BBC Formula 1 coverage

enzo7

maybe im just an f1 geek but i love all the technical stuff, and i do belive the great drivers do make a diff, the prob now since schumacher retired is there is no great drivers in f1.im sorry nothing against button but if he does become world champ it just proves f1 now as nothing to do with a drivers talent. when i hear people say the schumacher yrs were boreing ect. i really cant understand its how can watching such an incrediable talent be boreing. i do love all the tec stuff but if it came down to technical genius or driver genius i rather it be about driver genius. but that not f1 is about anymore.

Slutmonkey57b

The success of the Button and the drop in performance of Ferrari since the golden 3 left shows you one simple thing: even Schumacher is of minor importance compared to Todt and Brawn. Remember how well Schuey's genius driving did in the first 3 *years* at Ferrari while Brawn was still weeding out the useless italian engineers? That's right - nothing.
How well is Kimi (hardly a slouch of a driver) doing in Ferrari when the engineers left? See for yourself. This is not new. if you want to go back to an era where it was all about the drivers you need to go back about 40 or 50 years.

11811

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Remember how well Schuey's genius driving did in the first 3 *years* at Ferrari while Brawn was still weeding out the useless italian engineers? That's right - nothing.

Er would hardly call 2nd in the Drivers Championship in 97 and 98 nothing, along with some remarkable wins like Monza in 98 and spa 97...

anyway back to the BBC, - yeah not sure about Eddie, seems to come out some strange ones, I never really liked Colthard, but he seems good at the pundit malarcky

enzo7

or hungary "98" how could you even think that was anything but driver talent that won that day or his 2nd in spain "94", or his first ferrari win there on "96". to say he achieved nothing in the first 3yrs at ferrari is rubbish. :rolleyes:. kimi isnt even in the same league as schumacher so to compare them isnt really fair to kimi. even my dad who as been a life long f1 fan hasnt watched a race live in a yr as he said even when f1 is bad there was always a schumacher/senna type driver to pull a performance out of no where, you dont have that now so if you dont understand or care about the technical stuff there isnt much to get excited about. you could argue its great to see button/vettel winning and ya its always nice to see the nice guys do well but is that enough to keep the renewed intrest in f1???

sorrry i know i went off the topic by a mile!!

Joneser

The problem with kimi is this, i think he is one of the fastest drivers on the grid, but he has no commitment to the sport, unlike schumacher who used to spend so much time practicing entering and exiting the pits to try do it as quick as possible, as well as spending nights in the garage with his mechanics working out the best setup and strategies, now everytime i see raikkonen out driving each weekend, i get the impression he is just out for a sunday drive, he just doesnt seem to care.

vectra

Joneser wrote: »

The problem with kimi is this, i think he is one of the fastest drivers on the grid, but he has no commitment to the sport, unlike schumacher who used to spend so much time practicing entering and exiting the pits to try do it as quick as possible, as well as spending nights in the garage with his mechanics working out the best setup and strategies, now everytime i see raikkonen out driving each weekend, i get the impression he is just out for a sunday drive, he just doesnt seem to care.

3 words this year.

"BAN ON PRACTICE"

RayM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Remember how well Schuey's genius driving did in the first 3 *years* at Ferrari while Brawn was still weeding out the useless italian engineers? That's right - nothing.

He won three races in the horribly slow 1996 Ferrari (in which Irvine scored 11 points). The '97 car was still a million miles behind the Williams (and, arguably, the Benetton), yet he came very close to winning the championship. In 1998, the McLaren was vastly superior, yet Schumacher still brought it down to the wire. In 1999, he would almost definitely have won (in a car which was still inferior to the McLaren), had he not broken his leg. His contribution in those early years can hardly be described as 'nothing'.

enzo7 wrote: »

the prob now since schumacher retired is there is no great drivers in f1.im sorry nothing against button but if he does become world champ it just proves f1 now as nothing to do with a drivers talent. when i hear people say the schumacher yrs were boreing ect. i really cant understand its how can watching such an incrediable talent be boreing. i do love all the tec stuff but if it came down to technical genius or driver genius i rather it be about driver genius. but that not f1 is about anymore.

