Michael Vick Epic Fail

tallaghtoutlaws

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4015919

Second chance my ass keep him locked up :D:D

Sea Devils

I don't know exactly what the problem is?. Maybe they felt like he withdrew a bunch of money and is hiding it before he files bankruptcy

jdivision

Think the implication is he illegally took money from employees pension funds to pay his own debts.

LuckyLloyd

Wowsers. Knowing very little about US law, I have no idea whether such charges would lead to a prison sentence. And if they did - for what length of sentence you would be talking about.

His current prison term is completed in November of this year. Assuming he isn't reinstated for this season, and returns to league play in 2010 - he will be 30 when he next plays an NFL game. His representation in the ongoing personal bankruptcy case he filed have worked off the assumption that he will still be able to command earning power in the league when he gets out. It remains to be seen:

- whether the NFL allows him to play again (consider their handling of Pacman Jones);
- how three years of no (or significantly reduced in relative terms) activity have diminished his once great physical attributes;
- what role he can fill on an NFL roster and for how many future seasons;

We are close to being delivered another spectacular cautionary tale by an American athlete. Not that it's anything new. Vick would simply be the latest in a long line of American athletes to fall off the rails completely (Simpson, Conseco,Tyson, Travis Henry, et al).

To save himself, he probably needs to make himself useful in the NFL for another five or six years. To surround himself with a new circle who will keep him on the right track financially. And to keep his nose clean and maybe involve himself in some charity work, etc in a bid to salvage some public credibility. Of course the chances of all that happening are incredibly slim (an entourage of family and friends who depend on him for handouts of thousands a month don't help) and there is more fail to come out of this man's life yet.

tallaghtoutlaws

Sea Devils wrote: »

I don't know exactly what the problem is?. Maybe they felt like he withdrew a bunch of money and is hiding it before he files bankruptcy

Him filing bankruptcy doesnt affect that fund. He is accused of trying to withdraw it to help clear his own debts. Like I have been all along this guy should not be let anywhere near the league.

eagle eye

Again he deserves the same treatment as others. As Lloyd pointed out Pacman Jones got back in, we are just hearing stories surrounding one of the greatest and I always thought 'quiet gentleman' of the sport in Marvin Harrison. I mean its not like he is the only guy that has done something wrong. The pension thing is not really that big or suprising considering the mess he was in. Duress leads to other mistakes and thats what will be used should there be any criminal issues over this, you can add that he has spent time in prison since this happened and 'has seen the error of his ways' and they will use that as well. It won't make any difference to his current situtation I'd imagine.

I have no time for the man personally but he deserves the same chance given to others in fairness.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Again he deserves the same treatment as others. As Lloyd pointed out Pacman Jones got back in, we are just hearing stories surrounding one of the greatest and I always thought 'quiet gentleman' of the sport in Marvin Harrison. I mean its not like he is the only guy that has done something wrong. The pension thing is not really that big or suprising considering the mess he was in. Duress leads to other mistakes and thats what will be used should there be any criminal issues over this, you can add that he has spent time in prison since this happened and 'has seen the error of his ways' and they will use that as well. It won't make any difference to his current situtation I'd imagine.

I have no time for the man personally but he deserves the same chance given to others in fairness.

Funny thing is the league will eventually cop on and not forgive these guys so easy and Pacman is one example. Dude is still a mess and the Cowboys are not willing to give him any more chances by releasing him its a sign of things to come. These muppetts are no longer worth the money wasted on them.

You can take some guys out of the hood but you can never take the hood out of these guys. Some will never learn.

LuckyLloyd

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Funny thing is the league will eventually cop on and not forgive these guys so easy and Pacman is one example. Dude is still a mess and the Cowboys are not willing to give him any more chances by releasing him its a sign of things to come. These muppetts are no longer worth the money wasted on them.

You can take some guys out of the hood but you can never take the hood out of these guys. Some will never learn.

In fairness, if society deems that Vick has served an appropriate punishment and can be released to continue with his life, it wouldn't seem right if the NFL then denied him the opportunity to ply his trade (assuming there was an interest in his services). There was never any question of Vick being a bad influence within the Falcons organization during the period from when he was drafted to when he was incarcerated. He could get out, be a changed man, and go about the remainder of his career with his head down - dedicated to his profession.

