridicule. This is a sinister form of bullying. Of course the freedom of the press must be protected, but so also must the freedom of the individual to protect themselves from exploitation by sleazy opportunists.

Uh, and Huh. We're reaching the levels of unemployment unrivalled in decades, housing stock lying idle, potential IMF intervention, and a government dithering and fighting over the right way to handle this crisis, and yet, when a crude practical joke is played, everyone from government press secretaries, to police, leap to a level action that suggests they are riding on greased cheetahs.

Cowen's offended? Well feck off. I was back home in the past week, and spoke to friends and family and the number of people who had lost or were in fear of losing their jobs was massive. The man orchestrated the greatest squandering of economic opportunity in the history of this state. He deserves to be lampooned and ridiculed. He's the most senior member of government, he's sought public office, he should be thick skinned.

What annoys me is this. I want to see swift and decisive decision from my government. But in the last 6 months the only time I've seen swift and decisive action from this government is in the aftermath of this nonsense. The only way we're getting out of this mess is with bold strong decisions, and the this is the only time we see the government acting swiftly and sharply, is when Cowen's feeling get hurt.

Thats bollocks. Watching the levers of state, leap into action so swiftly, thats annoying. Furthermore the craven apology from RTE makes me wonder about the level of impartiality and how easy it is for the government to affect the news agenda of our state broadcaster. What we say that day was a sledgehammer cracking a walnut, but it begs belief, and asking the question, if RTE caved so easily perhaps the government has more subtle and frequently used methods of controlling our state challenges media agenda.

Theres now a crisis in confidence in RTEs impartiality. That is the story.

Diogenes

Barname wrote: »

really? I think standards hit an all time low when Bertie told us he won inexplicable cash on the horses and other amounts were garnished from a digout organised in a foreign country.

I think standards hit an all time low when Mr Cowen pressured the then Aer Rianta to sell Airport land so as a private developer could 'connect and increase the value' of their holdings.

shall I continue? dont feign concern about standards and morals while you support those that clearly lack them.

sue me.

Or Ahern's claim that it was perfectly innocent for a man to not have a bank account, and cash his cheque at the bar of his local was normal behaviour, even if that man was the countries' minister for finance.

I think we are stretching credubility when we are concerned with the personal privacy and dignity of men who have governed over the strip mining of Ireland.

me_right_one

Diogenes wrote: »

Or Ahern's claim that it was perfectly innocent for a man to not have a bank account, and cash his cheque at the bar of his local was normal behaviour, even if that man was the countries' minister for finance.

I think we are stretching credubility when we are concerned with the personal privacy and dignity of men who have governed over the strip mining of Ireland.

+1. Strip mining, the best way I've heard it put yet

The Raven.

Barname wrote: »

really? I think standards hit an all time low when Bertie told us he won inexplicable cash on the horses and other amounts were garnished from a digout organised in a foreign country.

I think standards hit an all time low when Mr Cowen pressured the then Aer Rianta to sell Airport land so as a private developer could 'connect and increase the value' of their holdings.

shall I continue? dont feign concern about standards and morals while you support those that clearly lack them.

Firstly, I don’t support Brian Cowen or Fianna Fail. I never have and it is unlikely that I ever will. I agree with everything else you have said, and there is no need to continue, as I am fully aware of what they have done.

However, the standards I was referring to were in relation to the degrading paintings, which were vulgar and offensive on a personal level. I don’t believe that anyone should be subjected to that, no matter who they are.

sue me.

For what ??

Diogenes

The Raven. wrote: »

However, the standards I was referring to were in relation to the degrading paintings, which were vulgar and offensive on a personal level. I don’t believe that anyone should be subjected to that, no matter who they are.

Well thats true, however what has become the story is not the offence, or perceived offence Cowen feels he has endured, but the heavy handed reaction, and the craven way RTE caved to this reaction.

This story ceased to be about the paintings days ago, it became about the Taoiseaches reaction, RTE's behaviour, and the obvious questions this raises about priorities and independence in our state's broadcaster, and finally the government wasting police time.

In the midst of an economic crisis, in the middle of negotiations trying to prevent massive strikes, as well as the planning of a emergency government, the fact that the government not just saw fit to comment on this juvenile prank, but set the Garda out to catch the idiot, is, once again, a testimony to to the skewed priorities of this shower of ****ing eejits.

The Raven.

Diogenes wrote: »

I can, while it's possible that RTE caved to a single press secretary demand. But the Garda appearance at the Ray Darcy show?

The overwhelming heavy handed response cannot in any way be blamed on one man, unless that man has superhuman powers of press authority.

As I pointed out already, RTE have stated that they got ‘several calls of complaint about it’, and that ‘the decision to offer an apology was taken before they received the complaint from Mr Ó Neachtain.’

How do we know who sent the gardai to Ray Darcy’s office? Do you have a link to that information? It could just as easily have been one of the galleries, especially the National Gallery, which houses a priceless collection of paintings.