I think it became boring for a while because there was a sense of inevitability going into every race that Schumacher was almost guaranteed to win. Watching him drive a great, bullet-proof car was never as exciting as watching him wringing the neck of a car that really didn't deserve to win. There are still a couple of great (and potentially great) drivers out there. Alonso, for instance, is one of those drivers who unexpectedly can pull a great result out of the bag. Unpopular as it is to say this, I think Hamilton could also well go down as one of the greats... I'm not sure about Button, but I think he's more worthy than Hill or Villeneuve, and about as worthy as Hakkinen (another man who took a long time to fulfil his potential).

vectra

RayM wrote: »

Alonso, for instance, is one of those drivers who unexpectedly can pull a great result out of the bag. Unpopular as it is to say this, I think Hamilton could also well go down as one of the greats... I'm not sure about Button, but I think he's more worthy than Hill or Villeneuve, and about as worthy as Hakkinen (another man who took a long time to fulfil his potential).

I dont know why everyone is getting all excited about Alonso..
Fair enough.. he is a good driver.. One of the best out there.. But to be fair he hasnt really done anything exciting when not in a top car... He may have wont a few races..came second in a few etc.. But havent most of the top runners all done the same??

As for Hamilton..
I still fail to see his sheer genius that everyone is on about.. He must have went off track last weekend 3 times as much as any other driver.:rolleyes:

He only made up one place in the race.. whats so exciting about that?

enzo7

RayM wrote: »

I think it became boring for a while because there was a sense of inevitability going into every race that Schumacher was almost guaranteed to win. Watching him drive a great, bullet-proof car was never as exciting as watching him wringing the neck of a car that really didn't deserve to win. There are still a couple of great (and potentially great) drivers out there. Alonso, for instance, is one of those drivers who unexpectedly can pull a great result out of the bag. Unpopular as it is to say this, I think Hamilton could also well go down as one of the greats... I'm not sure about Button, but I think he's more worthy than Hill or Villeneuve, and about as worthy as Hakkinen (another man who took a long time to fulfil his potential).

ya i kinda see what you mean 4sure the wins he had to fight for were more enjoyable, i do think alonso is a very very good driver and has improved so much since he won his titles he is the nearest thing to the complete package in f1 now. hamilton is a good driver too but id put him more in hakkinens league he deserved his championship last yr but dont see him winning another, as for button his a very ordinary driver who has landed on his feet dis yr but if he does win the title then well done its a fantastic result and you cant take that away from him. vettel has the most potential if he fulfills that now is another thing but i hope he does.

Slutmonkey57b

What's the difference between 96 and 97?

Brawn and Byrne arrived. Oh, and he failed in one of his numerous attempts to win by cheating.

I'm not saying drivers don't make a difference - they do, but only in terms of how much they get out of the car compared to their team mate - any other comparison is effectively meaningless.

Hamilton has shown incredible raw talent - in his third season in a drenched track where people were aquaplaning all over the place, he went slightly off track 3 times, and recovered every time, in a poorly handling car. People said he was only winning because of the car he was in - this year, he's thumping his teammate and dragging the car along with him. If you don't see that then you're not watching the races.

Oblomov

Alonso, very good as long as every thing is going his way, inclined to through his toys out of the pram at times.. more settled since he got married...or at least settled down with his other half..
I'm iclined to think that the friendship with Flavio helps a great deal.

Button, very talented, very very smooth in the car, his lines round corners, not hacksawing at the wheel.. ... could go on to be a strong contender as opposition to Hamilton..

Vettel, also very good, very laid back and unaffected by the lime light.

Europe next and more and different parts for the cars and a gap between GPs.... can only be good..

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

I dont know why everyone is getting all excited about Alonso..
Fair enough.. he is a good driver.. One of the best out there.. But to be fair he hasnt really done anything exciting when not in a top car... He may have wont a few races..came second in a few etc.. But havent most of the top runners all done the same??

As for Hamilton..
I still fail to see his sheer genius that everyone is on about.. He must have went off track last weekend 3 times as much as any other driver.:rolleyes:

He only made up one place in the race.. whats so exciting about that?

alonso isnt a great driver but his the best out there. as for hamilton im with you on that one i just cant see it. i think too many people listened to james allen

enzo7

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Oh, and he failed in one of his numerous attempts to win by cheating.