Karlusss

It's not fair for the government to place restrictions on him playing in the NFL, no, but it's not an obligation for the NFL to allow him to be employed in their organisation either.

Let him play for Haslett in the UFL or whatever it's called.

TheHeadhunter

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Like I have been all along this guy should not be let anywhere near the league.

Why shouldn't he be allowed back into the NFL, he has served his time, he has taken his punishment and now should be reinstated straight away.

tallaghtoutlaws

TheHeadhunter wrote: »

Why shouldn't he be allowed back into the NFL, he has served his time, he has taken his punishment and now should be reinstated straight away.

Once a criminal always a criminal. I have argued this point before. The fact this new thing about him trying to take 1.5m away from a pension fund that isnt his is proof he can never change in my opinion. Pacman is the same. There are some guys out there that will just never learn. And Vick is one of them. I believe in second chances but some guys just can't be helped.

Vick is still in jail btw headhunter. He is serving 23 months and if im right gets out on July 20th.

Sea Devils

TheHeadhunter wrote: »

Why shouldn't he be allowed back into the NFL, he has served his time, he has taken his punishment and now should be reinstated straight away.

I agree with Tallaght on this. Really hope he doesnt come back to the NFL, theres not just the dog fighting or the Pension scndal , he obviously lied to the commish, was gambling, also he was caught smoking dope, the Miami airport fiasco etc Surely he has other possible bans to come?

Even if he was to come back would it not be more likely that he'd be a part of the UFL first as a springboard into the NFL?

Chucky the tree

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Once a criminal always a criminal. I have argued this point before. The fact this new thing about him trying to take 1.5m away from a pension fund that isnt his is proof he can never change in my opinion. Pacman is the same. There are some guys out there that will just never learn. And Vick is one of them. I believe in second chances but some guys just can't be helped.

Vick is still in jail btw headhunter. He is serving 23 months and if im right gets out on July 20th.

Do you mean once someone breaks the law that should be the nfl career over or if someone goes to jail?

tallaghtoutlaws

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Do you mean once someone breaks the law that should be the nfl career over or if someone goes to jail?

So easy to highlight something and take it out of context. What Im saying is I do believe in second chances but some people never change and I truly believe Vick will do something wrong again. The fact he is coming to the end of a 23 month sentence and then he trys to screw over a pension fund :rolleyes: The dude is going to fook up again if he ever makes the NFL again. Pacman Jones is another candidate for failure. Give them a second chance but the minute the throw that away turf them out. How many times does someone have to break the law before people realise they will never change. The NFL will do themselves no favours if Vick comes back and then gets caught up with the law again. No employer would put up with it. They will give you a chance after getting out of prison but break the law again and you will find your contract terminated very quickly.

Simple fact if this pension fund fraud is true and comes to light thats his entitlement for a second chance null and void.

frostie500

Sea Devils wrote: »

Even if he was to come back would it not be more likely that he'd be a part of the UFL first as a springboard into the NFL?

I think if, and lets face it-its a pretty big if, he gets the chance to play in the NFL again someone will take a chance on him pretty fast.
The wildcat gained a lot of success last year and teams will look to employ it in future. Vick is a perfect fit for the wildcat due to the fact he can run, pass and catch. Another reason he could get picked up is that the contract given him wont be too large due to the need of Vick to get some cash ASAP.
As a result a team can take on a former pro bowl quaterback for very little and see if he can play at a similar level to what he did in the past

Neil3030

Morality isn't going to come into it at the end of the day. If Vick can still play, someone will sign him provided he improves their team. My money's on the Seahawks..

tallaghtoutlaws

Problem is for Vick. No one will give him a large contract in fear he will do something stupid again and he will owe 6.5 to 7 million to the Falcons so he is going to want a contract that allows him cover his debt and still earn. So its up to ever stilll has cap room and the balls to risk it really. I just cant see anyone risking it.

