New CCTV around city?

Scotchie

Anyone know what's the story with all these new poles (with what seem to be wireless cameras) going up all over the city. I've seen them on the roundabout on the cork rd, o'connell street, upper yellow rd. and others. Is this the cops surveying the general public? Is that even legal , against civic-rights or whatever?

trishw78

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055356877&highlight=cctv+cameras

There's 2 other threads on this

Scotchie

ah rite, thanks for that, didn't realise they were there for so long (posts from last Aug!!)

Cabaal

Their up since Mid summer 2008 with planning up since about April 2008, they are within the law and from what I understand are there to watch traffic and anything that may be considered a public order offense...thats why there are two around Rubys

magick

I dont want ireland to go the way of Stasi London, but having said that, reading/hearing the reports of all the assults happening, it would be a welcome thing to have.

ziedth

No harm IMO,

Enough scumbags floating around the place to warrant it I think.

Sully

I believe they are not active cameras, as in lively watched. They are recording and can be used as evidence for a crime. So I was told anyway

merlante

I think as soon as cameras are put out there, we can assume that they are on recording all the time, and that the footage will eventually end up in the hands of the Americans and the next Saddam. I have no faith in authorities to manage surveillance and data collection responsibly. In the UK, there's a scandal every second week about it.

Having said that, as long as it stays in busy city centres, it might be justified if it cuts down on crime. Maybe. I heard somewhere that only a small percentage of crimes caught on camera are actually used as evidence because of the quality of the footage or some such.

longshanks

whats the next saddam going to do with videos of drunk people eating kebabs and getting sick outside rubys?

honeybadger

longshanks wrote: »

whats the next saddam going to do with videos
of drunk people eating kebabs and getting sick outside rubys?[/quote

open a kebab shop and a late nighter if he sees its good business lol

Anon0000

Sully wrote: »

I believe they are not active cameras, as in lively watched. They are recording and can be used as evidence for a crime. So I was told anyway

Inside info says different lol. Apparently the plan is to eventually have someone watching them all the time but at the moment they're not been giving money to do so and so far the system has not been set up in the station yet so you have all these cameras after been put up for nothing-wat a waste of money!!!:mad:

Aquos76

Cabaal wrote: »

Their up since Mid summer 2008 with planning up since about April 2008, they are within the law and from what I understand are there to watch traffic and anything that may be considered a public order offense...thats why there are two around Rubys

That too was my understanding, but having since spoken to somebody within the traffic management dept in City Council, he informed me that they will have no access to these cameras. I thought this was a bit stupid at the cameras are situated at nearly every junction that has traffic lights in the city centre.

The cameras will be monitored from the Garda station in Ballybricken.

merlante

Anon0000 wrote: »

Inside info says different lol. Apparently the plan is to eventually have someone watching them all the time but at the moment they're not been giving money to do so and so far the system has not been set up in the station yet so you have all these cameras after been put up for nothing-wat a waste of money!!!:mad:

Doesn't matter what the plans are, plans can change. Again, assume they are recording all the time and the footage is being sent to your worst enemy, and posted on the internet. Once the technology is there, that's it. You have governments, councils and cops taking liberties and a nice big dose of incompetence, and the data gets out. Some kid will have it hacked and you'll have fights on youtube -- mark my words!

ziedth

They are not exactly filming us having sex though are they? I mean even if your right Merlante and the Footage does get leaked its not going to change any of our lives if big brother sees me eating a cold Kebab outside Istanbul.

JohnC.

Oh no, someone might see me in a public street.

RMD

Every time these debates come up theres always one argument that sums it up pretty well for the state

If you're not doing anything outside the lwa why does it bother you?

I feel much happier knowing that if a crime is committed against me or another person such as theft or assault the Gards can easily track the scumbag from a safe distance without the scum knowing it till the Gards on foot arrive.

mike65

ziedth wrote: »

They are not exactly filming us having sex though are they?

Depends where you partake I guess.

ziedth

mike65 wrote: »

Depends where you partake I guess.

To true,

I'll have to be more carefull with Mrs. Ziedth.

merlante

RMD wrote: »

Every time these debates come up theres always one argument that sums it up pretty well for the state

If you're not doing anything outside the lwa why does it bother you?

I feel much happier knowing that if a crime is committed against me or another person such as theft or assault the Gards can easily track the scumbag from a safe distance without the scum knowing it till the Gards on foot arrive.