People said he was only winning because of the car he was in - this year, he's thumping his teammate and dragging the car along with him. If you don't see that then you're not watching the races.

the "cheat" still retired a 7 times world champion and he deserves credit for that

well the races ive been watching he hasnt been winning, as for his teammate his nothing to rave about, but well done to him anyway.

huzy06

I really enjoy the BBC coverage. Its very thorough. But I think that they should have brought James Allen as well as Martin Brundell. The other guy seem to know very little about the sport and is always making mistakes

vectra

huzy06 wrote: »

I think that they should have brought James Allen as well as Martin Brundell.

*Ahem*
Do I take it you miss all the Hamilton Hype?? :rolleyes:

huzy06

vectra wrote: »

*Ahem*
Do I take it you miss all the Hamilton Hype?? :rolleyes:

No far from it but besides that he had a savage knowledge of F1. And in my opinion I could live with the Hamilton hype in return for his in depth commentary

vectra

huzy06 wrote: »

I could live with the Hamilton hype

Noooooooooooooooooo....!!

Please god spare our ears

smooch71

enzo7 wrote: »

alonso isnt a great driver but his the best out there. as for hamilton im with you on that one i just cant see it. i think too many people listened to james allen

Alonso's not a great driver?

What sport are you watching?

Dcully

huzy06 wrote: »

I really enjoy the BBC coverage. Its very thorough. But I think that they should have brought James Allen as well as Martin Brundell. The other guy seem to know very little about the sport and is always making mistakes

You must be joking right?
Allen was a complete moron.

If you ever watch Friday and Saturday practice via the red button you are treated to a different commentator, the guy of bbc radio 5 i believe, he is way better than the current quali and race commentator.

enzo7 LOL Alonso is a superb driver and easily in the top 3 F1 drivers at the moment.

enzo7

Dcully wrote: »

enzo7 LOL Alonso is a superb driver and easily in the top 3 F1 drivers at the moment.

yes i agree as i said i think alonso is the best driver in f1 right now and apart from massa there isnt anyone i rather see win races and do well and i hope his at ferrari nxt yr. he is a very very good driver not yet a great one but thats just my option. the only great drivers ive been old enough to see race were prost,senna + schumacher i just dont think his in there league yet ,maybe he will be in time.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

yes i agree as i said i think alonso is the best driver in f1 right now and apart from massa there isnt anyone i rather see win races and do well and i hope his at ferrari nxt yr. he is a very very good driver not yet a great one but thats just my option. the only great drivers ive been old enough to see race were prost,senna + schumacher i just dont think his in there league yet ,maybe he will be in time.

You do realise that Alonso is the only one to knock Schumacher off his pedesatl?
Does that not say anything about alonso? :cool:

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

You do realise that Alonso is the only one to knock Schumacher off his pedesatl?

he beat him to one title so did villenuve + hakkinen so should we add all of them to the greats list too. to me a great driver is someone we will be talking about in 10/20 yrs time i just dont tink ill be talking about alonso unless he joins ferrari and win the title nxt yr:D

why do you think alonso should be considered a great driver? not been smart or anything just trying to figure out what people see in him that i dont.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

he beat him to one title

I thought it was two??
2005
2006

enzo7 wrote: »

to me a great driver is someone we will be talking about in 10/20 yrs time i just dont tink ill be talking about alonso unless he joins ferrari and win the title nxt yr:D

why do you think alonso should be considered a great driver? not been smart or anything just trying to figure out what people see in him that i dont.

Alonso would have been wc in 2007 and possibly 2008 had he not been pushed to one side while Daddy Ron cuddled little baby Lewis .

In other words if he had got fair treatment at McLaren he would possibly have stayed there and won both years.

Reason i think he is a good driver is simple.

Kimi is fast when the car is right

Lewis is a charger and will charge in any gap without a care in the world if that gap is too small or not.

Alonso is a wiley old fox.. calm and calculated. Gets the most out of his cars.

EvilMonkey

vectra wrote: »

You do realise that Alonso is the only one to knock Schumacher off his pedesatl?
Does that not say anything about alonso? :cool:

Only after multiple rule changes designed to stop him winning. :eek:

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Only after multiple rule changes designed to stop him winning. :eek:

Yeah like the rule saying he got less points for winning races. And who could forget the classic moment before each race when a team was drawn at random and allowed to smash up his his car.
Sometimes I get a hankering for the old days.

smooch71

Dcully wrote: »

You must be joking right?
Allen was a complete moron.

If you ever watch Friday and Saturday practice via the red button you are treated to a different commentator, the guy of bbc radio 5 i believe, he is way better than the current quali and race commentator.

enzo7 LOL Alonso is a superb driver and easily in the top 3 F1 drivers at the moment.