Chucky the tree

Falcons tried to off-load him during the draft for a 7th rounder but no one took it.

tallaghtoutlaws

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Falcons tried to off-load him during the draft for a 7th rounder but no one took it.

Says it all really no one wants him.

Royal Seahawk

Neil3030 wrote: »

Morality isn't going to come into it at the end of the day. If Vick can still play, someone will sign him provided he improves their team. My money's on the Seahawks..

You don't know a whole lot about the Seahawks do you? While i believe Vick should be given a second chance( he's done the time for the crime) Seattle have this high morale ground position when it comes to troublesome players.
They never sign players like T.O. or Pacman Jones and couldn't get rid of Jeremy Stevens quick enough once he started acting crazy. There was even rumours about the future of Lofa Tatupu when he was caught drink driving last year.
I don't always agree with this stance but it is to be respected and at times it stops us looking desperate for a quick fix ala Buffalo Bills.

Neil3030

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

You don't know a whole lot about the Seahawks do you? While i believe Vick should be given a second chance( he's done the time for the crime) Seattle have this high morale ground position when it comes to troublesome players.
They never sign players like T.O. or Pacman Jones and couldn't get rid of Jeremy Stevens quick enough once he started acting crazy. There was even rumours about the future of Lofa Tatupu when he was caught drink driving last year.
I don't always agree with this stance but it is to be respected and at times it stops us looking desperate for a quick fix ala Buffalo Bills.

You're basing this on how many years with Jim Mora at the helm?

tallaghtoutlaws

Neil3030 wrote: »

You're basing this on how many years with Jim Mora at the helm?

He is basing his opinion on the organisation and not the coach. I have heard the same thing elsewhere about the Seahawks its an owners policy and club policy so Mora would be aware of this and would have been told about this when he signed his contract.

Royal Seahawk

No matter how much Mora might want him Tim Ruskell would never ever sanction such a move, its been a franchise policy as long as he's been general manager and will continue to be so.

Karlusss

I really can't think of a team who'd want him. Everyone says "someone will take him", but who? The Raiders?

The Rams would be a team in need of inspiration, and I can't see them touching him. Teams like the Seahawks don't want that near them. The only chance is a team that has an incredibly strong locker room and just wants him for special packages. But who?

eagle eye

The one guy I could see taking him is Mangini.

Wouldn't it be funny, imagine if he had a great game.


'Dawg pound hail King Vick':pac:

Neil3030

Royal Seahawk wrote: »

No matter how much Mora might want him Tim Ruskell would never ever sanction such a move, its been a franchise policy as long as he's been general manager and will continue to be so.

Well as Seahawks fan I obviously hope you're right, but I'd never EVER be naive enough to rule out the possibility of an organisation deviating from their longterm gameplan on occasion. There will always be a coach, somewhere, who thinks he can be the one who can change a loose cannon and as long as Vick is still physically capable he will find a club, just hopefully not in the North West. That steal of a deal with Denver will mean we have a high pick next year with which to claim a hot prospect QB so if there's a bob in heaven that'll be where Mora is focusing his attention.

tallaghtoutlaws

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well as Seahawks fan I obviously hope you're right, but I'd never EVER be naive enough to rule out the possibility of an organisation deviating from their longterm gameplan on occasion. There will always be a coach, somewhere, who thinks he can be the one who can change a loose cannon and as long as Vick is still physically capable he will find a club, just hopefully not in the North West. That steal of a deal with Denver will mean we have a high pick next year with which to claim a hot prospect QB so if there's a bob in heaven that'll be where Mora is focusing his attention.

I wouldnt say it would be naive to believe the Seahawks will stick to their guns on their policies. Its more of a policy than a gameplan that the Seahags have and Mora would be well aware of it and quite possible told already forget about wanting to bring Vick there if he ever thought about it.

eagle eye

I was just reading that the Humane society of America have reached out to Vick and it looks like he will take them up on their offer. That means he will be back in the NFL by the end of his sentence.

Rented Mule

Michael Vick's homecoming will be a bittersweet return to an old reality that led to one of the most dramatic downfalls in the history of sports. As he arrives back in Newport News after a year and a half in prison, Vick might want to ask himself some questions.



The latest on Vick from ESPN.com