We're reaching the levels of unemployment unrivalled in decades, housing stock lying idle, potential IMF intervention, and a government dithering and fighting over the right way to handle this crisis, and yet, when a crude practical joke is played, everyone from government press secretaries, to police, leap to a level action that suggests they are riding on greased cheetahs.

Well said, and I agree with all of this, except that I don’t see it as a ‘practical joke’. I see it as a cruel, selfish means of gaining fame and fortune by a hitherto unknown amateur ‘artist’. RTE foolishly pandered to his whims and he succeeded.

Cowen's offended? Well feck off. I was back home in the past week, and spoke to friends and family and the number of people who had lost or were in fear of losing their jobs was massive. The man orchestrated the greatest squandering of economic opportunity in the history of this state. He deserves to be lampooned and ridiculed. He's the most senior member of government, he's sought public office, he should be thick skinned.

Yes indeed ‘he deserves to be lampooned and ridiculed’ for what he and his government have done, but not in this repulsive and vulgar manner.

What annoys me is this. I want to see swift and decisive decision from my government. But in the last 6 months the only time I've seen swift and decisive action from this government is in the aftermath of this nonsense. The only way we're getting out of this mess is with bold strong decisions, and the this is the only time we see the government acting swiftly and sharply, is when Cowen's feeling get hurt.

So do I, but how is this going to help? It serves no purpose other than to distract from the serious problems facing this country. Cowen hasn’t made any comment on the matter. Ironically, according to today’s poll, Fianna Fail have gained 5 points, which is regrettable.

Watching the levers of state, leap into action so swiftly, thats annoying. Furthermore the craven apology from RTE makes me wonder about the level of impartiality and how easy it is for the government to affect the news agenda of our state broadcaster. What we say that day was a sledgehammer cracking a walnut, but it begs belief, and asking the question, if RTE caved so easily perhaps the government has more subtle and frequently used methods of controlling our state challenges media agenda.

I sincerely hope not.

Theres now a crisis in confidence in RTEs impartiality. That is the story.

I don’t know about that. Pat Kenny, the golden boy of RTE, continues to wallow obsessively in favour of the ‘artist’ in question, both on television and on radio. Whatever apology was made is now virtually negated by his tedious ramblings.

I still don’t condone vulgar and abusive personal depictions of people. Unless it is kept in check, this type of thing sets a precedent and gets seen as an acceptable way to treat anyone. Already it has gotten out of hand. In a democratic, civilized country, this is totally inappropriate.

Propocus

Barname wrote: »

a permit is not required, anyhow it is a public gallery that receives taxpayers funding, much like the education that the taxpayer paid for you and yet you cannot spell

hence NOT hense

The cost of a Garda investigation is not defendable for such a trivial matter.

Can u lrn me spelin mis?

Short answer - tis a bit of a laugh no?

The Raven.

You beat me to it. I had already written my other reply so I decided to post it first.

Diogenes wrote: »

Well thats true, however what has become the story is not the offence, or perceived offence Cowen feels he has endured, but the heavy handed reaction, and the craven way RTE caved to this reaction.

This story ceased to be about the paintings days ago, it became about the Taoiseaches reaction, RTE's behaviour, and the obvious questions this raises about priorities and independence in our state's broadcaster, and finally the government wasting police time.

In the midst of an economic crisis, in the middle of negotiations trying to prevent massive strikes, as well as the planning of a emergency government, the fact that the government not just saw fit to comment on this juvenile prank, but set the Garda out to catch the idiot, is, once again, a testimony to to the skewed priorities of this shower of ****ing eejits.

At least we agree on somethings. What really bothers me is the very fact that the perceived reaction of RTE took precedence over the 'offence', which got buried as a result. I don't feel that the 'idiot' should get away with it.

lostexpectation

The Raven. wrote: »

Caricature is fine, provided it doesn’t cross the boundaries of indecency with offensive images of others, such as the case in question. I think standards have sunk to an all-time low when a person is prevented from defending their personal dignity from depraved violation, for fear of public ridicule. This is a sinister form of bullying. Of course the freedom of the press must be protected, but so also must the freedom of the individual to protect themselves from exploitation by sleazy opportunists.

indecency, its strange how ronan mullin and co are imagining that the tasoieach is depicted naked in these pictures where it isn't the case, what are they projecting, they guy in those pictures wouldn't get done for indecency

thebaldsoprano

The Raven. wrote: »

I don't feel that the 'idiot' should get away with it.

Highly regarded artists have made far, far worse images that'd make this, 'those photoshop images' and the Danish cartoons look mild. Yet their work, while controversial, is taken seriously. There's one artist in particular I feel would well illustrate this and add to the debate but this forum appears to be a little too sensitive for such things which is unfortunate.

The only real difference between such artists and Casby is that they have something interesting to say and put a lot of work into saying it articulately. I wouldn't see the difference in work and ability as reason enough to punish Casby though.

Barname