Recession: What can negativity add?

NewDubliner

jmayo wrote: »

whilst the private sector workers are looking at no pensions.

None? Certain about that?

jimmmy

jmayo wrote: »

Ah yes lets all pay huge taxes so that the inefficient public sector workers can continue to enjoy payrises and retired civil servants can have a nice defined pension whilst the private sector workers are looking at no pensions.

I have no problem paying higher taxes, if I know it is going to help a hospital patient get a bed, an early operation, a young girl get a cervical cancer vacination or if it is used to help educate a young child with special needs.
But I do have a big f***ing problem, if it is just going into the pot to pay for some unneeded admin staff to saunder around a hospital or HSE office appearing to look busy, whilst they kick their heels until retirment age comes around. :mad:

I agree 100%. Many a non public servant is looking at having lost most or all of their meagre savings for retirement. If they invested in a buy to let apartment, as was encouraged by the govt through section 27 etc, they are more than likely looking at an empty property / negative equity. If they bought bank shares ...blue chip they were told ....

jmayo

NewDubliner wrote: »

None? Certain about that?

Oh I forgot sure we will get the non contributory, after we can sell off and spend anything we managed to own after 40 odd years of working.

How many in private sector will get deifned benefit pension, 1.5 times annual salary tax free or almost tax free on retirement ?
Please enlighten us.

PS my pension lost over 65% last year, how would you like that to happen to your pension plans?
BTW do you work in public sector ?
If you do work in public sector then I and all the other private sector workers will make sure you don't have to worry your little head about anything like that happening to your pension.
Comforting isn't it :rolleyes:

smallBiscuit

All, you've missed the point of this thread, be upbeat. So .....

Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad,
Other things just make you swear and curse,
When you're chewing life's gristle,
Don't grumble,
Give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best.
And...

Always look on the bright side of life.
[whistle]
Always look on the light side of life.
[whistle]

If life seems jolly rotten,
There's something you've forgotten,
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps,
Don't be silly chumps.
Just purse your lips and whistle.
That's the thing.
And...

Always look on the bright side of life.
[whistle]
Always look on the right side of life,
[whistle]

For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word.
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin.
Give the audience a grin.
Enjoy it. It's your last chance, anyhow.
So,...

Always look on the bright side of death,
[whistle]
Just before you draw your terminal breath.
[whistle]

Life's a piece of ****,
When you look at it.
Life's a laugh and death's a joke it's true.
You'll see it's all a show.
Keep 'em laughing as you go.
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And...

Always look on the bright side of life.
Always look on the right side of life.
[whistle]

Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]

NewDubliner

jmayo wrote: »

Oh I forgot sure we will get the non contributory, after we can sell off and spend anything we managed to own after 40 odd years of working.

You stated that private sector workers would have not pensions at all. AFAIK, most private sector workers pay full PRSI and will be entitled to, at least, the social welfare contributory pension. Please get your facts right.

It's very unfortunate that your investments have lost 65%. I hope they'll recover over time. I also hope, the money is invested ethically, and not for example, in property ventures profitting from selling over-priced houses to young couples. I hear that business is not going so well.

jmayo wrote: »

I and all the other private sector workers will make sure you don't have to worry your little head about anything like that happening to your pension. Comforting isn't it :rolleyes:

You invest money to make provision for your pension. The investment appreciates. At whose expense does it appreciate? Who pays for your salary: your customers, the people who buy stuff off you or who engage your services.

gurramok

bobbbb wrote: »

Stop scare mongering. The IMF will not be in here.

The problem is not the public sector.
Its that we dont take enough tax at the moment.
Its that we as a nation of people are not willing to all pay enough tax between us to get us out of this.
We all want others to take a higher share of the burden than ourselves.
This whole situation would be quite easily sorted out by everyone taking a large tax hike for a couple of years.
The answer is so simple, but in everyone scramble to get others to take a higher share of the burden than themselves, nobody is willing to take an equal share of enough of a hit to do the job properly.

If we al took a substantial tax it, yes spending would fall for a while. But people would get used to it. PRices would drop eventually enough to entice peopleback to spending. Everyones income would drop by the same percentage.

It ain't scaremongering. Sand listed why this post is silly. Let me tell you some numbers.
We take in €34bn in revenue according to latest estimate
We spend €55bn according to last years total.

None of these figures will change substantially year on year unless something dramatic is done as the economy is domestically strangled because of a housing bubble.

That's 21bn out of whack. Your plan is to hike taxes for everyone. Do you not realise what that would entail?
Yes some taxes are low and could be raised but it will come nowhere near 21bn. Consumer spending is in freefall, if you are going to tax everyone that means they will have less take home pay to spend on stuff plus they have NI to shop in, and that means even less revenue for the govt which in turn have to borrow more to pay for public based bills.

All this leads to a downward spiral 80's style of borrowing and there will be a day when the international financial markets will say to Ireland, where is your economic recovery plan to pay these borrowings back?

That my friend, is when an IMF/EU/whatever bailout will be on the cards and they will slash public expenditure. Just look at Latvia/Hungary for example.

thebman

People are kicking up a fuss because nobody likes negative change.

People are fighting their corners to try to hold on to as much as they have by declaring they shouldn't take cuts, can't someone else do it?

People are being people. Shock horror!