Point 1. Couldn't agree more

Point 2. You can also listen to the 5 live commentary team during the race through the red button (and there's a kids commentary too!)

Point 3. Couldn't agree more

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

I dont know why everyone is getting all excited about Alonso..
Fair enough.. he is a good driver.. One of the best out there.. But to be fair he hasnt really done anything exciting when not in a top car... He may have wont a few races..came second in a few etc.. But havent most of the top runners all done the same

he doesnt sound like a great driver to me:rolleyes:

as for his 2005 title he beat kimi to that title, and a great driver doesnt get pushed aside by some young kid:rolleyes:

smooch71

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah like the rule saying he got less points for winning races. And who could forget the classic moment before each race when a team was drawn at random and allowed to smash up his his car.
Sometimes I get a hankering for the old days.

Brilliant!

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

as for his 2005 title he beat kimi to that title,:

Renault were probably the most reliable car then
Remember all the let downs Kimi had?

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

Renault were probably the most reliable car then
Remember all the let downs Kimi had?

exactly what so great about beating a guy in a unreliable car?? anyway that wasnt my point . but i still think alonso is the best driver in f1 right now just not a "great", you dont think he is either so i really dont get why u are arguering about something to u dont even believe urself

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

exactly what so great about beating a guy in a unreliable car?? anyway that wasnt my point . but i still think alonso is the best driver in f1 right now just not a "great", you dont think he is either so i really dont get why u are arguering about something to u dont even believe urself

Just because he beat Kimi while in a better car does not mean he is not a GREAT driver.. Of course he is

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

Just because he beat Kimi while in a better car does not mean he is not a GREAT driver.. Of course he is

your the one who brought up the 2005 title as a bases why alonso is such a good driver which may i add i never said he wasnt! you also posted and argument 2 days ago on why alonso isnt a "great driver" what has changed in 2 days???

in my option alonso isnt a great driver yet maybe he will become one before he retires. i know some people think his a great driver already and that fine it there options and they believe in that ,you dont so i really dont see what your points is

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

your the one who brought up the 2005 title as a bases why alonso is such a good driver which may i add i never said he wasnt! you also posted and argument 2 days ago on why alonso isnt a "great driver" what has changed in 2 days???

in my option alonso isnt a great driver yet maybe he will become one before he retires. i know some people think his a great driver already and that fine it there options and they believe in that ,you dont so i really dont see what your points is

He was the first one to beat Schumacher that was in 2005

I said he was a great driver
I never said he was the best driver.

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

He was the first one to beat Schumacher that was in 2005
.

well damon hill actually was but sure we will give alonso the credit for it since his such a great driver :rolleyes:

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

well damon hill actually was but sure we will give alonso the credit for it since his such a great driver :rolleyes:

Ahem
Damon Hill did it once at the beginning of Schu's career ( decent part of his career )
Alonso did it twice ( In the days of Schumachers Dominance )
Nuff said :rolleyes:

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

Ahem
Damon Hill did it once at the beginning of Schu's career

for the recorded schumacher made his debut in "91", hill won the title in "96" hardly the beginning of his career:rolleyes:. anyway this argument is gone beyond stupid at this stage so im going to be the bigger person and bow out now, lets just leave it at i think alonso is a very good driver not a great one yet! and you think well im not actually sure what u think as you argue with everyone over thing they post and i actually dont care at this stage, good evening.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

for the recorded schumacher made his debut in "91", hill won the title in "96" hardly the beginning of his career:rolleyes:.

oh for Christ Sakes...!!
Why is it that almost every poster scours through posts here to pick out that ONE WORD and then try to pounce on the op with it

For gods sake man, wake up and read my post
I specifically put in brackets ( Decent part of his career )
I know, (as I am sure almost everyone that heard of him) Schumacher started his carerr in 91 with a single drive from Eddie Jordan ( oops Should that be Eddy or is Eddie, Somone will correct me no doupt :rolleyes: )

I am so sick of nitpickers on this forum
At times you would want a solicitor to proof read a post before Hitting the Reply button

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

For gods sake man

why do you persume im a man:D
anyway as i said this is beyond stupid now can we call it a truce! sorry if i "nitpicked" wasnt intended. we have totally hijacked this thread can we go back to talking bout what a muppet james allen is we can atleast agree on that cant we:D

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

why do you persume im a man:D
anyway as i said this is beyond stupid now can we call it a truce! sorry if i "nitpicked" wasnt intended. we have totally hijacked this thread can we go back to talking bout what a muppet james allen is we can atleast agree on that cant we:D

Good thinking batman ( woman) ?:D

James Allen is a muppet.:cool:

mike65

The beeb really struck lucky with this years Brawn team success - Hamilton nowhere yesterdays hero, so arise Sir Jensen of Button.

