Legal standing on international flights?

actuallylike

Hey all,
On a recent flight to America, I got wondering what is the legal standing of the people on the flight? For instance, if a 20 year old flies from Ireland to America, which country's laws come into force regarding drinking alcohol? 18 to drink in Ireland, 21 in America, so is it the law from the country you left from or the country you're going to or maybe the airline's coriginal country? The drinking age is the only example I could think of but there may be more? Just a curious wondering I had, the air steward was completely clueless when I asked him!

EC1000

Why should you be subject to either? If you are over international waters then surely that is the jurisdiction that you are subject to.

This is just off the top of my head - there may be international codes of conduct or such like which actually govern this!

mickoneill30

EC1000 wrote: »

This is just off the top of my head - there may be international codes of conduct or such like which actually govern this!

There are. I can't remember them. I got trained in them ages ago and they weren't really relevant to my job so they went in one ear and out the other.

I think it might be the jurisdiction of the country the plane is registered in. Don't quote me on that.

To be honest a cabin crew should know this info off the top of his head and they do get trained in it. They really need to know this info.

partyguinness

The Warsaw Convention 1929 is a good start.

This area is called the Law of Conflicts.

mickoneill30

Ah found it.

http://www.icao.int/icao/en/nr/1962/pio196214_e.pdf

"The general principles of the draft convention are that in relation to offences
committed on an aircraft all the parties to the convention will recognize the criminal
jurisdiction of the country in which the aircraft is registered, and that the state of
registration will establish its jurisdiction for prosecuting the offender."

As to whether they'll let an 18 year old drink on an Aer Lingus flight from New York. I've no clue. I presume they can stop anybody from drinking on a flight. So if you're 18 and acting like an adult you'll probably get it. If your 30 and acting like a nob I don't think they care about your date of birth

ArphaRima

Warsaw convention, Tokyo Convention, Montreal Convention, Chicago Convention... So many
State of overfly, state of registry, and state of arrival all have limited jurisdiction. While airborne you are subject to the conventions and the captains discretion is final.

It's like being on a ship in 1740. Do what you're told.

Hogzy

What happens if you are born on a plane transatlantic!

Apart from your parents passports, are you entitled to a passport of the country the plane is registered in?

ArphaRima

apart from your parents passports, are you entitled to a passport of the country the plane is registered in?

grey area. usually the port of disembarkation is used. But only because you mainly hear of it when they are immigrants looking for asylum in the EU or US.

A certificate from a doctor is required for any pregnant women in her 3rd trimester I believe.

r14

Before the Constitutional citizenship amendment if you were born on an Irish registered plane or ship you were an Irish citizen. This is because the plane or ship is like a little bit of Irish soil and so if born there you were born in the "State".

Now that the Constitution has changed you won't get citizenship but you're still on Irish soil.

That said just because the plane/ship is Irish doesn't mean other countries don't have jurisdiction (have a look at the Lotus case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_case)

ArphaRima

That said just because the plane/ship is Irish doesn't mean other countries don't have jurisdiction

International Air Transport is covered by the pre and postwar conventions above. They have separate rules governing jurisdiction. Case in point would be something like Lockerbie.
Scotland have obvious rights. USA also. However Libya also had a case to be made for rights of jurisdiction.
The world court then claimed jurisdiction. Go figure.

r14

Don't you just love International Law. Basically everyone claims jurisdiction and then ignores the ruling. Makes it so much fun to study

Victor

Hogzy wrote: »

What happens if you are born on a plane transatlantic!

You get thrown in the toilet bin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1163247/Woman-abandoned-newborn-baby-planes-toilet-rubbish-bin-faces-jail--custody-child.html

Hooch

I believe.....and i can most certainly be corrected as i am not a solicitor but a Garda......that planes flying from Ireland run with Irish law. Planes flying from USA run with their state law. That why the bar closes half hour from touch down as you are over the destination airports country.

This is my understanding on it from talking to people. I have nothing to back it up and dont want to lead anyone astray.

ArphaRima

Ok but definitively; onboard Irish registered aircraft (doors closed) Irish law applies regardless of their position in the world. (This includes any amendments to the Air Navigation Act, which would differ from Irish civil and criminal law). They must also comply with the laws of the state of overfly/passage. In most cases the laws of the state of overfly would be special aviation related laws rather than the states normal civil and criminal laws.

However once the flight has dispatched, discretion of the Commander (captain) under the Tokyo convention 1963 applies. This empowers him to use any means to restrain a passenger or protect an aircraft, the passengers, crew or "good order". (an offence need not have taken place, only that he deemed it might)

He then can if he wishes divert to a place of his choice where the pax may or may not be charged under local law, after which that pax will also be liable to prosecution under Irish law.

http://www.mcgill.ca/files/iasl/tokyo1963.pdf

In other words if you commit an offence onboard, the captain may choose to have you restrained and divert to.. lets say pakistan.. where you will face charges under local law for that offence. You will still be liable under Irish law also.

Our man in Havana

I do know that airlines do not serve alcohol whilst a flight is over The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The bar closes when the captain tells the crew that they are in Saudi airspace and reopens when they are clear of Saudi airspace.

Victor

nice guy always wrote: »

That why the bar closes half hour from touch down as you are over the destination airports country.

I imagine thats more a housekeeing issue.

Our man in Havana

Victor wrote: »

I imagine thats more a housekeeing issue.

Partly the reason. Also the bar has to be sealed for customs before it lands.

Aprilsunshine

Bond-007 wrote: »

I do know that airlines do not serve alcohol whilst a flight is over The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The bar closes when the captain tells the crew that they are in Saudi airspace and reopens when they are clear of Saudi airspace.

I'm not sure how true that is on some airlines. Flying over Saudi they do serve drinks but if there is a stop off there, even a brief one then all drinks will be removed and hidden from the officials who board the plane and look for alcohol. Quite intimidating but air stewards are used to dealing with it now.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Aer Lingus' cabin crew informs you that smoking on the aircraft is an offense and tampering with the smoke detector in the toilet is also an offense and could lead to prosecution.

I don't know if it's under Irish law that you'd be prosecuted though.

Irish Ferries only accept Sterling on their Dublin-Holyhead route. Or at least they used to, so perhaps as someone said it's a case of "do what you're told".