Well, I mean, I presume you wouldn't extend this attitude to allowing people to film inside your house, or to filming your kids every day on the way to school (pretending for a moment that kids still walk to school)? It's a slippery slope, when you give an agency the right to record one thing, they end up recording a lot more.

The fact is that between CCTV footage, credit/cash card transactions, club card transactions, phone bills, etc., you could nearly reconstruct people's entire lives. A lot of this information ends up getting lost, stolen or sold, and can find its way into the hands of marketers and criminals.

Also, from a political theory point of view, it's not good for the government to gain too much power over the people. If we had to fight a war of independence now, how successful would it be? If oppressive regimes can put down resistance by tracking everyone using technology, that's not a good thing. You might more or less trust the Irish government with this data, which will eventually be accumulated in one place and analysed, but I don't.

The argument, "If you're not doing anything outside the law why does it bother you?" always intrigued me because it shows no sense on behalf of the person making the statement that they care about maintaining their own privacy or anonymity in public.

longshanks

ziedth wrote: »

To true,

I'll have to be more carefull with Mrs. Ziedth.

you're a man?

or a married lesbian

Asmodean

Calm down lads this doesn't mean the man in the high castle is spying on you for christ's sake. They're a deterrent for crime and assaults and the like, something which is sorely ****ing needed nowadays.
Couldn't give a rats arse about some 'conspiracy' to steal our lives. If someone I cared about is jumped by some little thug and such video evidence secured a conviction for the little **** then I am delighted these cameras are going up.

sunnysoutheast

The evidence from these cameras is often crucial in securing convictions for public order offences and more serious crimes, and IMHO their deployment is sorely overdue, if only to catch and punish the disgusting slobs who drop litter and let their dogs sh1t everywhere.

Whilst I can understand the arguments for civil liberty and privacy the evidence has shown, sadly, that a sizable and growing minority of people can't be trusted to behave legally or with any consideration towards others. The fact that public areas have to be monitored 24x7 is a direct result of this and is a sad reflection on society.

I don't believe there is any intention, or frankly the competence, for the government to put all of this into some sort of uber-database to track individuals. That's just paranoia.

SSE

ziedth

longshanks wrote: »

you're a man?

or a married lesbian

Well given the Choice

Back OT: I agree with Asmodean if CCTV puts a stop or slows down street crime then I'm all for it. I think we are a long way away from Cameras in our homes ETC.

merlante

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

The evidence from these cameras is often crucial in securing convictions for public order offences and more serious crimes, and IMHO their deployment is sorely overdue, if only to catch and punish the disgusting slobs who drop litter and let their dogs sh1t everywhere.

a) Do they actually work?
Some sources say they don't:
CCTV boom has not cut crime, says police chief
Times Online

b) Do you honestly think that the cops will police dog ****?

They cost a lot of money and it's arguable whether they even justify a fraction of it.

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Whilst I can understand the arguments for civil liberty and privacy the evidence has shown, sadly, that a sizable and growing minority of people can't be trusted to behave legally or with any consideration towards others. The fact that public areas have to be monitored 24x7 is a direct result of this and is a sad reflection on society.

Irelands murder rate is one of the lowest in Europe and is currently declining iirc.

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

I don't believe there is any intention, or frankly the competence, for the government to put all of this into some sort of uber-database to track individuals. That's just paranoia.

The thing about data is it's not just what can be done with it today but what can be done with it in the future as well. Anybody who has made any stupid comments under their real name, or a username that is traceable to their real name, on the internet will find out all about it in years to come if they run for office or apply for a senior job.

sunnysoutheast

Well if you read that article it's all about making better use of the images captured in an investigation and in court, not that CCTV itself has failed per se. If effective use is made of the technology, used as evidence to secure convictions, then it can justify its cost.

No I didn't think they were dogsh1t cameras, that was tongue-in-cheek.

Ireland's murder rate may be declining, but murder isn't the type of crime that CCTV is aimed at. No-one can argue that lower-level crime, such as antisocial behaviour, mugging, theft from cars, graffiti, etc. is going down.

I don't welcome their deployment any more than you, but I'm realistic about the need for them.

SSE

Asmodean

I wonder does even the sight of them act as a deterrant. I'd like to think they do but most of the yobs probably wouldn't even care.