Oblomov

Jensen Button is like the ugly bird at school, nobody wants to befriend her or be seen with her, then a fabulous makeover and everyone wants to be friends and forgets the previous x number of years....All he has to do is keep winning.

enzo7

Oblomov wrote: »

Jensen Button is like the ugly bird at school, nobody wants to befriend her or be seen with her, then a fabulous makeover and everyone wants to be friends and forgets the previous x number of years....All he has to do is keep winning.

agree

EvilMonkey

Oblomov wrote: »

Jensen Button is like the ugly bird at school, nobody wants to befriend her or be seen with her, then a fabulous makeover and everyone wants to be friends and forgets the previous x number of years....All he has to do is keep winning.

I think people are just happier to see him winning than Hamilton!

thebman

Oblomov wrote: »

Jensen Button is like the ugly bird at school, nobody wants to befriend her or be seen with her, then a fabulous makeover and everyone wants to be friends and forgets the previous x number of years....All he has to do is keep winning.

I think ITV's coverage made people dislike him and that he has grown up a lot since he has been driving sub par cars and not been ITV's favorite boy.

He has a respect for the fans and knows that the media will only be there as long as the results are there.

This is a grown up Button which is why he much more liked IMO. Also everyone wants to see Brawn do well.

I felt bad for Barichello today though. I always liked the guy and I hope he does get a few wins this year and maybe even challenges Button for the title although that is unlikely I think based on results so far he just isn't as quick. He certainly deserves a few good results. He has played number 2 for long enough and deserves a shot but I don't know if he'll get it.

Brawn did say that they were no driver preferences at the team today on BBC so we'll see if that is only because it is early in the season which I suspect it is.

robinph

Who is this "Fettel" chap that the BBC anchor bloke keeps on talking about, think he might be a Red Bull driver from the way he talks about him, but nobody else talks about a driver with that name.

Also noticed today that he was calling Brundles co-commentator "Leg-Hard" for some reason, again completely different to what everyone else calls him.

thebman wrote: »

Brawn did say that they were no driver preferences at the team today on BBC so we'll see if that is only because it is early in the season which I suspect it is.

But then his next line was that they wanted Barichello to win today, not Button. Just the way things worked out a 1 -2 is good any which way in the end.

dsmythy

robinph wrote: »

Who is this "Fettel" chap that the BBC anchor bloke keeps on talking about, think he might be a Red Bull driver from the way he talks about him, but nobody else talks about a driver with that name.

I think in the German language the letter 'V' can sound like the letter 'F' when spoken. Still if you're speaking English saying Vettel is probably best.

dsmythy

Am i the first to say this?

For the BBC's sake and our own (bar Button fans i guess) i'd rather he didn't win the next race, for competition sake.

enzo7

dsmythy wrote: »

I think in the German language the letter 'V' can sound like the letter 'F' when spoken.

ya that true. like when say say michael they pronounce it mickel.

robinph

Yeah, when a new driver appears with a furriner sounding name it generally takes the various commentators a while before they all start saying the names the same way, or more sensibly someone just asks the person themselves how to say the name. Kubica being one that went through a few variations a couple of years ago. I thought that everyone had figured out how to say Vettles name by now though but then this guy comes along as if he has some new insight as to how to pronounce it.

Don't care how they say it, it's just very odd to listen to DC taking about one guy and then the other chap going on about the same bloke but with a different with a different name.

Guess the coverage isn't that bad on the beeb if thats the best complaint I can come up with? They could do with shutting up Jordan at times though.

Slutmonkey57b

Eddie Jordan was brilliant this weekend and really earned his place on the talking heads group. He called things like he saw them, used his experience, asked useful questions and didn't waffle. Jake, Eddie and DC are making a great team as I thought they would when I first saw them. Eddie and DC talking about Kimi and Hamilton was forthright, clear, and well thought out.

Legard still needs to shut up and let Brundle talk though.